thanks for fixing our heals..but what about.

85 Human Priest
7735
Holy will have it's regen at 85 on par with other healing classes if they choose to pick up Archangel. That will give us a short CD healing buff and the ability(like other healers) to regain mana through attacks. It's coming, be patient.


Please know what you're talking about before you respond. On the current beta build archangel returns 1% mana per stack as opposed to lives 5% mana per stack. At this rate you would need an unreachable amount of mana in order to actually gain mana and offset the mana spent on smite to gather the stacks.


The question is then more "at what gear level is it better to Smite than to Heal, given that Atonement has targets to heal?"


i left all the previous quotes in there so you could read them. please don't launch into a whole post about atonement when holy cannot reach that talent. the posts you were reading were about holy priests.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
4055
What about... the priest whiners?


They are getting annoying right?

"Hey look we get buffs. QQ QQ QQ"


People are still QQing because the problems the class has aren't being addressed. More healing on our base single target heals is nice, but it's not something most of us were concerned about. Priests don't have the efficiency or the personal survivability to be competent in PVP.

When I'm on my Paladin or my friends Druid it's just like, "Oh. So this is what healing is supposed to be like". I'm easily able to keep people alive, and when when I'm focused I have ways of dealing with it. With Priests healing is slow and complicated, and if someone so much as looks at you you're done for.

It's not a coincidence that Priests started complaining at the same time. People know their classes. They know when something's very wrong.
Reply Quote


(It's 3%/stack on live.)

Are you taking into account the 18 seconds with +15% healing, also? I don't mean to say it's wrong, but everyone I've seen has focused solely on the mana itself, but there are two effects happening there. The +heal is devalued a fair amount from not affecting PWS, but the recent 20% buff to priest Heals and PoH is a significant consideration, also.

Granted, there's still the issue of actually casting five Smites, but Smite scales with spell power at a considerably higher rate than Heal does. The question is then more "at what gear level is it better to Smite than to Heal, given that Atonement has targets to heal?" and I think the answer to that is pretty low, even with only a 5% return on Archangel, since Smite will easily yield a higher HPS than Heal with an even higher HPM due to the return of mana, in addition to 18 seconds with +15% to normal healing. This, however, assumes that Archangel is used for efficient healing, rather than mana regeneration as AA was originally advertised. I see this as more of an issue of clarity on the developers' parts than an actual issue.


I think primarily we're discussing Holy mana regen, or at least the posts you were quoting were discussing that. In that case, Atonement doesn't even come into the equation as that is not accessible to holy priests, so the 5 smites you cast do absolutely nothing other than minimal dps and waste mana. The 15% bonus healing you receive for 18 seconds is not worth the ~8-10 seconds you waste doing no healing trying to build that up. Not to mention a net loss in mana.
Reply Quote
20 Human Paladin
300
A lot of different things have added up to make disc very weak in Cata arena now. Two of the biggest are the removal of the talents that reduced the duration of many forms of cc and the removal of the talents which reduced the cast time of mana burn for disc. Those are pretty serious hits to disc arena. There were solid overall game design reasons behind both of those nerfs, but they've really left disc in a bad spot when you add in the same old low survivability, the apparent failure of the healing-by-smite design that was supposed to be disc's unique "thing" in pvp, and the mana issues.
Edited by Johayn on 11/17/2010 12:48 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
7550

that's what happens when there are a lot of things still wrong and only 1 problem out many are getting fixed.



i think there's a major disconnect between perceived problems and actual ones.


Seriously, as a Shaman and assuming you have a Holy Priest alt, you don't see problems with the priest model? BTW, what is the difference between perceived problems and actual ones? Who makes that call? You? Historically, have you ever seen this much discussion from the generally and relatively docile priest class across releases in general?



Not to be rude, but there are a lot more priests now then there use to be. People didn't want to be a holy priest because it required to much thinking compared to other healing classes. In wraith it was a whole lot of Spamming one or two spells so anyone could be "good" at it.
Most of those priests that have been around a while have faith in blizzard to fix what VERY few problems we have (PvE wise).

PvP, well I find that a lot of QQ on the forums has to do with PvP and since Disc did lose a lot of it's survivability talents like focused will and Blessed Recovery (or whatever it was called).
They are really having to relearn the whole class. This is exasperated even more by trying to make Disc a viable Raid healer. tbh I think blizz is trying to do too much with the spec and as a whole it is suffering for it.
Reply Quote
85 Goblin Shaman
2665
Seriously, as a Shaman and assuming you have a Holy Priest alt, you don't see problems with the priest model? BTW, what is the difference between perceived problems and actual ones? Who makes that call? You? Historically, have you ever seen this much discussion from the generally and relatively docile priest class across releases in general?


Priest have not been quiet about their self-perceived shortcomings since Shamans/Pallies got buffed for Ulduar.

The QQ quieted down from the Discs because of HLK. I'm not sure what forums you're reading, but Priests have been complaining forever.
Reply Quote

Are you taking into account the 18 seconds with +15% healing, also? I don't mean to say it's wrong, but everyone I've seen has focused solely on the mana itself, but there are two effects happening there. The +heal is devalued a fair amount from not affecting PWS, but the recent 20% buff to priest Heals and PoH is a significant consideration, also.

Granted, there's still the issue of actually casting five Smites, but Smite scales with spell power at a considerably higher rate than Heal does. The question is then more "at what gear level is it better to Smite than to Heal, given that Atonement has targets to heal?" and I think the answer to that is pretty low, even with only a 5% return on Archangel, since Smite will easily yield a higher HPS than Heal with an even higher HPM due to the return of mana, in addition to 18 seconds with +15% to normal healing. This, however, assumes that Archangel is used for efficient healing, rather than mana regeneration as AA was originally advertised. I see this as more of an issue of clarity on the developers' parts than an actual issue.


I have to respond to this. Except in trash fights, you don't really smite to heal. You smite because everything is in control and the smites make the fights go a bit faster. Further, in trash fights, you only ever get five smites off at the END of the fight. Which means that archangel is really ONLY good for the mana management and topping people off with more effective renews.

As to the "thanks" above, I have to assume that it is directed to some change in BETA because what I am experiencing is this:

    * At around 3300 spellpower (unbuffed), my discipline priest (formerly holy priest) with 3 grace stacks on her and Greater Heal on myself.. I get heals of 9-11k with 15k crits.

    * My druid with about 1800 spellpower and no buffs (not even grace), gets the same amount of healing from Healing Touch, 9-11k with 15k crits (with a 10% chance to proc a 5k heal if target takes damage in the next 10-15 seconds). Further the druid comes with neat abilities such as incombat rez, innervate, efflorescence (which is WORLDS better than Chakra and costs less talent points and less management than Chakra), the ability to switch to a TANK spec, a casting dps spec, a melee dps spec and the ability to SURVIVE in pvp.

    * A holy paladin friend with 2600 spellpower gets 22k with his three second heals (25k crits).


To quote a favorite movie "you think a little head jiggle is supposed to make me happy?"
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
14640


As to the "thanks" above, I have to assume that it is directed to some change in BETA because what I am experiencing is this:

    * At around 3300 spellpower (unbuffed), my discipline priest (formerly holy priest) with 3 grace stacks on her and Greater Heal on myself.. I get heals of 9-11k with 15k crits.

    * My druid with about 1800 spellpower and no buffs (not even grace), gets the same amount of healing from Healing Touch, 9-11k with 15k crits (with a 10% chance to proc a 5k heal if target takes damage in the next 10-15 seconds). Further the druid comes with neat abilities such as incombat rez, innervate, efflorescence (which is WORLDS better than Chakra and costs less talent points and less management than Chakra), the ability to switch to a TANK spec, a casting dps spec, a melee dps spec and the ability to SURVIVE in pvp.

    * A holy paladin friend with 2600 spellpower gets 22k with his three second heals (25k crits).


To quote a favorite movie "you think a little head jiggle is supposed to make me happy?"



Directly comparing heals is a pretty silly thing to do cross class. My 85 shaman premade's GHW (big heal) heals for 18500, while my disc's Greater Heal heals for 25000 (with grace). The shaman's heal also cost more mana.

The problem with that comparison is that each healer has extra things that interact with those heals like riptide and renewed hope. You have to look at the whole toolkit of a class to get an idea of if they need help or not.
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
3120

i think there's a major disconnect between perceived problems and actual ones.



Players: priest have major mana issues.
Devs: here is a 20% increase to single target heals
Players: but priest have major mana issues.
Devs: you got your fix, now stop crying

Do you see the major disconnect between what players want and what devs are giving them ?
Reply Quote
More healing done = less heals needed = less mana used = more mana for the priest
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
3120
More healing done = less heals needed = less mana used = more mana for the priest


Because most of the priests healing is coming from single target heals.
Right....
Reply Quote
More healing done = less heals needed = less mana used = more mana for the priest


Because most of the priests healing is coming from single target heals.
Right....


You're supposed to use your efficient heals as much as possible... An increase to your efficient heals makes a huge difference in managing mana.
Reply Quote
80 Draenei Mage
1320

i think there's a major disconnect between perceived problems and actual ones.



Players: priest have major mana issues.
Devs: here is a 20% increase to single target heals
Players: but priest have major mana issues.
Devs: you got your fix, now stop crying

Do you see the major disconnect between what players want and what devs are giving them ?


Blizzard said quite some time ago that the priest heals weren't healing for enough and would be fixed. This change has nothing to do with the players complaining about mana.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
10090

Blizzard said quite some time ago that the priest heals weren't healing for enough and would be fixed. This change has nothing to do with the players complaining about mana.



As the OP underlined, Devs are out sync with the problems seen by priests and the fixes they just implemented.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Priest
2880
Sad time to be a pvp priest.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
7550

And, to the person you addressed who is very positive about priest - more power to you. I will hopefully be the recipient of your underwhelming heals for as long as you can put them out. Which means I had better hide behind a pillar - because you won't have either the mana or the GCD to help me out.


I did mention my viewpoint was from a PvE perspective. In that environment you are more than welcome to my heals which I assure you will last long enough and be more than sufficient to keep you alive as long as any other available class.

I really couldn't care less about PvP balance. IMO speed and reflexes=/=skill. and I have always been more of a fan of the larger teams associated with raiding rather than just the 1 or 2 you are with in arena.

If you are happy with priest mechanics as it is and have faith in Blizzard, that's cool. I'd be very surprised to actually see evidence of holy priest growth relative to population growth, but hey, I'll take your word for it.

If you are speaking for the entire priest class, I'm not getting the same vibe. I can only speak for myself. I'm not happy with the changes and I believe the problems to be conceptual/logical model ones and not implementation/numbers ones..they seem to be the antithesis of what the holy priest concept was about. I feel constrained, unnecessarily. Complexity for complexities sake. These feelings and observations are recently born, exactly the opposite of when I first leveled my priest to 80, when playing my priest was liberating and exciting.


Let me try and clarify what I said. Back in end-game BC Holy Priests had 3-4 ranks of Gheal 2-3 ranks of Fheal 2 ranks of CoH, plus all the other healing spells we had. Not to mention the priest racials Desperate Prayer, Consume Magic etc.. All in all our Keybinds/action bars had A LOT more spells and most of them had the same graphic. This generation of priests are CELEBRATING that we got Heal back. We took months to get use to spamming Fheal and longed for the days of using Gheal (which back then cost more than the shaman/Paladin equivalents but due to the regen model was actually more efficient).


The overall WoW population that saw that and felt their opinion was justified by seeing that content (Illidan + SWP) was roughly ~7% The rest of the priest population looked to these guys for advice becuase they had been through the hardest bliz could throw at us and prospered.

Now the playerbase that has seen the LK encounter and halion encounter is >>7%. This xpac bred a certain kind of healer that was different than the previous one. just like the BC generation was different than the vanilla.

With that being said, the healing model in Cata is much closer to what we saw in BC than in Wraith or Vanilla. So the priests that were around in BC have a better idea of what to do and how to adapt to a mana-restrictive environment. It is these guys I think I try to speak for. Granted not all of them will agree with it that much is for certain. But as whole we do have a more optimistic view of our class since we already have an idea how to adapt to the "new" healing model and can see where the new abilities fill holes that were left by our losing the old Holy Concentration and Imp Holy Conc and our other talents that have gone out the window to make room for this new stuff.

Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]