Shatter & Frostburn

I think it's going to become a problem with Mage gear scaling in PvP.

Mages are basically going to have to stack crit until a certain(probably ~25) % above all else to take advantage of the new shatter, not being able to go for more balanced stats until later into the expansion.

Maybe a shatter that simply increases our damage on frozen targets could be a better solution? - instead of leaving that as our mastery. This way our stats can progress through expansions at a more even rate, instead of first hitting a cap for one stat before we start gearing for others.

Or simply make shatter 100% and allow Frost to skip crit and adjust their damage accordingly. I guess I don't see that flying with Blizzard though heh...wishful thinking.

As for Frostburn, here's the issue I see it creating -

Our damage on non-frozen targets will be almost the same in the first Cata PvP season as it will be in the last, the only variable being spell power on gear and faster casts from haste.

Our damage on frozen targets, because we will stack mastery almost exclusively after hitting certain levels of crit/haste, will get much higher as gear improves.

Basically, Frost Mage burst damage will scale more than any other spec while it's sustained damage will remain pathetically low.

I personally see this as a problem.


Edit to include Frostburn since discussion on it seems inevitable.


Edited by Andonisus on 11/13/2010 8:54 AM PST
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90 Gnome Mage
13590
Its a soft cap of 33.34% which only really matters when the target is considered frozen, and though fingers of frost has a decent up time its most definatly not 100%. So crit still matters. There are always ideal crit/haste/etc percentages that effect classes drastically. In pvp mages will still need spell pen still and hit also haste and mastery sure do help. If you choose to sacrifice those other stats early to hit the soft crit cap, so be it. If later down the line the pvp gear is encumbered with crit, well thats what reforging and off the various offset peices are for that have either crit, haste, mastery, or hit.
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Its a soft cap of 33.34% which only really matters when the target is considered frozen, and though fingers of frost has a decent up time its most definatly not 100%. So crit still matters. There are always ideal crit/haste/etc percentages that effect classes drastically. In pvp mages will still need spell pen still and hit also haste and mastery sure do help. If you choose to sacrifice those other stats early to hit the soft crit cap, so be it. If later down the line the pvp gear is encumbered with crit, well thats what reforging and off the various offset peices are for that have either crit, haste, mastery, or hit.


You don't seem to understand my concerns, I'm not worried about being able to gear optimally, I'm worried that our class will scale either too well(my bet is on this) or not well enough and have to be periodically nerfed/buffed in PvP because of this talent. It's better to fix the talent than have to make changes to the class every time gear levels increase.

Also no PvP mage with a clue is going to go over 33% crit when currently our only damage that matters is our shatter damage.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
13125
If shatter didn't scale like it is, we would just be gaining haste instead of crit from our gear. I actually prefer this model that doesn't leave one of our stats completely trivialized.
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- World of Warcraft
90 Human Mage
10015
As a damage multiplier, it would interact with Frostburn in a pretty horrifying way.

They actually tried a version that increased damage rather than increasing crit rate, in either very late alpha or very early beta. It didn't work out.
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OMG, we are like 6 years into WoW. How can we still have such GREAT THINKERS, thinking soo SMALL..

We need ASTRONOMICALLY NEW things, like a REAL Ice Wall. Or a REAL wall of fog that blinds everyone in a HUGE area. How about Ice-Travel form? You know, like from Frozone in the Incredibles? Pfft, I'd settle for Ice-Skates on a frozen pond at this point.

Instead, we are already accepting the REMOVAL of fun things like frostbite, knock back on blastwave, how about the impact from WAY back when it proc'd on all spells? ~~cry~~ I never got to try Incanter's Absorption before it was NERFED to only work off mana shield.

Seriously, as we look forward to cata as-is, we look forward to what, 3 new spells? Wouldn't it be BETTER to take our energies and ask (BEG) for NEW stuff?
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87 Orc Warrior
OP
6475
Making it damage would make shatter even more bursty

wuth reforging it really shouldn't be an issue
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People seem to have missed this part -
- instead of leaving that as our mastery.


I really think they need to change Frost's mastery, more than I think shatter might need changes, but I've already made a thread on that here -
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=27607457837&sid=1
so I won't ramble about it in this thread too much.

And @ Deepwounds as I said, difficult gearing isn't the issue, it's scaling problems. And as I also said, I'm suggesting it take the place of our mastery, so that our mastery can be something that scales more evenly(see thread I linked above).
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- World of Warcraft
90 Human Mage
10015
People seem to have missed this part -
- instead of leaving that as our mastery.


Not so much "missed" as "dismissed because it'll never happen." Mastery is meant to make us better at something special our spec does, and Frostburn accomplishes this.
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People seem to have missed this part -
- instead of leaving that as our mastery.


Not so much "missed" as "dismissed because it'll never happen." Mastery is meant to make us better at something special our spec does, and Frostburn accomplishes this.


Frost needs a new mastery or it will be a joke in PvP, I will never agree with you on this it seems. Shatter damage was not something we needed to have buffed that much, moving all our damage into shatters has made us purely gimmicky burst in PvP and necessitated ridiculously low damage outside of shatter. And, as I've now edited into the OP, it will get worse as our gear improves due to our mastery.
Edited by Lampbug on 11/13/2010 8:55 AM PST
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34 Gnome Rogue
150



Frost needs a new mastery or it will be a joke in PvP, I will never agree with you on this it seems. Shatter damage was not something we needed to have buffed that much, moving all our damage into shatters has made us purely gimmicky burst in PvP and necessitated ridiculously low damage outside of shatter. And, as I've now edited into the OP, it will get worse as our gear improves due to our mastery.


Frost mages worried about PvP viability?
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Frost needs a new mastery or it will be a joke in PvP, I will never agree with you on this it seems. Shatter damage was not something we needed to have buffed that much, moving all our damage into shatters has made us purely gimmicky burst in PvP and necessitated ridiculously low damage outside of shatter. And, as I've now edited into the OP, it will get worse as our gear improves due to our mastery.


Frost mages worried about PvP viability?


Not PvP viability exactly, but our PvP play style. Our viability will depend pretty much on just how ridiculous our shatter burst is. From what I've heard from PvP mages on beta though, we're much weaker @ 85 than on live and dispels absolutely cripple us.
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Or a REAL wall of fog that blinds everyone in a HUGE area. How about Ice-Travel form?

I support this mans morals!
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