Is Holy going to be our only viable PvP spec?

64 Blood Elf Hunter
450
At 85, that is?

I know Ret is pretty much crap unless you have a pocket healer right now, and the past few patch notes have been filled with Prot nerfs (PotI amd GbtL, for starters), so is the only real Paladin PvP spec for Cataclysm going to be Holy?

Honestly, this kinda sucks.
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90 Human Paladin
12095
most every dps class is pretty crap without healing, sir. if you are looking to steamroll people by yourself, you should stick with ranged, use pve gear, and hope that no one is smart enough to attack you. otherwise you have to rely on defensive cooldowns and a healer to keep you upright - and if you are a healer you have to rely on dps to kill things for you. that's kind of how the game is supposed to work, you see.
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I can see you've never gone 1v1 with a good frost mage.
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90 Human Paladin
12980

nice mainhand.


And this is relevant to the thread how?

I plan on being prot in PvP. I've been prot for 6 years, whether it was underpowered, just right, or overpowered. I'm a die-hard prot paladin, never specced ret. I've been holy a few times but it's rare and only for a boss fight or two. I'll always wear a shield.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9105
Ret isn't very good at all at 85. (I'm on the beta.)

Honestly it feels exactly like it does on live. However you're doing at 80 right now is pretty much exactly how you're going to do at 85. Increased health pools have done pretty much nothing.
If you've ever seen Hoff's videos, you'll have to play like that nearly all the time if you expect to survive, and this is just talking BGs.
Even with a shaman healer, you still have to play defensively, as a frost mage can quite easily kill you in six seconds.

Mobility's a lot better now that the cleanse buff is through, but eh. It's us and enhance shammies at the bottom of the heap.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5750
Warriors have almost always been complete @!@% without a pocket healer. With one, they are ridiculously powerful.


Yeah, except now they aren't complete crap without one. Without a healer, a warrior can still stay on target because of their high mobility and put out decent burst against pretty much everything except a Frost Mage. Ret, however, cannot. Our mobility is limited to the point a Ret Paladin is kited easily by pretty much everything with range, and our burst damage is RNG and usually ignored in lieu of self-healing.

With a healer, an Arms Warrior goes from strong to unstoppable. A Ret Paladin with a healer goes from "meh" to juggernaut. The disparity is very noticeable.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5750
Warriors have almost always been complete @!@% without a pocket healer. With one, they are ridiculously powerful.


Yeah, except now they aren't complete crap without one. Without a healer, a warrior can still stay on target because of their high mobility and put out decent burst against pretty much everything except a Frost Mage. Ret, however, cannot. Our mobility is limited to the point a Ret Paladin is kited easily by pretty much everything with range, and our burst damage is RNG and usually ignored in lieu of self-healing.

With a healer, an Arms Warrior goes from strong to unstoppable. A Ret Paladin with a healer goes from "meh" to juggernaut. The disparity is very noticeable.
Lolwat?

I play an Arms Warrior as my alt and let me tell ya, he's not badly geared or anything but he gets rolled in BGs. You somehow think I have unlimited Spell Reflect and 10k Mortal Strikes in Defensive Stance with a S&B? No.


Uh, did I say that?
/look at quote
Oh wait, no I didn't. Also, why are you in Defensive Stance using a shield as Arms, unless you're stance dancing? Please tell me this is a troll, I don't think anyone's that bad.

But honestly, Arms is fairly strong right now 1v1, and is one of the best PvP class/specs in the Beta. So... you're bad?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5750
Well, it still requires you to have 3 HP, but doesn't consume it.

Warriors aren't amazing solo, but they're passable. If you're standing at a node in AB and your teammates run off somewhere else, leaving you by yourself, you'd be better off as an Arms Warrior than a Retribution Paladin. I never insinuated that Arms is perfect, but they're probably the strongest melee class aside from Feral Druids.

No class is an "I win" button, but if a ranged class approaches you and you're Ret, you might as well sit and take it unless AW is off CD.
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