Dustwallow Marsh

100 Human Paladin
10375
So, the Cataclysm is fast approaching. The Barrens will be cleaved in two and Thousand Needles will be hit by a tidal wave. But the zone in between the two, Dustwallow, is not affected at all? Not even the damn docks are destroyed in Theramore as far as I know.

Given the outrage over Arathi, I figured I would ask about the other zone that got shafted in Cataclysm. What the hell is happening in Dustwallow? Jaina seems to have the same quotes she has had for the past four years, the only geographical change is that there is now a path to the south, to Thousand Needles I assume, and the quests are largely the same. Even the damn deserters are still there. Oh, and the giant bridge that Deathwing seems to have built after feeling guilty about the dam in Loch Modan.

I am hoping that they will revamp both Arathi and Dustwallow in the patch where Kul'Tiras and possibly Stromgarde make an appearance, but... is there any explanation in quests, NPC chatter, anywhere about what is going on there? Did Jaina Mana Shield the entire zone?
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100 Orc Warrior
19115
....what?

First of all, Theramore gets flooded in The Shattering, but given the massive Alliance backing to the place as well as its citizens predisposition living in a damn swamp, is it really that hard to fathom that the flood damage was repaired in short order? Do you really want to see Theramore all decrepit and broken for the next 5 years?

Second, there's a giant freaking highway leading to the Southern Barrens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruO9Jg3-pS4

And what isn't shown in the video are all the Alliance troops patrolling that highway and ganking anything that gets near it.

Third, Dustwallow Marsh was already updated in 2.3.0 (that's the ZA patch). That's pretty damn recent. The Theramore quests are pretty cool and Mudsprocket is a nice experience. Why spend already-stretched time and resources fixing something that isn't broken just for the sake of change?

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http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2348118/
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100 Human Paladin
10375
How does one unflood a marsh?

I mentioned the giant road.

Patrolling guards... woohoo?

Eastern Plaguelands was updated in Wrath yet it got a total makeover. The deserters are still there four years after we took care of them, Jaina seems to have the same conversation box, and Dustwallow was always one of the least quested in zones in my experience. I don't even know of any quests surrounding the road, Horde attacking it, Alliance defending it, ect.
Edited by Kolten on 11/14/2010 11:17 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5735
How does one unflood a marsh?


Ask the French? It's how they built New Orleans.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
How does one unflood a marsh?

I mentioned the giant road.

Patrolling guards... woohoo?

Eastern Plaguelands was updated in Wrath yet it got a total makeover. The deserters are still there four years after we took care of them, Jaina seems to have the same conversation box, and Dustwallow was always one of the least quested in zones in my experience. I don't even know of any quests surrounding the road, Horde attacking it, Alliance defending it, ect.


Uhhh. I dont recall Eastern Plaguelands getting pdated outside of the DK questline areas.
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100 Human Paladin
10375
Eastern Plaguelands got the entire new area behind Tyr's Hand.

Compare and contrast.

http://www.wowhead.com/zone=15
vs.
http://cata.wowhead.com/zone=15

Theramore gets flooded and the rest of the zone, including the little islands, are still in the exact same place with the exact same layout?
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100 Orc Warrior
19115
Are you seriously trying to compare adding the DK-only quests, little more than a cosmetic change to most players, to the Dustwallow overhaul?

And it wasn't a violent flood. The sea level just rose a couple feet and receded. A couple of ships got smashed. I can't believe I need to explain this, but things don't usually stay flooded forever after the flood itself happens. Thousand Needles is permanent because the landmass separating it from the Great Sea was shattered.

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http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2348118/
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100 Human Paladin
10375
There is a tidal wave a few miles away and the sea level rises a couple of feet? I am not a scientist but that seems a little off.

Dustwallow is a marsh, full of little lakes and rivers/stream thingys. After a flood the watter would just all disappear from the little lakes? Plus, Tanaris. Flooded and stayed that way.

Isn't part of the point of redoing the old world to make the zones more attractive and better areas? Arathi got about as much change as Dustwallow and everyone is pissed about it. And no, being updated in 2.3 doesn't really matter given that they did not have vehicles, phasing, and all the other new gimmicks they have these days.

Dustwallow is possibly the least quested in zone, at least on my server, outside of Feralas. They obviously didn't do a great job in 2.3 trying to make it better.
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56 Human Warrior
0
Dustwallow is not a fun zone and it will not be used at all come Cata I agree it is a bad zone atm but I still have hope that it, Arathi, and Silithus will be updated in a later patch.
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100 Orc Warrior
19115
There was no tidal wave that hit Thousand Needles. As I said before, the "dam" breaks and the ocean floods the big canyon that's several hundred feet below sea level.

Tanaris is made of sand. I'm assuming any temporary flooding it going to erode a lot of the landmass it covered.

______________
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2348118/
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100 Human Paladin
10375
If sand eroded when temporarily flooded there would be no beaches...

If Tanaris was flooded as much as it was then there was more than a few feet of sea level rising. All the way to Gadgetzan is quite a distance from the ocean.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
There was no tidal wave that hit Thousand Needles. As I said before, the "dam" breaks and the ocean floods the big canyon that's several hundred feet below sea level.

Tanaris is made of sand. I'm assuming any temporary flooding it going to erode a lot of the landmass it covered.

______________
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2348118/


Wait, no.. thousand Needles is above sea level. Unless the Cataclysm drops Thousand Needles again (something that is possible), there has to be another reason for the flooding.

The Sundering raised Thousand Needles ABOVE sea level, and thats why its now a canyon and not the river it used to be.

As for the tidal wave thing. Its not that it was a foot of water. Its how much of it there was. But thats not going to last forever. The water doesnt stay at the level, and what ever is filled into the swamp is going to drain out somewhere.
Edited by Ferlion on 11/14/2010 11:47 AM PST
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100 Human Paladin
10375
Heck they should have updated the Draenei and Blood Elf starting zones but I guess they are going with a 'these happen before the Cataclysm' time warp thing that makes no sense. (I get on a boat to Azuremyst and I apparently go back in time to before the Cataclysm?)
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100 Tauren Druid
9215
Heck they should have updated the Draenei and Blood Elf starting zones but I guess they are going with a 'these happen before the Cataclysm' time warp thing that makes no sense. (I get on a boat to Azuremyst and I apparently go back in time to before the Cataclysm?)



... are you going to complain that they didn't update Northrend, too?


This is starting to get ridiculous.
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100 Human Paladin
10375
No? They should have but I don't care about updating Northrend. I don't care about the Blood Elf/Draenei zones either, was just mentioning it.

Edit: To me, the goal of updating the Old World was to bring it up to the standards of Northrend questing. They did that in every zone except Arathi, Dustwallow, and Silithus.(No idea on this one.)

It is like renovating a house. There is a new building code that you adhere to, but one of the walls was updated a few years ago, but doesn't meet the new code. You still have to bring that wall up to standards, regardless of if you updated it a few years ago. I realize that Blizzard doesn't have to update zones, so the analogy isn't quite correct. But why update all the other zones to Wrath standards if you are going to not update a few? I already plan to do questing in every zone OTHER than Arathi and Dustwallow, and I can't imagine other people are going to want to do the "Who burned the Inn?" and "Kill Deserters" instead of places like Stranglethorn, Thousand Needles, ect.
Edited by Kolten on 11/14/2010 12:15 PM PST
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100 Orc Warrior
19115
Since nobody apparently believes me...

Here you can clearly view Sea Level on either side of the breach in the barrier wall surrounding Thousand Needles. Sea Level is the same point everywhere in the game, or at least the world server. You can swim laps around the continents to prove this if you want:

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/3903/wowscrnshot111410145658.jpg

Here's a shot from underwater looking at the breach:

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/3733/wowscrnshot111410145819.jpg

Here's me in a ring of dead turtles, again looking at the breach:

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/7555/wowscrnshot111410145933.jpg

Here's what's left of the raceway, crushed beneath a whale:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3796/wowscrnshot111410150015.jpg

Here's me standing at the "bottom" of the Flats next to the raceway ruins as they are on live to show the difference in height between that and the height of the land post-Cataclysm. They're the same:

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/5801/wowscrnshot111410150902.jpg

So again, I'll carefully explain what happens. There's an ocean swell that hits the eastern coast of Kalimdor. Dustwallow floods, then recedes. Durotar floods, then recedes. Tanaris floods, then recedes. The swell hits the top of the barrier wall around the Thousand Needles, which breaks, sending in a "dam flood" into the canyon. The swell recedes and the Thousand Needles levels out at Sea Level. The height of the zone was not shifted, and if it was, not in any meaningful way. You can even swim out and see how high it is on Live if you want to.


______________
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2348118/
Edited by Odok on 11/14/2010 12:16 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
Since nobody apparently believes me...

Here you can clearly view Sea Level on either side of the breach in the barrier wall surrounding Thousand Needles. Sea Level is the same point everywhere in the game, or at least the world server. You can swim laps around the continents to prove this if you want:

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/3903/wowscrnshot111410145658.jpg

Here's a shot from underwater looking at the breach:

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/3733/wowscrnshot111410145819.jpg

Here's me in a ring of dead turtles, again looking at the breach:

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/7555/wowscrnshot111410145933.jpg

Here's what's left of the raceway, crushed beneath a whale:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3796/wowscrnshot111410150015.jpg

Here's me standing at the "bottom" of the Flats next to the raceway ruins as they are on live to show the difference in height between that and the height of the land post-Cataclysm. They're the same:

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/5801/wowscrnshot111410150902.jpg

So again, I'll carefully explain what happens. There's an ocean swell that hits the eastern coast of Kalimdor. Dustwallow floods, then recedes. Durotar floods, then recedes. Tanaris floods, then recedes. The swell hits the top of the barrier wall around the Thousand Needles, which breaks, sending in a "dam flood" into the canyon. The swell recedes and the Thousand Needles levels out at Sea Level. The height of the zone was not shifted, and if it was, not in any meaningful way. You can even swim out and see how high it is on Live if you want to.


______________
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2348118/


Meh. I'v relooked up the statment saying thousand needles was raised. It was, but it was fed through an underground tributary. Considering the size of the Thousand Needles it must have been massive. So, I concende. Mainly because I was wrong.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
4230
I just want to point out; the flooding in Tanaris is very much likely due to the earthquakes leading to the tectonic plates along the edge of the continent dropping.
Which is also what I had been attributing the collapse of the mountain barrier in Thousand Needles to.

Plate dropping is an actual phenomenon; the plates in southern British Columbia, along the coast, are seismically "due" for a major quake within the next two hundred years - and that quake is supposed to drop the land level by one hundred feet. :P Meaning that most of the Lower Mainland will become part of the ocean; just like Tanaris and Thousand Needles.

Dustwallow being unaffected? Different tectonic plate is the simplest explanation; and is supported by the mountain range between Dustwallow and Thousand Needles. (Mountain ranges usually form along plate boundaries)
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90 Human Paladin
11055
I just want to point out that Dustwallow Marsh proved to be one of the most important areas in the world to the Alliance war effort.

Though there is a slight disappointment that after all that epic war and blood and death and violence in the Barrens you essentially just go back and do old world quests.
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100 Orc Warrior
19115
I just want to point out; the flooding in Tanaris is very much likely due to the earthquakes leading to the tectonic plates along the edge of the continent dropping.
Which is also what I had been attributing the collapse of the mountain barrier in Thousand Needles to.

Plate dropping is an actual phenomenon; the plates in southern British Columbia, along the coast, are seismically "due" for a major quake within the next two hundred years - and that quake is supposed to drop the land level by one hundred feet. :P Meaning that most of the Lower Mainland will become part of the ocean; just like Tanaris and Thousand Needles.

Dustwallow being unaffected? Different tectonic plate is the simplest explanation; and is supported by the mountain range between Dustwallow and Thousand Needles. (Mountain ranges usually form along plate boundaries)


If it were plate dropping, why bother having the side crack when the water could just spill over the top? Why is the height of the zone still the same relative to Ferelas, Dustwallow Marsh, and the Barrens when their relative height to sea level remains unchanged? Why isn't there some sort of devastation between the boundaries of the unaffected zones?

There doesn't need to be a complex explanation here... the Thousand Needles is already below sea level. You can go see it yourself. You can swim north of Tanaris and look at the mountains. You can see how you have to run nearly twice the distance to get out of the Shimmering Flats than to walk down into Tanaris. You can see how the Needles sit below the lowest point in Ferelas, which is along the western coast. You can sit at the bottom of the zone, look up, and realize the entire height of Freewind Post only just hits level with the height of the Barrens, which is only a few dozen feet above sea level.

The devs didn't go back and rebuild the world from scratch -- they just modified what was already there. I seriously, seriously doubt they meticulously went through and lowered the zone and redid all the boundaries. Especially when they're identical to what we can already see on Live.

______________
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2348118/
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