WoG question and more

90 Draenei Paladin
8390
So, I have a question about WoG and weather or not my guild leader is right or not.
(If armoy updates), I have a decent amount of gear,everything is above at least 522 with the exception of one trinket. My GL, a former Heroic raider said that when I'm tanking, I shouldnt even bother with the 4p t16 or using EF/WoG, just keeping SotR up constantly, letting my raid healers worry about my hp.

Are they right about all this? I have a very sneaky suspicion that they might be wrong, though I'd like to know if they were even right in the first place.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
10220
Your guild leader has an archaic mindset that's so wrong it hurts my face.

First off, the set bonus makes it free. It's free. Free. Second off, prot healing scales insanely with vengeance and stacks of Bastion of Glory. Your healing is part of your mitigation, if it wasn't, it wouldn't be tied to your mastery.

The more you heal yourself with your insanely powerful self heals, the more the healers can focus on raid healing, dispelling, or whatever the hell healers do.

Lets look at it closer.

You have a choice. You're sitting at 5 stacks of Bastion of Glory and your whole raid just took raid damage, and everyone is sitting at about 50-65% life. Would you rather spend 3 holy power to reduce incoming physical damage to yourself by 50% for 3 seconds, of completely heal the damage you've taken and put a super powered 30 second hot on yourself that will auto nullify minor damage for 30 seconds?

The mindset of DPS are only to DPS, tanks only hold aggro, and healers heal is ridiculously outdated. You do what you can, when you can, however you can. If I, as a Ret Paladin, can throw a life saving SH Flash of Light to save a healer at 10%, I'm gonna do it. Screw my DPS. I want to kill the boss.

TLDR; Your GL is super wrong.
Edited by Andhar on 10/28/2013 8:52 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
17175
Yeah, it's well established that EF is THE tanking talent of choice this tier, so if your GL is saying not to bother with it then they're just flat out wrong, it's even well worth using when you DON'T have the 4p because it's just THAT strong. Add in that the 4p makes it free to keep up and that makes it probably the best tankadin set bonus we've had all expansion (as well as making EF even more of an obvious choice).
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
21020
Yeah, it's well established that EF is THE tanking talent of choice this tier, so if your GL is saying not to bother with it then they're just flat out wrong

Not true at all since the ef nerf few weeks back. They're both pretty even now, chose what fits your playstyle more.
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100 Tauren Druid
17385
10/28/2013 01:14 PMPosted by Majintherm
Not true at all since the ef nerf few weeks back. They're both pretty even now, chose what fits your playstyle more.

The hot from EF ticks twice as many times as SS, so EF is better.

So far, the only argument against EF is that you generate too much threat from the heals, agroing adds in the Garrosh encounter you don't want to agro, but this can be fixed by simply clicking off the hot I suppose, then reapply when appropriate.
Edited by Sheepherdr on 10/28/2013 1:30 PM PDT
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93 Dwarf Paladin
14825
So far, the only argument against EF is that you generate too much threat from the heals, agroing adds in the Garrosh encounter you don't want to agro, but this can be fixed by simply clicking off the hot I suppose, then reapply when appropriate.


Salvation.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
4890
10/28/2013 01:14 PMPosted by Majintherm
Yeah, it's well established that EF is THE tanking talent of choice this tier, so if your GL is saying not to bother with it then they're just flat out wrong

Not true at all since the ef nerf few weeks back. They're both pretty even now, chose what fits your playstyle more.


nope.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
11365
Take eternal flame and use it w/ your Bastion of glory... its a nicely set up rotation. should be able to keep up EF while you build five more Bastion stacks... particularily more sustainable w/ the T16 4 piece (Free EF when above 3 stacks of bastion). It's also off the GCD, which SS (the other viable talent on that tier) is on the GCD. You can also use it for emergency heals when not tanking but u still got that vengeance running :)
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
17175
10/28/2013 01:14 PMPosted by Majintherm
Yeah, it's well established that EF is THE tanking talent of choice this tier, so if your GL is saying not to bother with it then they're just flat out wrong

Not true at all since the ef nerf few weeks back. They're both pretty even now, chose what fits your playstyle more.
No, the nerf didn't come close to making them even. The nerf was effectively only a 25% reduction on the hot, a substantial nerf for sure, but keep in mind that before the nerf the EF hot was healing for about 6~7 times as much as a full 30 seconds of SS absorbed. After the nerf it still heals for 4~5 times as much, and that's not factoring in the base heal (or the set bonus).

It made it so that EF was only "much better" than SS rather than being "ridiculously better", but it's still THE tanking talent this tier by a decent margin.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
21020
I guess the main tanks in a lot of top guilds need to read whats new
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90 Tauren Paladin
8640
Basically what other people have said... your GL is still stuck in the past, and being a bit of an idiot... EF ticks for a metric ton, scales with vengeance, and with 4pc T16 it literally costs nothing to refresh.

Any healing you do is the same as mitigation, as it is damage that the healer does not have to worry about, which is exactly why you mitigate damage in the first place.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
16050
I guess the main tanks in a lot of top guilds need to read whats new

You mean like http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/twilights-hammer/Kultziliini/advanced or http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/azshara/Cayouz/advanced or maybe http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/lightnings-blade/Fraggoji/advanced ?

And world top paladins are still poor example since often enough the go odd builds simply due to doing content undergeared (ie absalom from BL, who afaik stacked stamina entire expansion)
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