This is why EF > SS 5.4

90 Dwarf Paladin
9565
And why imo prot pallys are in better shape than they have ever been..

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/osm0rxjmojbu1sn6/sum/damageTaken/?s=939&e=1289

Feel free to look at all fights, but Sha of pride damage taken vs healing done/taken is what im referring to..

Pretty ridiculous and awesome

In 5.3 I thought monks might have had the edge. In 5.4 have pallys taken the top tank spot ?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11865
No
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99 Blood Elf Paladin
15605
the one where monk did ~3M more healing, took ~2M more dmg taken (still ahead by 1M) and did basically same dps (bad monk) ? well then.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
9565
the one where monk did ~3M more healing, took ~2M more dmg taken (still ahead by 1M) and did basically same dps (bad monk) ? well then.


Am by no means talking bad about our monk OT .. I think he's great.. I out gear him by like 5ilvls.. He's a little squishy but getting tons better.. Im not knocking our monk at all... and was ONLY referring to monks in general !!

Imo monks have been great

On sha monk did great as well... But with that said he healed him self for 5 mil and took 6 mill damage taken..

I had 4 mill damage taken and healed myself for 6mill...

So im not seeing your argument Liminara ...

Pallys seem to be better than they have ever been... and EF is amazing in 10N..
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
4820
Garrosh tickles with 4p and good ef management.

It's a free lay on hands plus a dot every 30 seconds on that fight.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11265
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/twisting-nether/Treckie/advanced
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/Absalom/advanced

this what make me wonder why both of them dont use EF
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90 Human Paladin
10800
When would you use EF though?

Don't you need all the holy powers to keep SoTR up instead?
Edited by Goldbrand on 10/30/2013 1:26 AM PDT
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99 Blood Elf Paladin
15605
10/29/2013 10:46 PMPosted by Alexmania
the one where monk did ~3M more healing, took ~2M more dmg taken (still ahead by 1M) and did basically same dps (bad monk) ? well then.


Am by no means talking bad about our monk OT .. I think he's great.. I out gear him by like 5ilvls.. He's a little squishy but getting tons better.. Im not knocking our monk at all... and was ONLY referring to monks in general !!

Imo monks have been great

On sha monk did great as well... But with that said he healed him self for 5 mil and took 6 mill damage taken..

I had 4 mill damage taken and healed myself for 6mill...

So im not seeing your argument Liminara ...

Pallys seem to be better than they have ever been... and EF is amazing in 10N..


That fact that he tied with you in dmg seems odd.
Plus regardless of self healing, he still did more overall healing than you even after accounting for dmg taken differences. (And 59% of his dmg taken is from stagger which he could've purified away). (look at damage by actor)

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/twisting-nether/Treckie/advanced
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/Absalom/advanced

this what make me wonder why both of them dont use EF

Because they were doing content generally undergeared and 25 man where you have enough healers / cds that tank healing doesn't matter as much.
Plus absalom always played a lot more defensively than most other paladins (afaik he was always stamina heavy)
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90 Tauren Paladin
7950
That's one pretty messed up log. Zero melee damage on both tanks? Reaching Attack top tank damage taken? (Can't think of a reason to be out of melee range in normal mode by the way.) And the monk is somehow gaining Stagger from 0 dmg hits...

[21:01:58.025] Sha of Pride hits Khuznorris
[21:01:59.355] Sha of Pride crits Khuznorris *0* (O: 0)
[21:02:00.461] Khuznorris Stagger Khuznorris Absorb (8005)
[21:02:00.856] Sha of Pride hits Khuznorris
[21:02:01.462] Khuznorris Stagger Khuznorris Absorb (8006)
[21:02:02.359] Sha of Pride hits Khuznorris
[21:02:02.455] Khuznorris Stagger Khuznorris Absorb (8006)
[21:02:03.448] Khuznorris Stagger Khuznorris Absorb (14079)
[21:02:03.860] Sha of Pride hits Khuznorris
[21:02:04.463] Khuznorris Stagger Khuznorris Absorb (14080)
[21:02:05.354] Sha of Pride crits Khuznorris *0* (O: 0)
[21:02:05.444] Khuznorris Stagger Khuznorris Absorb (14079)
[21:02:06.462] Khuznorris Stagger Khuznorris 22073
[21:02:06.881] Sha of Pride hits Khuznorris
[21:02:07.445] Khuznorris Stagger Khuznorris 22074
[21:02:08.414] Sha of Pride crits Khuznorris *0* (O: 0)
[21:02:08.456] Khuznorris Stagger Khuznorris 22074
[21:02:09.118] Sha of Pride casts Wounded Pride on Khuznorris


Of course self-healing is going to look insanely good if you omit one of the top sources of tank damage taken. Didn't you get even the least bit suspicious that the bosses were apparently not meleeing you at all?

EF is great, but don't base your opinion on this corrupted sample.
Edited by Choz on 10/30/2013 4:57 AM PDT
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90 Dwarf Paladin
9565
@Akios
Lemin beat me to it , yeah they're doing 25m heriocs where bosses hit a lot harder..

@Goldbrand

It's all about holy power management.. When one is expecting big incoming damage via boss hit, SotR is your best friend..

@Leminara

I don't know monks at all, but our monk doesn't seem to be dependent on vengeance as much as I for higher dps numbers..
My attack power barely breaks 115k thru the first 4bosses. In later bosses, Malkorok (spell check) for example my dps will be 40 or 50k higher... Even so I generally out dps'd our monk with the exception of a mistake I made on the 5th and not taking a more of air approach thru talent choices, just forgot ..
It won't surprise if our OT monk starts pulling ahead soon on those bosses with better gear with dps..

I don't care how the monk took damage
Look at healing by actor vs damage taken.

I think you might be over looking the fact I out healed damage taken by 2mill which I didn't think was possible .. And not just sha of pride fight, my self heals were close to damage taken which to me is impressive as well..

I thought our survivability was great in 5.3. I'm beginning to think its a lot better now and after the heart break of SS getting nerfed im surprised..

It was never my intention to compare my OT and I .. I made the comment of pallys maybe being top tanks, how EF is pretty incredible in 10N and was wondering thoughts of others.. It just so happens my co tank atm is a monk and up until 2wks ago was a warrior..
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90 Dwarf Paladin
9565
@ choz

It's not a messed up log. Tanks had a brief lapse and both went to outer imprisonment circle so both tanks were outta melee range for maybe a few seconds and yes should never be the case .. It's the first time it's happened for us...

In anyway I don't see how that takes away self healing vs damage taken and how impressive EF is as well as on the OTHER fights ..
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90 Human Paladin
8590
@ Akios
I went thru Treckie's logs and yes he uses EF alot!!!!!!!!!!!
I can see some heroic fights that SS would have an advantage, but he used EF on most.
Pretty much what Liminara said too.

@ Choz
Lastnight was screwed up bad.... We tried heroics for the 1st time and bosses 1/2 both had glitches for us. Puddles stayed up the entire time... some were invisible.. Mechanics on protectors were shot.... I can believe any stupid excrement that Blizz had going on.

@ Alex
You are not going to know how to act when you get a 4p. Sotr and EF uptimes go thru the roof. I can keep EF up w/ 5 stacks every time and NO global used!!!! One of these days im going to talk you into trying HA, at least on a few fights.

Think about Malkorok, You take the boss using HA/AW macro'ed w/ hero at the start. @ 12-14 stacks use GoAK, have the OT taunt off when its up. I think you should be around 20+ stacks (this is being safe). Your dps/heals will be nuts and your set. You can absorb a ton of veng this way.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-46l0jmgxyj9ds22a/sum/damageDone/?s=9520&e=9782#Rubert
96.6% uptime on EF and 71.9% uptime on sotr, its on 25m but not much diff.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
9565
Hmmm ... Sounds interesting on Malkorok..
I'd imagine HA would take some getting used to .. Couldn't I just apply your pull with DP?;) stubborn I know ! :)
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90 Human Paladin
9920
Not sure if it slipped your mind, but you took 0 melee damage. So yeah, logs are glitched. Don't get so excited.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
14895
When would you use EF though?

Don't you need all the holy powers to keep SoTR up instead?
I have seen you ask this or make similar comments several times and every single time you have been told the same thing: EF IS WORTH THE HOLY POWER.

You use it when it's just about to fall off, which is every 30 seconds, exactly the same as SS. The only additional thing to consider when using it that you didn't need to do with SS is you want to make sure that you always use EF with 3 holy power.

Obviously if the boss is about to use a big hitting ability you'd want to use SotR instead, but in general refreshing EF should take priority. Plus, you *should* be banking yourself up to 5hp before using either ability anyways, so that you have the 2 extra hp onhand for emergencies. Which means that in a situation where EF has fallen off and a big boss ability is coming up you can use EF, leaving yourself with 2hp left, hit CS/J to generate a 3rd and follow it up with SotR (see why banking to 5hp is so useful?), though in that situation you may want to reverse their usage, getting SotR up first to make sure it's up before the hit and then EF afterwards where the base heal will help with the damage you took.

And once you have the 4p then the holy power question doesn't even make sense as EF becomes completely FREE.
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90 Human Paladin
8590
Hmmm ... Sounds interesting on Malkorok..
I'd imagine HA would take some getting used to .. Couldn't I just apply your pull with DP?;) stubborn I know ! :)


Your stacking sotr phy dam reduction, so you can have an extended amount of time w/ it. You want the OT to taunt before it runs out w/ your goak (20stacks). You will keep the buff up for a long time using HA/hero together on pull. The mitigation is nuts and EF w/ hero/veng is insane.

I do the same thing for Thok in a way. HA is always up for me to take him after he eats the add.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
4820
I should try out HA more.

Are you hitting 71 percent on sotr without DP?

On our longest attempt on garrosh last night I think i had 60 percent shield and and 80 percent on EF logging 100 bastion of glory stacks.
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90 Human Paladin
8590
64.7% sotr and 93.1% EF uptime on my last Garrosh kill using HA.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-kik6nbwy4la2bobv/details/7/?s=9546&e=10220

try it!!!
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90 Dwarf Paladin
9565
Not sure if it slipped your mind, but you took 0 melee damage. So yeah, logs are glitched. Don't get so excited.


Even so, other fights pretty cool to see too.. The fact that we can self heal for nearly our damage taken is awesome .. EF is pretty badass...

dont get so excited? lol okay thanks ...

64.7% sotr and 93.1% EF uptime on my last Garrosh kill using HA. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-kik6nbwy4la2bobv/details/7/?s=9546&e=10220try it!!!


nice .. i'll give it a whirl..
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