Siegecrafter Hunter trick: exploit?

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90 Human Hunter
14835
Why waste a DPS by keeping them on the belt? Why waste time by trying to line the jump perfectly? Sounds too risky to ever be useful.


Just wait until you try heroic. There is a team on the belt full time, basically. One team is getting on as soon as the other is getting off and running back.
90 Night Elf Rogue
9030
Sounds like an exploit. They specifically set it so rogues couldn't get up there, I just imagine they didn't think about Disengage. Who knows, maybe they just wanted to make fights even easier for RDPS :P
90 Blood Elf Hunter
20175
10/31/2013 12:57 PMPosted by Azivalla
Why waste a DPS by keeping them on the belt? Why waste time by trying to line the jump perfectly? Sounds too risky to ever be useful.

It's super easy to do, I don't see why keeping a hunter on it fulltime would be a dps loss compared to someone else constantly running there and back?
Hardest part is honestly trying to dismiss your pet while dodging all the crap downstairs before you disengage up. Can almost solo the belt every wave now because of inflated ilvl anyway.
90 Night Elf Hunter
10920
Still hoping for Blue clarification.
90 Blood Elf Hunter
20175
They hotfixed (nerfed) the health of the belt weapons yesterday on normal/heroic, so maybe they broke disengaging up.
90 Night Elf Hunter
10920
Bump for an answer.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13850
Why waste a DPS by keeping them on the belt? Why waste time by trying to line the jump perfectly? Sounds too risky to ever be useful.


It frees up another dps to full on tunnel the boss, which in 99% of situations is a raid DPS increase when you compare it to both the hunter and the other dps taking time to get to the belt and back.
90 Worgen Warlock
14465
Pretty much all "clever usage of game mechanics" are basically exploits. You are supposed to use the pipe to get onto the belt, and receive the debuff for doing so.

I find it sad that people feel the need to question "strategies" like this. I would hope people would understand that when Blizzard designs a mechanic that is supposed to limit something (or what have you) that getting around that mechanic is an exploit.

Some people like to try to say it's not clear cut, but those people are also the ones who look for these kinds of things, and attempt to justify it because otherwise they admit that their kill wasn't legit.

Saying not using the pipe is ok is like being in a race with a specific path, and cutting through the woods because you found a fence to climb over.
Edited by Varlth on 11/1/2013 6:30 PM PDT
I find it sad that people feel the need to question "strategies" like this. I would hope people would understand that when Blizzard designs a mechanic that is supposed to limit something (or what have you) that getting around that mechanic is an exploit.

Some people like to try to say it's not clear cut, but those people are also the ones who look for these kinds of things, and attempt to justify it because otherwise they admit that their kill wasn't legit.


People that are arguing that it's fine are doing so based on Blizzard's decision to break other ways of bypassing the pipes but not the disengage strat, despite knowing about it. Why did they allow the disengage trick? I have no !@#$ing idea. Probably so hunters can suffer from the constant pet bugs on the belt.

It doesn't notably break the fight. You can't solo each belt, so unless you're stacking hunters you still have rotating teams, and arguably the belt (and mines...) are the only dps checks in the fight. The rest is just survival.
Edited by Evry on 11/1/2013 6:38 PM PDT
90 Draenei Hunter
9300
because if it takes 5 seconds of work to fix Hunters, that would be 5 seconds more than they've spent the entire xpac on Hunter bugs.
90 Worgen Warlock
14465
People that are arguing that it's fine are doing so based on Blizzard's decision to break other ways of bypassing the pipes but not the disengage strat, despite knowing about it. Why did they allow the disengage trick? I have no !@#$ing idea. Probably so hunters can suffer from the constant pet bugs on the belt.


Maybe they weren't aware of it when it got fixed. Maybe because it's not as easy as people think it should be to fix. Maybe because hunters setting up being on the belt is so hard/impossible it wasn't worth the resources to fix it. Does that mean it's a-go for doing the strat? I would say no. It's pretty obvious the debuff is meant to be applied. If anything, I'd argue that breaking ways to not get to debuff, even if they don't get all of them, is proof that getting around the debuff is an exploit.

Regardless, Blizzard isn't always the greatest at fixing things. Their website is a damn mess for example.

It doesn't notably break the fight. You can't solo each belt, so unless you're stacking hunters you still have rotating teams, and arguably the belt (and mines...) are the only dps checks in the fight. The rest is just survival.


I'm not asking for punishment or screaming for justice. I don't think it really matters how much it does/doesn't break the fight. I just find it comical that people really can't decide whether it's a legit strategy or not.

Is it legit? I would say not.

Will you get banned for it because it's a Gara'jal game-breaking exploit? Extremely doubtful.

Does that make it ok? I would say not.
Maybe they weren't aware of it when it got fixed

You're right. It's plausible that when they saw the rogues shadow-stepping to the hunter, they missed where the hunter disengaged up there in the first place. Every single belt.
All it would take is an invisible wall. How much that breaks the teleporting back, and the effect on jumping off, might be tricky

11/01/2013 06:51 PMPosted by Varlth
I'm not asking for punishment or screaming for justice. I don't think it really matters how much it does/doesn't break the fight.

Some people like to try to say it's not clear cut, but those people are also the ones who look for these kinds of things, and attempt to justify it because otherwise they admit that their kill wasn't legit.


go kill the fight on heroic then let me know what you think about this exploit. I'll wait.

Does that make it ok? I would say not.

What about using lock gateways for Windstorm? Ignoring Matter Swap with warlocks? Or avoiding Frostbite with immunities or worse, smokebomb? Using HoPs to avoid every tank swap mechanic in ToT? They changed that for T16 but ignored it all of T15. Ignoring bats by kiting on Tortos. What about using Divine Shield or HoP to cause Bloodletting to fail on Paragons? is that an exploit? Soloing the cleave on malkorok to avoid moving for the debuff?
33 Troll Hunter
8270
I'd say exploit.

It gives you a Debuff that prevents you to go back onto it shortly for a reason
90 Worgen Warlock
14465
go kill the fight on heroic then let me know what you think about this exploit. I'll wait.


What does that have to do with anything?

Using HoPs to avoid every tank swap mechanic in ToT? They changed that for T16 but ignored it all of T15. Ignoring bats by kiting on Tortos. What about using Divine Shield or HoP to cause Bloodletting to fail on Paragons? is that an exploit? Soloing the cleave on malkorok to avoid moving for the debuff?


Using abilities that are designed to remove/prevent debuffs is quite different than using an ability to avoid a path that gives you a debuff when it's quite obvious that the path was meant to be used, and not circumvented.

If Blizzard doesn't want an ability to be avoided they can put it on a setting that doesn't allow it. There are many abilities in the game that will trigger even if you're supposed to be immune to everything (such as popping divine shield).

Again,

If anything, I'd argue that breaking ways to not get to debuff, even if they don't get all of them, is proof that getting around the debuff is an exploit.


If avoiding using the pipe to avoid the debuff is legitimate then the Gara'jal exploit was 100% legit right?

So basically, as I said before, anyone who justifies the use of this strategy, basically just wants to justify their kill.
Edited by Varlth on 11/1/2013 7:39 PM PDT
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