HPally stole my role!!!

85 Blood Elf Paladin
8600
This was an utterly pathetic thread on the other forums. I'm not sure why you subjected us to your outdated information. If you actually knew the current beta talent trees, you'd realize most of what you posted isn't even what's there anymore.


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
11145
You want the Aspects of the Paladin class?
THEN TAKE THEM. :p
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
BUR
7210
lol. have you even raided as disc? holy paladin mastery absorbs don't even come close.
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85 Worgen Priest
3845
I honestly rerolled a paladin and currently gearing it. Did a little pros and cons list, didn't end well in my priest's favor =/
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9110
You want the Aspects of the Paladin class?
THEN TAKE THEM. :p


LOL'd IRL
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
BUR
7210
LOL'd IRL
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80 Draenei Paladin
5800
However, I've only played at 80 and can't tell you what the absorbs are like at 85 but from what I've read it's not much different, and it seems like our mastery is garbage as well, especially seen as it doesn't improve our heal but rather improves the proc rate. They took away my absolute favorite spell in the world, Sacred Shield, which was actually pretty good as far as absorbs go.


I'd like to correct you here since I've seen at least one other person with this misconception, maybe other have it too. Our mastery does not have a proc rate. Every heal you have places a shield on the target. In fact, the only limiting factor on our shields is that they don't stack. Currently on beta, I think on live too, if you cast a Divine Light and get, say, a 4k shield on the target. Casting a holy shock or other heal will refresh that shield, but will not overwrite its power(The larger shield remains, smaller shields will not overwrite larger ones, just refresh).

Also, mastery rating does in fact increase the power of our shields. I forget the percentage, but I believe baseline is 10% in beta, with each point adding 1.5-2%, I forgot which. So with 10%, a 10k heal will place a 1k shield on the target. 15%, 1.5k shield. If you update recount on live and do some hard mode content(easy mode probably won't use shields too much), you can see that our mastery actually does do a lot of our healing in ICC. I don't know much about Cata raiding or whether mastery will be a good stat at 85, but its not awful.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5465
I think that its about time that pally heals can keep up with all the other healers out there. Pallies formerly only had 3 heals, 4 if you count the once every 10 mins Lay on Hands oh crap button. And the only HoT effect was garbage with having to cast sacred shield to get it to work. And when you did get that HoT effect it would at best hit for only 1200hp per sec. The addition of the new healy spells and the nerf on beacon of light make us holy pallies more competetive when it comes to raid and areana team heals. Its about time Blizz got around to making the pally a real power house in the healy department!
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86 Human Paladin
7530
For what its worth, Billian, who has been a top rated disc priest season after season after season is switching to Pally. He has posted a lot in an AJ forum post talking about how bad disc is ATM. If you have any interest in high level PvP it's worth looking at.

I think Blizzard kind of painted themselves into a corner with this one. It will be very difficult to balance disc PvE mechanics and still have disc be viable in PvP.
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85 Undead Priest
6340

Blizzard has been trying to get away from the whole Niche of healing classes


well disc's niche was their excuse to make us have zero mobility and poor mana efficiency (aka offensive pressure). Now other classes are being brought up do our damage but we still have zero mobility and poor mana efficiency. See the gripe?
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86 Human Paladin
7530
I think that its about time that pally heals can keep up with all the other healers out there. Pallies formerly only had 3 heals, 4 if you count the once every 10 mins Lay on Hands oh crap button. And the only HoT effect was garbage with having to cast sacred shield to get it to work. And when you did get that HoT effect it would at best hit for only 1200hp per sec. The addition of the new healy spells and the nerf on beacon of light make us holy pallies more competetive when it comes to raid and areana team heals. Its about time Blizz got around to making the pally a real power house in the healy department!


I don't know hat game you played, but aside from a few seasons, Paladins have been very strong or OP for a long time time. In fact, they were the OP, super-strong, faceroll, uber, able carry your retarded friend to 2k healer in the just finished S8 (and in PvE paladins were the snooze, channel surf, 2-3 button, top the meters with passives class).

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85 Dwarf Priest
2480
Perhaps the thread name was a bad idea, or I just assumed in error that anyone besides PvE players frequent the Healing Role forums. In any case, to clear things up a bit:

1) This is about PvP - specifically Arena, not PvE. I don't care about bubbling up a full raid while slaying dragons.

2) This is about Cataclysm, not live. Balance doesnt matter at all on live.

3) This was not a call to nerf Paladins, but to rather point out that many of Disc's strong points (in Arena) have been handed to the other healers while the devs have seemingly taken great care to preserve the weaknesses that used to justify said strengths.

4) If you aren't aware by now, in Cata all healers (most of all Holy Paladins) can match or exceed Disc's damage output while maintaining higher survivability, more potent healing, and better mana efficiency. Not to mention every single other healer has an escape mechanic and/or sprint. Paladins are now every bit as offensively capable as Disc if not more, which used to be one of the major reasons Disc was left immobile by devs.

5) Disc can no longer tank through damage. Most players are quick to realize this and tunnel the priest until he OOMs in about a minute. PW:S covers about two white swings or one yellow, it no longer provides breathing room that it did in wrath. DA is not nearly as valuable in PvP as it is in PvE, especially with the low crit rates in Cata (in fact, ask any good Disc Arena player if they would rather have the consistency of the Paladin's mastery or the RNG DA proc).

6) It's ridiculous to assume blizzard doesnt have the resources or creative prowess to give Paladins what they need without borrowing so much from another spec. Sure, some things are going to be overlap, but can you honestly evaluate the Holy talent changes in Cata, including the mastery and say that it isn't stepping on Disc's toes too much?

To a PvP priest it is a BIG deal to have what you loved most about your playstyle moved to other specs. Most if not all priests that Arena chose Priest because they wanted to be an offensive healer. Paladins didn't 'break into our house and steal our role', but Blizzard has taken it from us and given nothing in return thus far. Now is the time to speak up about it, not later. If you don't care to listen to me, just go over to the AJ forums where multiple R1 gladiator priests are concerned about the exact same things.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9110

1) This is about PvP - specifically Arena, not PvE. I don't care about bubbling up a full raid while slaying dragons.


Until healadins get mana burned, you are still a unique snowflake.

2) This is about Cataclysm, not live. Balance doesnt matter at all on live.


Yeah and at 85 healadin mastery sucks just as bad as it does at 80. I play a disc priest as well as a holy pally, and I find the fact that you are comparing the shields of each almost laughable.

3) This was not a call to nerf Paladins, but to rather point out that many of Disc's strong points (in Arena) have been handed to the other healers while the devs have seemingly taken great care to preserve the weaknesses that used to justify said strengths.


Again, healadin mastery is not even in the same ballpark as disc priest shields. If there's something else, please name it. Oh yeah mana burn.....wait.

4) If you aren't aware by now, in Cata all healers (most of all Holy Paladins) can match or exceed Disc's damage output while maintaining higher survivability, more potent healing, and better mana efficiency. Not to mention every single other healer has an escape mechanic and/or sprint. Paladins are now every bit as offensively capable as Disc if not more, which used to be one of the major reasons Disc was left immobile by devs.


All healers were given a damage boost in the hopes that it would make leveling in a healing spec more attractive. Even disc. If you read a bit more about your abilities, (I didn't say L2P), you will find that disc can absolutely destroy a healadin damage wise. And if they aren't the should L2P. (Then I said it.)

5) Disc can no longer tank through damage. Most players are quick to realize this and tunnel the priest until he OOMs in about a minute. PW:S covers about two white swings or one yellow, it no longer provides breathing room that it did in wrath. DA is not nearly as valuable in PvP as it is in PvE, especially with the low crit rates in Cata (in fact, ask any good Disc Arena player if they would rather have the consistency of the Paladin's mastery or the RNG DA proc).


If there are 2 on you, this should be more than manageable. More than three, fear and run your ass off. You don't have a speed increase because you have a perfectly good talent that sends attackers away and actually (if played correctly) puts more distance between you and them than a speed increase would anyway.

6) It's ridiculous to assume blizzard doesn't have the resources or creative prowess to give Paladins what they need without borrowing so much from another spec. Sure, some things are going to be overlap, but can you honestly evaluate the Holy talent changes in Cata, including the mastery and say that it isn't stepping on Disc's toes too much?


Still waiting for a legit explanation of what exactly was taken because everything that was mentioned in the OP was either bogus or something holy pallies had all through Wrath meaning that the argument that it was taken from disc for Cata was bogus as well.

Bottom line - PVP priests, arena or otherwise, are just as good if not better than they were before. And if you really want to make a good argument about something being broken, try focusing on what's bad with Priests. Not what's good with pallies. This whole thing seems like a childish rant to me. It speaks of nothing that's actually wrong with priests. Nothing. And now that I realize that, I am almost a little miffed at myself for taking the time to respond to it.
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86 Human Paladin
7530
1) This is about PvP - specifically Arena, not PvE. I don't care about bubbling up a full raid while slaying dragons.


Until healadins get mana burned, you are still a unique snowflake.

2) This is about Cataclysm, not live. Balance doesnt matter at all on live.


Yeah and at 85 healadin mastery sucks just as bad as it does at 80. I play a disc priest as well as a holy pally, and I find the fact that you are comparing the shields of each almost laughable.

3) This was not a call to nerf Paladins, but to rather point out that many of Disc's strong points (in Arena) have been handed to the other healers while the devs have seemingly taken great care to preserve the weaknesses that used to justify said strengths.


Again, healadin mastery is not even in the same ballpark as disc priest shields. If there's something else, please name it. Oh yeah mana burn.....wait.

4) If you aren't aware by now, in Cata all healers (most of all Holy Paladins) can match or exceed Disc's damage output while maintaining higher survivability, more potent healing, and better mana efficiency. Not to mention every single other healer has an escape mechanic and/or sprint. Paladins are now every bit as offensively capable as Disc if not more, which used to be one of the major reasons Disc was left immobile by devs.


All healers were given a damage boost in the hopes that it would make leveling in a healing spec more attractive. Even disc. If you read a bit more about your abilities, (I didn't say L2P), you will find that disc can absolutely destroy a healadin damage wise. And if they aren't the should L2P. (Then I said it.)

5) Disc can no longer tank through damage. Most players are quick to realize this and tunnel the priest until he OOMs in about a minute. PW:S covers about two white swings or one yellow, it no longer provides breathing room that it did in wrath. DA is not nearly as valuable in PvP as it is in PvE, especially with the low crit rates in Cata (in fact, ask any good Disc Arena player if they would rather have the consistency of the Paladin's mastery or the RNG DA proc).


If there are 2 on you, this should be more than manageable. More than three, fear and run your ass off. You don't have a speed increase because you have a perfectly good talent that sends attackers away and actually (if played correctly) puts more distance between you and them than a speed increase would anyway.

6) It's ridiculous to assume blizzard doesn't have the resources or creative prowess to give Paladins what they need without borrowing so much from another spec. Sure, some things are going to be overlap, but can you honestly evaluate the Holy talent changes in Cata, including the mastery and say that it isn't stepping on Disc's toes too much?


Still waiting for a legit explanation of what exactly was taken because everything that was mentioned in the OP was either bogus or something holy pallies had all through Wrath meaning that the argument that it was taken from disc for Cata was bogus as well.

Bottom line - PVP priests, arena or otherwise, are just as good if not better than they were before. And if you really want to make a good argument about something being broken, try focusing on what's bad with Priests. Not what's good with pallies. This whole thing seems like a childish rant to me. It speaks of nothing that's actually wrong with priests. Nothing. And now that I realize that, I am almost a little miffed at myself for taking the time to respond to it.


Any Pally who thinks Disc is good, viable or in any way close to a pally in PvP is pure retarded.

Play past 1600, learn the game and you will see. I have both. Priest was my main for a long time and I can assure you, Paladins have more damage and healing, better synergy, and far more survivability than a priest. Sure, playing at 1550 a 2.5 sec mana burn can be game changing, but any good team will quickly lock down a priest who is a stationary turret spamming MB.

Disc Priest PvP is dead. I think the developers will have a very very difficult time balancing Disc for PvP without making Holy or Disc PvE over powered.

On a side note, I get tired of classes who are OP (like my pally here, or my mage, or resto druids) who insist that things are balanced and people need to learn to play. You hit 80 well into wrath. Your class has been strong or OP (and TBH, faceroll easy) the whole time you have played it. Probably you should make sure you know how to play (and are not just being carried by your class) before you say L2P to anybody.
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
1270
1) This is about PvP - specifically Arena, not PvE. I don't care about bubbling up a full raid while slaying dragons.


Until healadins get mana burned, you are still a unique snowflake.

2) This is about Cataclysm, not live. Balance doesnt matter at all on live.


Yeah and at 85 healadin mastery sucks just as bad as it does at 80. I play a disc priest as well as a holy pally, and I find the fact that you are comparing the shields of each almost laughable.

3) This was not a call to nerf Paladins, but to rather point out that many of Disc's strong points (in Arena) have been handed to the other healers while the devs have seemingly taken great care to preserve the weaknesses that used to justify said strengths.


Again, healadin mastery is not even in the same ballpark as disc priest shields. If there's something else, please name it. Oh yeah mana burn.....wait.

4) If you aren't aware by now, in Cata all healers (most of all Holy Paladins) can match or exceed Disc's damage output while maintaining higher survivability, more potent healing, and better mana efficiency. Not to mention every single other healer has an escape mechanic and/or sprint. Paladins are now every bit as offensively capable as Disc if not more, which used to be one of the major reasons Disc was left immobile by devs.


All healers were given a damage boost in the hopes that it would make leveling in a healing spec more attractive. Even disc. If you read a bit more about your abilities, (I didn't say L2P), you will find that disc can absolutely destroy a healadin damage wise. And if they aren't the should L2P. (Then I said it.)

5) Disc can no longer tank through damage. Most players are quick to realize this and tunnel the priest until he OOMs in about a minute. PW:S covers about two white swings or one yellow, it no longer provides breathing room that it did in wrath. DA is not nearly as valuable in PvP as it is in PvE, especially with the low crit rates in Cata (in fact, ask any good Disc Arena player if they would rather have the consistency of the Paladin's mastery or the RNG DA proc).


If there are 2 on you, this should be more than manageable. More than three, fear and run your ass off. You don't have a speed increase because you have a perfectly good talent that sends attackers away and actually (if played correctly) puts more distance between you and them than a speed increase would anyway.

6) It's ridiculous to assume blizzard doesn't have the resources or creative prowess to give Paladins what they need without borrowing so much from another spec. Sure, some things are going to be overlap, but can you honestly evaluate the Holy talent changes in Cata, including the mastery and say that it isn't stepping on Disc's toes too much?


Still waiting for a legit explanation of what exactly was taken because everything that was mentioned in the OP was either bogus or something holy pallies had all through Wrath meaning that the argument that it was taken from disc for Cata was bogus as well.

Bottom line - PVP priests, arena or otherwise, are just as good if not better than they were before. And if you really want to make a good argument about something being broken, try focusing on what's bad with Priests. Not what's good with pallies. This whole thing seems like a childish rant to me. It speaks of nothing that's actually wrong with priests. Nothing. And now that I realize that, I am almost a little miffed at myself for taking the time to respond to it.


what a freakin mouth breather LOL

stick to slaying dragons broski don't need back peddlers

pallies are op as hell and I've retired my 2600 rated priest, look it up peachette emerald dream, class is a joke now

I'm loving my pally now healing through the apocalypse and still have 100% mana.

I'm not even full wrathful yet and my holy pally dps demolishes gladiators lol, never lost a duel yet.
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- World of Warcraft
85 Tauren Paladin
6700

I'm not even full wrathful yet and my holy pally dps demolishes gladiators lol, never lost a duel yet.


I want to say that this is where you lost all credibility.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9110
When I hit 80 or what I have done since is of no consequence. I PVP on my disc priest and my holy pally. My disc priest is nowhere near as geared as my holy pally, yet still survives just as well. If you are managing your CC's correctly, no one should ever catch up to you. As for arenas, yes those were a new thing for me this season admittedly. What I accomplished this season vs what you accomplished over however many seasons you played has absolutely nothing to do with the argument at hand.

What matters is that you say your class is broken. Someone who plays the class disagrees with you, and because you can't refute logical information offered by the player disagreeing with you, it then becomes necessary to comment on someone's arena rating or time played. I would simply ask if you are so much better than me, then why can't your disc priest survive while mine has no problems doing so unless I'm being tunneled to death by half a team?

Sounds to me as though you are the one having trouble figuring out how to play your class. Not me. But then again, I also kill dragons and experience both sides of the game PVP and PVE. So I'm probably not nearly as skilled as someone who just sits in an arena queue all day and spams mana burn. lol
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86 Human Paladin
7530
When I hit 80 or what I have done since is of no consequence. I PVP on my disc priest and my holy pally. My disc priest is nowhere near as geared as my holy pally, yet still survives just as well. If you are managing your CC's correctly, no one should ever catch up to you. As for arenas, yes those were a new thing for me this season admittedly. What I accomplished this season vs what you accomplished over however many seasons you played has absolutely nothing to do with the argument at hand.

What matters is that you say your class is broken. Someone who plays the class disagrees with you, and because you can't refute logical information offered by the player disagreeing with you, it then becomes necessary to comment on someone's arena rating or time played. I would simply ask if you are so much better than me, then why can't your disc priest survive while mine has no problems doing so unless I'm being tunneled to death by half a team?

Sounds to me as though you are the one having trouble figuring out how to play your class. Not me. But then again, I also kill dragons and experience both sides of the game PVP and PVE. So I'm probably not nearly as skilled as someone who just sits in an arena queue all day and spams mana burn. lol


What CC's am supposed to manage as disc? You say you play disc, and think we have CC's? Explain the plural there.

I also "kill dragons". My main (and actually one of my alts) is 11/12 heroic (don't troll me guys, I've been pretty casual with raiding during ICC), so I know both sides of the game.

Im not going to waste a lot of time with you, but statements like the following indicate you are kinda clueless.

If there are 2 on you, this should be more than manageable. More than three, fear and run your ass off. You don't have a speed increase because you have a perfectly good talent that sends attackers away and actually (if played correctly) puts more distance between you and them than a speed increase would anyway.


Fear on a 30 sec CD is a great tool, but it'snot an effective self peel. You cant run with slowing poison or hamstring, can't fear warriors, DKs have multiple anti fear tools, Gotta get the totem before you can self Peel enhance, and of course everybody has a trinket to negate the 1st fear if their healer doesn't dispel it (which past 1550, they often do).... did I leave out any melee? And how often do you get a fear off on a smart mage, or elemental, or lock? I could continue but its pointless because at 1550 fear bombs seem OP.

All healers were given a damage boost in the hopes that it would make leveling in a healing spec more attractive. Even disc. If you read a bit more about your abilities, (I didn't say L2P), you will find that disc can absolutely destroy a healadin damage wise. And if they aren't the should L2P. (Then I said it.)


Just no. I have spent plenty of time at the combat dummies and in BGs with both classes since 4.0.1 dropped. Blazing Light, Crusade, and Denounce let me cast instant 30% damage bonus HS every 6 sec with a 50% chance of getting a free and instant Exorcism right after. If I don't get a free one, its ok, because they cast at 1-1.3 secs (and I have very little haste). Once I get em to 20% I have a great execute in HoW. Not only that, I can pop my wings and Divine favor at the same time to BLOW STUFF UP!!!! I have burned down Arc mages and hunters while healing myself through their damage with my instants (and insta-fearing lock pets then burning them down with guaranteed crits from exorcism is a special joy after playing disc. Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling!). The 75% mana reduction from denounce means I can do this for a long long long time. Disc, with 2 dots, HF, smite and SW:D on CD has decent damage, but it's not as good as Paladin and has much much much worse longevity (and also has the liability of self damage from SW:D). If you think a disc priest can destroy a healadin damage wise, you are clueless. The only benefit Disc has damage wise is the ability to insta Dot someone and let them tick (for small damage) while disc does other things.

I could continue to tear down your arguments, but why? I don't know why bad players want to keep the other classes down... maybe they think it will make their life easier.

I switched to this Paladin. Disc PvP is dead. Even though I switched to a Paladin, I'm not about to argue that disc is anywhere close to even the worst of the other healers. To state they are close to Paladins, who are very very strong is just stupid.
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85 Dwarf Priest
2480
When I hit 80 or what I have done since is of no consequence. I PVP on my disc priest and my holy pally. My disc priest is nowhere near as geared as my holy pally, yet still survives just as well. If you are managing your CC's correctly, no one should ever catch up to you. As for arenas, yes those were a new thing for me this season admittedly.


Again, this is about the state of disc pvp in cata, not live, although you are still being just as ignorant when talking about pvp on live at 80 as paladins are currently godmode there. At 85 the disparity is worse since disc has nothing to offer to a comp that another healer can't cover much more effectively. They are a liability at this point.
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