Flex Magic Number

90 Orc Warrior
10790
Just wondering as I can't seem to find any reference, is there a magic number to which flex would be the 'easiest' based on the number in your raid. Also does the loot scale at certain thresholds which could influence this?

Thanks in advance!
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90 Night Elf Rogue
3140
In my experience, gear on the players is some combination of both reflection and refraction of the skill of each same said player, when taken as individuals or the groups they form up to gear with. As far as pure, hard numbers, all raids in game a set with the premise of 10 or 25 person raid groups.

This question is likely better answered with another question: "Do we as a raid have the skill to go into Flex and reasonably perform well?"

If I may please be so bold, that is...?
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90 Human Paladin
15835
10 good players it's easy.

25 good players it's easy.

anything less than that, and it's annoying.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
6680
Easiest runs I have seen were 14-16 people with 3-4 healers. With this setup you usually avoid the nasty 25 man mechanics (like more prisons on Sha of Pride) but you also have a higher percentage of your players that are DPS than typical raids. Then again, I have a regular group on the horde side that just stomps through it because we are slightly overgeared
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Community Manager
Some people have worked out that there are specific break points for specific mechanics of some bosses that change the makeup of the fight. It isn't consistent though from boss to boss, and so no there's no magic number.

Ultimately if you're trying to min/max Flex by not inviting more people that want to go and who would help build a successful team, you're overthinking it.
Edited by Bashiok on 10/15/2013 11:56 AM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
8560
In my experience, gear on the players is some combination of both reflection and refraction of the skill of each same said player, when taken as individuals or the groups they form up to gear with. As far as pure, hard numbers, all raids in game a set with the premise of 10 or 25 person raid groups.

This question is likely better answered with another question: "Do we as a raid have the skill to go into Flex and reasonably perform well?"

If I may please be so bold, that is...?


My brain hurts from trying to understand this.

@ the OP, I haven't heard of said "magic number", however I have heard several people reference this in game, or refuse to add another player because of some apparent magic figure, which seems to be 14 (as in 14 people is the max before you push to 25 man mechanics). No idea if it's true or not.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11825
25 excellent players will result in the lowest relative tuning level. As for mechanically, there is no "sweet spot". If you invite an extra person and it causes (for example) an extra voidzone on Malkorok, but the person you invited never fails to soak a voidzone, it didn't really get "harder" for the raid.
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90 Troll Shaman
12915
17 people

4 healers, 2 tanks, 11 dps

you can probably do it with 3 good healers, and 12 dps
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90 Night Elf Priest
11670
Some people have worked out that there are specific break points for specific mechanics of some bosses that change the makeup of the fight. It isn't consistent though from boss to boss, and so no there's no magic number.

Ultimately if you're trying to min/max Flex by not inviting more people that want to go and who would help build a successful team, you're overthinking it.


Sounds like propaganda to me.

Though I do agree that magic numbers aren't very important considering the low tuning of flex.
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90 Draenei Paladin
16840
People are actually searching for "magic numbers" in Flex?

It's supposed to be a fun relatively low stress environment compared to Normal Raiding without it degenerating into LFR.

As long as the people you invite are even semi competent there should be no issues.

Lordy people getting turned away from Flex for the sake of a magic number.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
3140
In my experience, gear on the players is some combination of both reflection and refraction of the skill of each same said player, when taken as individuals or the groups they form up to gear with. As far as pure, hard numbers, all raids in game a set with the premise of 10 or 25 person raid groups.

This question is likely better answered with another question: "Do we as a raid have the skill to go into Flex and reasonably perform well?"

If I may please be so bold, that is...?


My brain hurts from trying to understand this.


Bring skill, not just some arbitrary number of players. Encounters vary.
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Some people have worked out that there are specific break points for specific mechanics of some bosses that change the makeup of the fight. It isn't consistent though from boss to boss, and so no there's no magic number.

Ultimately if you're trying to min/max Flex by not inviting more people that want to go and who would help build a successful team, you're overthinking it.


I thought about that too a few times. But then a Talking Tree drooling slime from its eerily carved mouth spoke to me and said...

"You are overthinking it".

It was at that point I decided to reflect back on my life choices and began to think the talking Fire Cat, Crab, Ghostly Skull, and Pug weren't my imagination. Although the Crab keeps telling me to "Walk the Pug"... whatever that means.
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In my experience, gear on the players is some combination of both reflection and refraction of the skill of each same said player, when taken as individuals or the groups they form up to gear with. As far as pure, hard numbers, all raids in game a set with the premise of 10 or 25 person raid groups.

This question is likely better answered with another question: "Do we as a raid have the skill to go into Flex and reasonably perform well?"

If I may please be so bold, that is...?


My brain hurts from trying to understand this.

@ the OP, I haven't heard of said "magic number", however I have heard several people reference this in game, or refuse to add another player because of some apparent magic figure, which seems to be 14 (as in 14 people is the max before you push to 25 man mechanics). No idea if it's true or not.


This is pedantic nonsense. You just rambled with large words and intricate connotations with no point whatsoever.
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90 Worgen Mage
20350
The only thing to really be concerned about in flex is if you have enough healers to support the influx of DPS that always want to come
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90 Troll Shaman
8970
People are actually searching for "magic numbers" in Flex?

It's supposed to be a fun relatively low stress environment compared to Normal Raiding without it degenerating into LFR.

As long as the people you invite are even semi competent there should be no issues.

Lordy people getting turned away from Flex for the sake of a magic number.


I've actually seen people rage out because an extra healer got invited. Boy did I have a good laugh. It wasn't just one either like 3 people instantly started crying over it.
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90 Night Elf Priest
11670
This is pedantic nonsense. You just rambled with large words and intricate connotations with no point whatsoever.


This statement is an irony in itself.

Edit: but I do agree. "Reflection and refraction?"
Edited by Lmcm on 10/15/2013 12:10 PM PDT
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MVP - Technical Support
90 Human Warrior
18580
10/15/2013 12:09 PMPosted by Digerati
The only thing to really be concerned about in flex is if you have enough healers to support the influx of DPS that always want to come


This is really all. If you have 2 healers 2 tanks and 10 dps, you may actually struggle, damage with 14 people greater than damage with 10 and you have to understand the points where you need to add new healers to adjust to damage intake changes.

Flex comes down to, does adding another player mean things get harder or easier (ie is that player actually useful or dead weight). The way the bosses scale, they actually don't scale linearly. It actually gets more generous more players you have. But only if those players are carrying their weight.
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