Judge range for selfless healer

100 Blood Elf Paladin
10075
If Blizzard changed EF to give Ret a DPS increase of 20% while the HoT was active I'd assume you'd probably take the talent? Right? What if they then tacked on my minimum range requirement? You know.. you had to go out 10-15 yards in order to cast EF.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11205
I wouldn't mind seeing a glyph, similar to what disc priests have with glyph of holy fire. If it takes up a major glyph slot, it is a playstyle choice, and you'll have to sacrifice something to gain it.

It is a choice to play specced with SH, but if there is a simple change to make it feel more fluid, why not?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
Holy paladins were intended as "battle healers" in that they could/would get closer to the action than other healers. Judgement is first and foremost an attack. Being a whole 10yds closer to a suitable target in order to utilize this alternate playstyle isn't taking away from anything. If it is, you have 2 other talents to choose from.


Actually, the intent of battle healers has been dwindling. The removal of Mana from insight, not being excluded from ranged mechanics, even though both our other specs are melee....

We're being pushed out of melee range more than we're being invited into it.

10yards is the difference between stacked and not stacked, which puts us at a disadvantage when generating HoPo for use with SH. SH by itself is not a mana gain. It's mana neutral, and offers no true advantage over EF. With the addition of HoPo generation, it becomes situationally advantageous. Unfortunately, the range limits the capability of generating that HoPo.

HoPo is a pally defining feature, not just HPal. Range inconsistencies are not good for the class as a whole, and it's bad for HPal in particular.
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90 Human Paladin
8805
Pretty sure Lobster is intentionally trolling with logic like that.

Judgement is a primary damage spell for prot and ret paladins and a situational spell for holy paladins when talented.


This right here alone makes me question his obvious bias toward EF. Judgement is not "situational for holy paladins when talented". It's not an "option" like the new fear is an "option".

I see two ret specs for you. I highly, highly doubt you've touched a SH build. If you don't understand the issue, why take such a strong stance against it?

(I do like your Jurrasic Park reference for your battle pet, though.)

While I myself haven't run into any serious issues with positioning, it doesn't seem gamebreaking in PvE or PvP to add range to a single ability that we don't use "for damage". Are you afraid that judgement damage is going to affect the Warlock's Recount? Are you worried that Judgement range is going to cause untold problems for Hunters in RBGs?

I actually checked his realm to see if he was from Illidan. Because, you know.
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90 Human Paladin
10815
Being primarily holy, and with the belief that SH is so good I fear it being nerfed...I would love my heals and judgements having the same range, being of course that this toon is balanced all around judging on cd.

It's more a quality of life issue, not desperately needed...but would be a very welcome addition.

As prot I would also love having a 40yard range, namely for specific circumstances...but I can assume a cross the board glyph would throw off arena balances, (I know an oxymoron ;)...or perhaps ret could use the long(er) ranged damaging attack and extra ranged mobility, (if laotl'd), idk...don't keep up much anymore.

tl:dr - A 40yard judgement for holy would make me feel warm & fuzzy
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8385
Holy paladins were intended as "battle healers" in that they could/would get closer to the action than other healers. Judgement is first and foremost an attack. Being a whole 10yds closer to a suitable target in order to utilize this alternate playstyle isn't taking away from anything. If it is, you have 2 other talents to choose from.


Not once during you entire argument have you stated why Holy shouldn't get a 40 yard judgement range, you just say spec something else if you don't like it. Every single other talent we use has a 40 yard range, so why should judgement remain at 30 yards?

It's not like I am going to go in to a battleground and wtfpwn people by judging them from 40 yards as a healer. I'm not going to be massively OP at healing because I can stop shuffling an annoying 10 yards every time the tank moves the boss to a 40 yard range from the stack point. It just makes sense for it to be 40 yards as Holy if it's going to be a core talent for healing. Not everyone wants to spam EF all day long.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
10075
Not once during you entire argument have you stated why Holy shouldn't get a 40 yard judgement range, you just say spec something else if you don't like it. Every single other talent we use has a 40 yard range, so why should judgement remain at 30 yards?


As others have pointed out, they don't seem to grasp how SH as a spec works. Further, they don't seem to understand the enormous amount of reforging / stat weight shifts that are required to jump between EF and SH. It costs a hell of a lot more than 12s 50c to swap.

Whats ironic tho, is their insistence on what Blizzard intended, (roughly):

"Blizzard *intended* Paladins to be melee Healers"
"Blizzard *intended* SH to be comparable with EF"

and when people suggested changes to make SH truly comparable with EF they responded with:

"If SH isn't viable, spec EF"

Which seems to violate Blizzards intentions and invalidates their own argument... doesn't it. =\
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