Taugrim's Prot Pally PVP Guide / Vids (Cata)

(Locked)

85 Blood Elf Paladin
2525
"Shield of the Templar now reduces the cooldown of Guardian of Ancient Kings by 40/80/120 seconds, down from 1/2/3 minutes. In addition, your Divine Plea will generate 3 Holy Power."

You Missed that in your update.


thanks for the reminder. I'll have to macro DP with a cancelaura in case I want to hit it for emergency WoG heal
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3505
Hey man cool blog but are u gonna be making any changes to your talents for 4.0.3a?
71 Dwarf Paladin
540
great post; great for someone like me who just got back into Paladins.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
2525
The Glyph of Focused Shield was not changed.

Pre-4.0 the Glyph of Avenger's Shield was 100% increase, which is what you're getting confused about.

Post-4.0 it has stayed at a 30% increase.


OK, that's what I thought, but I wanted to confirm.

That being said, based on damage testing yesterday on 80 target dummies, my AS is down about 5%. Not huge but noticeable.

Aside from AS, HoW damage looks like it has also decreased. That was discussed in the Beta patches but wasn't documented in the Official Patch Notes (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/).

Hey man cool blog but are u gonna be making any changes to your talents for 4.0.3a?


Relevant excerpt from the Guide:
Here is my 0/31/5 spec for level 80 that has been an excellent all-around performer for BGs and soloing:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZGrMcRzdRRucb:szc


Really the main difference is re-investing the 3 points in Crusade instead of PotI, which is now a marginal talent.
Edited by Taugrimm on 11/24/2010 5:00 PM PST
85 Human Paladin
3980
Excellent post.
In fact most of the facts were calculated by friends on European servers and you are quite acurate. Mastery in pvp is irrelevant (what a shame isn't it).
With our weakness vs range magic, I would've appreciated to see an eye for eye being a 60 to 100% sure to reflect 30 to 50% dmg to the caster but enough day dreaming ....

One thing I would change, however, is the way you're gemming. Resilence will help a lot. If we take into account that our dmg out put isn't on par with true dps spec, survivability is a prime stat. Most of the time we will be Flag carrier or Point Def. So resil should be at cap point. Then... well you made it clear quite enough: "ST is the way to go."
85 Blood Elf Paladin
2525
One thing I would change, however, is the way you're gemming. Resilence will help a lot. If we take into account that our dmg out put isn't on par with true dps spec, survivability is a prime stat. Most of the time we will be Flag carrier or Point Def. So resil should be at cap point. Then... well you made it clear quite enough: "ST is the way to go."


Yea, unfortunately with 4.0.3a the gap between our DPS and that of other classes has widened.

Aside from Str, Resil is the only stat I would gem/enchant. My main concern with stacking Resil is losing too much AP/SP from missing Str, and thereby making my DPS too low to apply meaningful pressure.

We'll have to see. I'm still experimenting with 0/31/5 in BG's and duels to get a feel for the changes.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
2525
Added the following to the Macros section of the Guide:
Divine Plea On/Off:
#showtooltip
/cancelaura Divine Plea
/cast Divine Plea

Pressing this once will cast DP, which generates 3 HoPo, and pressing it again will remove DP. This is a great macro if you need an emergency WoG heal or SotR.
Edited by Taugrimm on 11/24/2010 9:14 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
2525
Preliminary tests (no numbers just end results of BGs on average), looks like our our damage is reduced and heals increased. (still very competitive and fun to play).


Has anyone tried Prot with Holy PvP gear since the patch? Since the damage is down I was thinking of pressing the survivability/healing more, especially since you do still get some ok burst with ShotR being static at base.


Sorry I missed this post.

Remember that with TbtL we double-dip from Str: it provides AP and SP.

So with Holy gear you would get a modest SP gain but lose a lot of DPS.

What I would recommend, if you want survivability/healing, is going with the Scaled PVP gear and the Wrathful SP mace instead of a Wrathful AP weapon, given that there is no Wrathful Str weapon.

Thankfully in Cata at 85 we'll have access to Str PVP weapons :)
80 Blood Elf Paladin
2745
my gear is bad and i don't have time to upgrade before cata. so i am hoping people with the gear or beta experience can weight in on a question about prot pvp.

casters who can kite?

AS is amazing indeed, but you have to be in melee to be able to proc a refresh.

so for example with a arcane mage and the slow spam... are you boned? is there any hope for a prot in 1v1 here? it could just be that arcane is the counter. how about affic locks also with slow spam though? with a pet on you you can maybe WOG heal and refresh and be okay?

what about ele shaman and boomkins? i have heard that boomkins fear prot pally pvpers?

who can kite us (with good skill) such that we have no options?

it somewhat seems to depend on how hard we are to burst down at 85. any thoughts here?

ret has cleanse to dispel slows and snares with is nice. they have many other problems though. i dream of both ret and prot being able to dispel slows and snares with cleanse. drool.

100 Tauren Paladin
11215
Hi Taugrimm,
Ive been pvping in prot alot (dont mind the armory Ive been trying Ret latley just for a change) and one major glyph i really like instead of HoJ, is the one that gives your Divine Protection a 40% spell dmg reduction on all incoming spell dmg, but removes the physical dmg reduction. Since 9 out of 10 times melee isnt much of a problem as prot, but casters can really hurt, this has saved my butt many many times. And I can usually get close enough to use HoJ at its regular range.
80 Blood Elf Paladin
3705
Thanks for the great guide and informative post-patch updates.
90 Human Paladin
7190
I clicked "report" but the only options were Negative (ie harassement etc) but I just wanted to say "sticky this!"

Great thread !
85 Blood Elf Paladin
2525
Revised and updated the list of changes, documented and undocumented, and my take on the overall impact.

My comments are in italics. Please note some changes were undocumented in the Official Patch Notes.

Patch 4.0.3a Changes

* Divine Bulwark now grants 2.25% less block chance per point of Mastery, up from 2%. Very minor buff. Additional undocumented buff: block chance increased from 16 to 18%
* Seal of Truth: periodic damage from Censure reduced by 25%. This is a nerf to the DoT portion. Additional undocumented nerf: the additional % damage at 5 stacks has also been reduced, according to my tooltips from 16% to 10%
* Protector of the Innocent no longer triggers from self-heals. This is the most significant nerf for Prot (and Holy and Ret too) in the patch
* Holy shield no longer increases chance to block. Instead, it increases the amount blocked by an additional 10%, for a total of 40% damage blocked. This is a significant nerf for PVP. The previous version of HS increased block chance by 15%
* Shield of the Righteous: Contribution of attack power halved (now 60% with full Holy Power) and base damage brought up so that a level 85 paladin in Heroic dungeon gear deals the same damage with no Vengeance, but Vengeance has less impact. As I had expected, this so far hasn't had much impact on Live - my crit SotR damage is about the same in 4.0.3a as it was in 4.0.1
* Exorcism damage has been increased by approximately 50%. No impact. Exorcism is not a Prot PVP ability, given the mechanics (requires cast-time)
* Shield of the Templar now reduces the cooldown of Guardian of Ancient Kings by 40/80/120 seconds, down from 1/2/3 minutes. Minor nerf, not relevant til Cata. Undocumented change: In addition, your Divine Plea will generate 3 Holy Power. This adds excellent utility to DP, which had been fairly useless for Prot in 4.0
* Wrath of the Lightbringer now increases Crusader Strike and Judgement damage by 50/100%, up from 30/60%. On paper this seems like a nice buff to CS, however CS base damage was also nerfed (undocumented change). On Live I am seeing 270% for my CS tooltip with 3/3 Crusade instead of the 292% in 4.0.1. Therefore overall CS was net-nerfed
* Crusade now also has a proc on kill to increase the healing done by the paladin's next Holy Light by 100/200/300% for 15 seconds, in addition to its current effects. Minor buff
* Pursuit of Justice now has an 8-second internal cooldown, shared with Blessed Life. Not relevant yet, but a minor nerf in Cata
* Glyph of LoH was changed from a Minor to Major glyph (undocumented change). Minor nerf
* I have been observing a decrease in crit AS damage compared to 4.0.1, about 5% (undocumented change). I'm not sure if this is related, but I also noticed the Glyph description for Focused Shield say that it boosts damage by 30%. I can't remember what it said in 4.0.1 but I thought it was 100%
* GbtL was nerfed in terms of the bonus healing amount, but the net healing from WoG is about the same as it was in 4.0.1, because the base heal for WoG was buffed (undocumented change)
* Hammer of Wrath is doing less damage now, ~2-3k on crit, likely due to decrease on PTR to the base damage by 22% (undocumented change). That being said, I still find that HoW packs sufficient punch considering that it is a finisher


Overall Prot still seems viable for BGs.

To sum up, here's my take after testing in BGs and duels the past several days:
- our burst has been toned down a bit, but we can still pack a punch
- our sustained DPS is down noticeably, due to the cumulative effect of multiple nerfs (e.g. to CS and please read my notes above before claiming it's been buffed, to SoT, etc)
- survivability has gone down, primarily to the nerf to PotI

Keep in mind that the comments above are based on the relative performance of 4.0.3a against what we had in 4.0.1. Other classes (e.g. Warriors, Locks) also saw significant nerfs.
81 Blood Elf Paladin
2490
Thanks for your guide Taugrimm! It has been of great help for BGs. I didn't expect to love prot pvp that much :) I have a question though: what can we do against frost mages? There MUST be some way to kill them. I think I tried everything against them yet they can almost kite me to death. Even blessing of freedom is almost useless against them since it doesn't protect against deep freeze (or whatever the name of the skill that roots you) and mages can spellsteal it too. Am I doing something wrong?
80 Blood Elf Paladin
2745
I am wondering the same thing as mordio. Mages can spellsteal, but also arcane mages can keep you perma slowed with that spell (applied on casts now) and afflic locks can keep you perma slowed via curse of exhaustion. I am wondering if prot pally has any real answer for this?
85 Blood Elf Paladin
2525
Hoping this time the Submit button works...I tried posting a long response yesterday and it never appeared.

my gear is bad and i don't have time to upgrade before cata. so i am hoping people with the gear or beta experience can weight in on a question about prot pvp.


A player of any class who doesn't have a baseline set of PVP gear should expect to get owned by competent opponents in PVP, period.

AS is amazing indeed, but you have to be in melee to be able to proc a refresh.


This is why against some casters you have to use CC's aggressively to get into and stay in melee range and hope that GC procs.

what about ele shaman and boomkins? i have heard that boomkins fear prot pally pvpers?


Against Boomkin, save your stun for Starfall, it's the very visible moon icon over their head. Moonkin CC (silence, root) doesn't allow them to continue to DPS without breaking it. You can usually squeeze of a FoL heal if needed given that Typhoon has a travel time. There is no counterspell mechanic to worry about.

Elemental Shaman doesn't have the kind of CC that is dangerous for Prot that other casters have.

one major glyph i really like instead of HoJ, is the one that gives your Divine Protection a 40% spell dmg reduction on all incoming spell dmg, but removes the physical dmg reduction. Since 9 out of 10 times melee isnt much of a problem as prot, but casters can really hurt, this has saved my butt many many times. And I can usually get close enough to use HoJ at its regular range.


Understood. DP Glyph has value for sure.

I'm generally not a fan of glyphs that buff x but nerf y, with the notable exception of Focused Shield.

I have a question though: what can we do against frost mages? There MUST be some way to kill them. I think I tried everything against them yet they can almost kite me to death.


so for example with a arcane mage and the slow spam... are you boned? is there any hope for a prot in 1v1 here?


I am wondering the same thing as mordio. Mages can spellsteal, but also arcane mages can keep you perma slowed with that spell (applied on casts now)


Before 4.0, Mages owned Prot, period. We couldn't meaningfully heal ourselves (aside from LoH) in combat and they'd CC/DPS us to death. Eventually going OOM was a real risk since they could kite us until DP wore off.

In 4.0.1 and 4.0.3, skilled Mages could beat a Prot consistently at even gear / skill levels. However, Mages who lacked good kiting technique / timing of CCs were beatable by Prot, partly thanks to PotI allowing us to stay alive long enough to survive their CC/DPS sequences. Some Mages complained about Prot but the really good ones learned to adjust their game against us, e.g. using silence much more aggressively. So you could beat average Mages but the good ones were tough.

In 4.0.3a, Mages have a significant mechanics advantage against Prot again. A number of classes got net-nerfed in 4.0.3a but Mages seem even stronger from a relative class standpoint than they were before. It is what it is, and it's not like Prot Pally is an easy matchup for other classes.
Edited by Taugrimm on 11/26/2010 7:55 AM PST
Was looking for some info for my paladin for Cata and stumbled upon this guide from my old 1v1 in friend in Warhammer. Thanks for the writeup Taug, glad paladins have you as a part of this community.
This topic is locked.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]