Can't use HoL with Zero HP

85 Blood Elf Paladin
9105
If you don't have any Holy Power, but you have a Hand of Light proc, you can't use Hand of Light. None of your finishers will activate, you must have at least one charge of HP to use HoL.

It works this way for me on beta too. Bizarre.

I'm guessing it's a bug, as you can't use a finisher when you have no HP without a HoL proc. Only now the game apparently doesn't care if you have a HoL proc.

Just me? Or is this happening for others as well?
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I've heard this bug as well, haven't seen it yet.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12065
This is happening to me as well
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
10540
Yes, this is a bug that is also currently on beta. Rather annoying to say the least.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12050
Working as intended now?


Your autoattacks have a 8% chance to grant Hand of Light, causing your next Holy Power ability to consume no Holy Power and to cast as if 3 Holy Power were consumed. Each point of Mastery increases the chance by an additional 1%.


Tool tip doesn't say anything about if you have zero hp.


The assumption would generally be that if an ability is set to be free (as in: consume no resources), it doesn't need them to cast in the first place.

A good example of this is a priest's Inner Focus. When it's up, you can still cast one of the spells it affects while having zero mana. The HoL problem is almost certainly a bug.
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80 Draenei Shaman
2210
Working as intended now?


Your autoattacks have a 8% chance to grant Hand of Light, causing your next Holy Power ability to consume no Holy Power and to cast as if 3 Holy Power were consumed. Each point of Mastery increases the chance by an additional 1%.


Tool tip doesn't say anything about if you have zero hp.


If this is the intended use, then it's an incredibly bad implementation that devalues Mastery even more for Ret. If you aren't able to use up that proc as soon as it's available because you have to spend 4 seconds getting a charge of holy power, then you're preventing further procs of HoL from occuring. You even run the risk of HoL fading if you have to run after your target (ie, you're being kited around in a big circle).

At least, that's what I'm seeing.

edit: fixed holy power amount assumptions.
Edited by Seki on 11/16/2010 1:43 PM PST
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100 Human Paladin
13030
known bug, will be fixed in a future patch. should be nice and annoying (as in fairly crippling) until they do, though.
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86 Blood Elf Paladin
9000
Tested this with 0, 1, 2, and 3 HP. Could only not use TV with 0.
Hopefully this is a bug!
A Blue confirmation as to what this is would be nice.
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86 Blood Elf Paladin
9000
If it's a bug then it's the same bug as the old glyph of revenge for warriors that made your next Heroic Strike free after a Revenge but you couldn't use it if you didn't have enough rage to use Heroic Strike in the first place, except that I don't recall anybody actually considering it as a bug.

It does say that it affects your next holy power ability. Since you cannot use your next holy power ability until you have holy power it is still doing what it states. It does not state anything about no longer requiring holy power, on no longer consuming holy power.
It's assumed that "causing your next Holy Power ability to consume no Holy Power" makes the ability cost zero Holy Power, similar to the Mage's Clearcasting. It completely removes the mana cost from your offensive spells, and if you look at the tooltip during a clearcast it has no mention of any mana cost, instead of just putting "0 Mana" as the cost. It also casts regardless of if you have enough mana to cast it on a normal basis.
If it's supposed to be like this, it should say so.
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86 Blood Elf Paladin
9000

It's assumed that "causing your next Holy Power ability to consume no Holy Power" makes the ability cost zero Holy Power, similar to the Mage's Clearcasting. It completely removes the mana cost from your offensive spells, and if you look at the tooltip during a clearcast it has no mention of any mana cost, instead of just putting "0 Mana" as the cost. It also casts regardless of if you have enough mana to cast it on a normal basis.
If it's supposed to be like this, it should say so.


Actually:

Clearcasting state reduces the mana cost of your next damage spell by 100%.

Note that it specifically, explicitly, mentions mana cost.

True, it does say that, but that's just a tooltip thing. If we're to get to the bottom of this we have to go into the inner mechanics of the abilities.

Clearcasting:
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12536

Hand of Light:
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=90174

Note that the mechanic is exactly the same for both spells. (Except that Clearcasting has a -1000 and HoL has a -100. Probably just the way it works. Not important.) They both reduce the resource requirement by 100%, or are supposed to. Hand of Light should work like Clearcasting in that it makes it a free, no-questions-asked, Holy Power ability just like Clearcasting makes mage spells free with no little quirks like needing the mana it would otherwise use.
This leads me to believe that it's almost certainly a bug.

Note: I won't pretend to know what those WowHead Spell Details mean. I just barely understand them to the point that I know how spells work.
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80 Draenei Priest
1500
For what its worth i agree with Zap. To me that spell reads as you use a holy power ability but keep the charges as with the protection Word of Glory talent. I can see how its read the other way though =)
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The reason it's a bug is because it worked correctly before.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
12270
When Eternal Glory procs, you have actually spent the holy power, and then you gain the amount back. Such as the combat log saying you've gained 3 holy power.

When you use Hand of Light, you don't spend holy power get them refunded. The mechanics are different, and this must be a bug.
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80 Dwarf Paladin
7445
True, it does say that, but that's just a tooltip thing. If we're to get to the bottom of this we have to go into the inner mechanics of the abilities.


Tooltip is pretty much all that matters when asking if the spell does what the tooltip says. The spell effects listed in Wowhead are only showing what it does when triggered, and not what the requirements for triggering are. You might notice that while both say

Apply Aura: Add Modifier - % (14)
Value:


Neither indicate what the aura is being applied to. Another example is Deadly Calm

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=85730

And the old Glyph of Revenge:
After using Revenge, your next Heroic Strike costs no rage.

Note the explicit mention of cost in each instance except Hand of Light. If the tooltip for Hand of Light read "Your next Holy Power ability has its Holy Power cost removed and casts as if 3 Holy Power were used. Lasts 8 sec." or "Your next Holy Power ability costs 0 Holy Power and casts as if 3 Holy Power were used. Lasts 8 sec." then it would be bugged. However, it's not removing the cost, it simply stops the ability from consuming the Holy Power already there.

I won't comment whether it's fair or not, but it is accurate.

Edit: Of course, in regards to Heroic Strike and the old glyph I would say that the effect there was a bug, but then, that's probably why the glyph was changed. Well that, and the change of HS to an instant, truly instant, off the GCD instant, attack.


You're just quibbling semantics.

The main issue is that our mastery is terrible and it didn't need these issue making it worse then the worse that it was.
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