Water Elemental 3min CD?

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100 Dwarf Paladin
18340
Why is there still a 3min CD on Water Elemental?
Hunters and Warlocks don't have 3min CDs on their pets.
Even the Unholy DK only has a 2min CD on their pet.
It's not like the Water Elemental is OP that it needs a CD so you can't keep on summoning it.
The DK pet is a lot more powerful and has a 1min shorter CD.
What gives?
100 Dwarf Paladin
18340
Considering that the Water Elemental is a "staple" of frost mages, and our special "skill" from the frost tree, having it get killed in 2secs in BGs and waiting for 3min doesn't seem right.
Imagine having the ability to somehow damage Mortal Strike and take that away from an arms warrior for 3min.
How fast would the arms warriors be crying?
As well, summoning a ghoul is a base ability for DKs.
Water Elemental is on the same level as Scourge Strike, Frost Strike, and Heart Strike.
Imagine being able to "kill" those abilities and making the DK wait 3min for using them again.
Edited by Fir on 11/17/2010 1:51 AM PST
100 Dwarf Paladin
18340
I guess because we have cold snap.


Right... so, let's think about this.

Make Mortal Strike killable and give it a 3min CD.
Then, increase Deadly Calm to an 8min CD and make it refresh Mortal Strike CD.
Yeah... that would make the warriors happy.

You can easily replace Mortal Strike with every other base ability from talents and warriors with any other class.
Run the though experiment and tell me what you come up with.
100 Dwarf Paladin
18340
Ask an arms warrior about Bladestorm disarms.


OK, let's compare.

Water Elemental can be taken away by any class and spec that can do damage - all of them.
It has a 3min CD.

Bladestorm is only disarm-able by rogues, warriors, and some hunter pets.
It has a 1.5min CD.
90 Human Mage
8235
Warlocks and hunters have to channel a spell in order to revive/summon their pets, whereas mages summon them instantly.

That would be your reason.
100 Dwarf Paladin
18340
Warlocks and hunters have to channel a spell in order to revive/summon their pets, whereas mages summon them instantly.

That would be your reason.


Hunters have a 10sec cast and Warlocks have a 6sec cast.
Both are affected by haste.
Not only can they summon their pet while still fighting - CC then get pet back - but it's a minor inconvenience if the coast is clear after battle.
Mages, on the other hand, have to wait 3min after repeated combats.
90 Human Mage
8235
Warlocks and hunters have to channel a spell in order to revive/summon their pets, whereas mages summon them instantly.

That would be your reason.


Hunters have a 10sec cast and Warlocks have a 6sec cast.
Both are affected by haste.
Not only can they summon their pet while still fighting - CC then get pet back - but it's a minor inconvenience if the coast is clear after battle.
Mages, on the other hand, have to wait 3min after repeated combats.


Whether the inconvenience is great or moderate/minimal to the Warlock or Hunter, I'd argue that having a pet instantly summoned back into the fight, not missing a beat, is definately an advantage. Your arguement also doesn't account for the time it takes for you to get out of the emeny's LoS, and doesn't account for the cooldowns your partners may have to use in order to ensure you get your cast off (Psychic Scream) that cpuld have otherwise been used more offensively to score a kill.

I truly do think that having a cooldown is worth being able to have our elementals instantly rejoin the battle. I wouldn't argue against reducing it to two minutes or so.
Edited by Azryu on 11/17/2010 3:57 AM PST
85 Dwarf Mage
8265
Hey guys I think every ability other classes have is equal to the ability my class has. I will now make ridiculous comparisons and not take into account all factors to prove to you the first statement is true. I will then make a bunch of suggestions that will further unbalance this game if taken into effect.
100 Dwarf Paladin
18340
It made sense to have the Water Elemental on a 3min CD before 4.0 changes, since it was a DPS boost.
Now, it is no longer a DPS boost in that sense, and it is a permanent pet without need to glyph.
Therefore, the 3min CD needs to be re-evaluated and compared to base talent skills of other classes, and it needs to be compared to pets of other classes.

You cannot take away the base talent ability of any other class by killing it, other than a frost mage.
As such, it seems redicilous to have to wait 3min to get it back.
Hence, comparing it with Mortal Strike, or any other base talent ability.
Yes it's true, demo locks have one that can be killed.
However, they have talents to get it back instantly, talents to reduce the cast time to 5secs, and it's a 6sec cast reduced by haste in the first place.

Any comparisons with Water Elemental and abilities other than base talent ones were unintentional.
They were also brought into this thread by others, not me.
I have simply tried to show that Bladestorm is not a good example.

As well, while it may be beneficial to have two instant re-summons, once you use it the first time and blow your Cold Snap, you have to wait 3min every other time.
And that's if you don't use Cold Snap before your pet dies the first time, otherwise it's just one re-summon.
So, unless we are talking about initial contact, with fresh CDs, having that 3min CD is much worse than being able to summon your pet with a 5,6 or 10 sec cast, modified by haste.
90 Human Mage
8235
It made sense to have the Water Elemental on a 3min CD before 4.0 changes, since it was a DPS boost.
Now, it is no longer a DPS boost in that sense, and it is a permanent pet without need to glyph.
Therefore, the 3min CD needs to be re-evaluated and compared to base talent skills of other classes, and it needs to be compared to pets of other classes.

You cannot take away the base talent ability of any other class by killing it, other than a frost mage.
As such, it seems redicilous to have to wait 3min to get it back.
Hence, comparing it with Mortal Strike, or any other base talent ability.
Yes it's true, demo locks have one that can be killed.
However, they have talents to get it back instantly, talents to reduce the cast time to 5secs, and it's a 6sec cast reduced by haste in the first place.

Any comparisons with Water Elemental and abilities other than base talent ones were unintentional.
They were also brought into this thread by others, not me.
I have simply tried to show that Bladestorm is not a good example.

As well, while it may be beneficial to have two instant re-summons, once you use it the first time and blow your Cold Snap, you have to wait 3min every other time.
And that's if you don't use Cold Snap before your pet dies the first time, otherwise it's just one re-summon.
So, unless we are talking about initial contact, with fresh CDs, having that 3min CD is much worse than being able to summon your pet with a 5,6 or 10 sec cast, modified by haste.


I'd almost say slap a 6-10 second cast time on Summon Water Elemental, then make a talent that works like Early frost, which will reduce the cast time of summoning a water elemental by 100%, and has an internal cooldown of [X] minutes/seconds.

Edit: I'd only think this is a good idea if it reduces the cast time by 100%. Spawning it instantly is not something I agree parting with just for the sake of being able to cast a summon whenever I like.
Edited by Azryu on 11/17/2010 4:55 AM PST
85 Human Mage
7770

Yes it's true, demo locks have one that can be killed.
However, they have talents to get it back instantly, talents to reduce the cast time to 5secs, and it's a 6sec cast reduced by haste in the first place.


You do realize that Mages (Frost too) are just as effective having a pet as not having one? While Unholy always had a pet on such a short cooldown also baffled me, I wouldn't complain.

Warlock pets are a staple to their survivability. There's a reason when you gib their pets, their survivability drastically drops to a point where they almost have none. Affliction more so. They become the focus target by anyone sensible.

There's your reason as to why they can get a pet out faster than us. Our pet does a substantial amount of damage (would like to see Waterbolt with a faster cast time though) and gives us an ability to peel and do damage faster. We are just as efficient with a pet as without.


Stop crying.
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