Holy Paladins in a PVE environment

85 Blood Elf Paladin
5860
Is it normal to be out healed by other classes now? Since patch, people been telling me to heal more. Obviously some of our overall healing is in absorbs, so do Holy Paladins do more in absorbing nowadays? From a thread I saw earlier, it must be true that we're turning into disc priests :|
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11330
I was pulling a steady 50-60% of total healing in my last ICC raid...
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85 Tauren Paladin
5040
in my 10-man, I was competitive with the others. "overall" I was behind a shaman and priest in 'total healed' but the HPS was equal to the shaman and just below the priest.

...a lot of it was mechanics though, I got the sindragosa debuff a lot in our attempts, so there were long stretches where I wasn't healing at all.
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90 Human Warrior
10380
I went from blowing people away in healing to 3rd at best. If I try to keep up, I run out of mana and can't get it back.
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Is it normal to be out healed by other classes now? Since patch, people been telling me to heal more. Obviously some of our overall healing is in absorbs, so do Holy Paladins do more in absorbing nowadays? From a thread I saw earlier, it must be true that we're turning into disc priests :|


You should describe how you heal. Other classes are not blowing me away. But with the recent changes everyone has to be more thoughtful about what the do. We are no longer two-button healers.

I have described my approach in several other posts, but here it is again...

Taking advantage of the 4 piece set bonus on Lightsworn armor, I start my rotation with Holy shock, then follow with a fast Holy Light (from the set bonus). Next I have several choices...A slow Holy light, a Flash of Light, Light of dawn...I let the needs of the party determine what to do. simply make a quick assessment and pop which ever spell you think best...After one of two quick spells, I start the rotation again...Shock, fast light, something else...After 3 cycles, you have a full strength word of glory. An important feature of this rotation is that virtually all of them have relatively quick casting times and if you stick to it, you will literally never run out of manna. In times of truly heavy demand, I shift to popping a bunch of flash of lights, but then I have to go back to the rotation to build my manna back up.

Healing has become a whole lot more like dps...You need a rotation to get the most out of your gear.
Edited by Preditorr on 11/17/2010 3:11 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
KA
11135
No, I've been below resto druids in 10 mans (they top everybody) but above or equal to every other class in most other 10 mans -- I have no idea about 25's. This is mostly due to using holy shock and word of glory at three stacks at every available cooldown, and relying pretty heavily on flash of light, which is expensive but is also your highest hps heal. I also have 600+ in combat regen though, so I can afford to do that if I'm careful. But, that won't be possible in Cataclysm.

I don't think there is anything that measures our absorbs right now (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3735
I don't think there is anything that measures our absorbs right now (someone correct me if I'm wrong).


I thought Recount was able to track it.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12135
Not every meter tracks your mastery.

More importantly, you don't have your biggest meter padder (Holy Radiance) yet. In general at level 80 classes that get new core skills between 81 and 85 (Ret, DPS wars, Holy pallies, etc.) are behind classes whose new skills are more situational.
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90 Human Paladin
11260
At 80, I am just filling a raid spot, it seems every other healer is doing better than me now. When I complained about it I was told to wait until 85 but my overall impression, I am not as strong –and by far – as I was few weeks ago.
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90 Human Paladin
14320
I thought Recount was able to track it.


Sort of. Its counting every shield up as a full heal, whether or not it gets absorbed. This is how Recount managed to claim that 9% of my overall healing was mastery shields last night, which is barely even theoretically possible.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
10515
I haven't noticed much of change in healing in my guild run. Maybe I'm uber or they suck, but I'm still on top of the charts. My overheal has dropped now too with the beacon nerf.

Then again I use LoD anytime I see raid damage is getting a bit high. Will probably not be able to do that once they hook up LoD to holy power.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7870
As far as meters are concerned I've taken a hit, but the ability to cast more heals on the fly has been worth it for me personally. I may not be spamming the raid and topping the charts, but healing (IMO) overall just feels more responsive. Besides, Suzushiiro said it best, I don't have my main meter-padder yet.

Its counting every shield up as a full heal, whether or not it gets absorbed.


I thought with absorbs being stated in the combat log this would have gone away. 9% is clearly an error. :)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8650
I think we're in a fine state at 80. The only healers that beat me right now are druids and maybe holy priests on fights with lots of AoE damage.
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90 Human Paladin
14320
"I thought with absorbs being stated in the combat log this would have gone away. 9% is clearly an error. :)"


Yes. That's what I made of it. I've done the math on mastery (I'm a number-cruncher by profession, although I rarely spend the time making number-crunching posts available to the community, largely because it seems to invite armory-peening). Under theoretical best performance our mastery shouldn't be that high, just because of how Beacon of Light works, and the requirement that all party members basically be under a steady damage aura.

Incidentally here's what my math showed me: with the recent boost to Mastery (base 10% and scaling 1.25%), Mastery is only 70% as effective as Haste in increasing throughput under ideal conditions (which requires 88% of paladin healing to be through direct heals). It will shine in heavy aura-damage fights and situations where the paladin is rotating through a number of targets so that the shield isn't being constantly overwritten; which is to say, if a paladin is routinely assigned raid healing, Mastery may be a worthwhile stat for buffering. Its efficacy is high enough that the reforging penalty is going to be rarely worth taking on gear, but low enough that unless you routinely PvP, boosting it off base stats provided makes little sense.
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85 Human Paladin
6955
I mirror those who say they feel very nerfed- I used to be the top of the meters every single time- now I rarely do, and when I do, it's because I've severely overstretched myself, and I am or will shortly be OOM. I think we simply lack the tools to effectively heal right now, in ICC and possibly RS.

We will be getting redesigned LoD and Holy Radiance after Cata hits- if we had those now, healing in ICC would be a MUCH different story :)
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90 Human Paladin
11260
I mirror those who say they feel very nerfed- I used to be the top of the meters every single time- now I rarely do, and when I do, it's because I've severely overstretched myself, and I am or will shortly be OOM.


Yes, that is exactly my experience. Overstretching is how I always played, because of that, I am always OOM these days. I didn't try to change my gear a lot but overall, my impression, I shouldn't be always OOM even if I don't specifically re-everything for regen, in almost 277 gear, on content I should pretty much fly through.

I hope the 85 experience will be different.

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85 Human Paladin
6595
Honestly, If you are spending your time watching a meter and trying to keep up with, or even surpass, other healers, you will run out of mana and overheal.

I dropped down in my rank on our guild runs, going from first on the meters to second, but it doesn't bother me. At the end of the night, everyone is alive and we're looting purples, so I'm content.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
putting the diffence in gear away, rest is just to react faster. shock, beacon and lights, with wog in between you'll still top the meter.

every healer is built to be capable of topping the meter. but only one actually does.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
KA
11135
As far as meters are concerned I've taken a hit, but the ability to cast more heals on the fly has been worth it for me personally. I may not be spamming the raid and topping the charts, but healing (IMO) overall just feels more responsive. Besides, Suzushiiro said it best, I don't have my main meter-padder yet.


This has been my experience too. While we've lost the holy light splash and 100% beacon pass-through which both padded the meters, I think we've made up for it in having access to more instants and a powerful and fast flash of light, as well as the infusion of light proc and all of the other procs and abilities (i.e. daybreak, eternal glory, even being able to use hand of sacrifice knowing that protector of the innocent will keep you up is nice). Even with some of these being random procs, I still feel like I'm more in control of any heavy damage situation now, because I have more options. Before it was just pray your holy light lands in time and spreads some healing around to the group, or hit the lowest health person with holy shock and get back to aforesaid holy light spam.

Edit: and of course we lost judgement of light which padded the meters too. And a lot of this will go by the wayside in Cataclysm, but for what it's worth, this is what I think about our state right now.

[Mastery] will shine in heavy aura-damage fights and situations where the paladin is rotating through a number of targets so that the shield isn't being constantly overwritten;


Completely agree with the above, and also any fight with a fast hitting boss (where he's hitting faster than you can land your next heal), seems like it would be valuable too.
Edited by Picardie on 11/18/2010 9:12 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9110
At the end of the night, everyone is alive and we're looting purples, so I'm content.


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This

And while I suck at crunching numbers, it seems most of it will revolve around healing assignments. If I'm assigned to heal tanks, haste is going to blow out mastery by a mile. However, if I'm assigned a group for raid heals, mastery seems as though it might be more worth it. The bigger question imo will be where do each of us fit in with our particular guilds, raid groups, and healing teams.
Edited by Hmrhead on 11/18/2010 9:16 PM PST
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