Poor me, the Sad Prot Pally

90 Blood Elf Paladin
6160
Hey guys:
So I always wanted a paladin, and I eventually made one- leveled it all the way as Protection due to quick dungeon ques blahblah blah. :)
Well, it got a lot more difficult at 90. In SOO lfr people tell me I am bad. My main is a disc priest and I know what healing is like- I wouldn't wanna heal me..
Can you guys help me out with what I am doing wrong: build wise and glyphs?
I've read guides but it's SO difficult for me to grasp.

I've even tried healing, i got some decent gear- and my healing was terrible. i mean, i didn't understand it. WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME AND WHY CANT I GRASP THE CLASS THAT IS MOST PLAYED IN THIS GAME!?!?
I tried to play ret and I couldn't pull above 50k dps.
SIGH!
Help is appreciated.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
8970
Missing reforges, gems, and enchants.
Try out Eternal Flame, it's (imo) way better than SS
Don't forget to get hit/exp capped and then forge/gem towards haste.
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93 Dwarf Paladin
14455
~For Prot: You're not capped on either hit or expertise, which means you're losing out on a lot of Holy Power, which is hurting your uptime on Shield of the Righteous. Personally, I don't think ES is very good for tanking; I prefer Holy Prism since it works really well as filler, self heal, and AoE threat all at once, on a relatively short CD. If you're not, you should be running Seal of Insight.

Your haste is also really low; try to get rid of your "tank" pieces and get more haste-based pieces. To do so, it may be advisable to set your Loot Specialization to Ret, since Prot's loot table in SoO is super inflated since it has both avoidance pieces and haste pieces. Far as I'm aware, you should be using a haste-biased gemming setup similar to Ret - Wicked orange gems in red sockets, Lightning/Forceful green gems in blue sockets (dependent on how much hit you need; gemming it means you need less reforged to hit, for more haste), and Quick yellows in yellow and prismatic sockets.

How are you handling your defensive CDs? Are you making sure SS is always up?

~For Ret: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9753545568

~For Holy: I got nothing; been dabbling all expansion and still haven't got it figured out. >_<
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90 Dwarf Paladin
5495
I'm Sure there are more people out there that could give you more info than I could. But, I have been trolling the forums lately trying to pick up as much info as I can. I will tell you what I have come across.

Protection Paladins are fairly simple. All you really need to worry about is having RF on and Use Consecration all the time. If you are having trouble with threat generation you want to use Haste. If you are having trouble staying alive you want to stack more mastery. As a personal prefer I like to use Parry. Most people would suggest to use only Haste and Mastery gear( DPS gear ). I like having parry because it reprocs my avengers shield. after that make sure to use the glyph for divine protection and spec the talent for it. I prefer using Eternal flame over SS. But people say that sacred shield does more dmg mitigation. Eternal flame will provide more dmg mitigation but you have to get used to paying attention to your stacks of Bastion of Glory. At 5 stacks you will do so much more dmg mitigation. But you dmg mitigation will take a hit because you will have to wait to build stacks. Where as Sacred Shield will be free to use at the beginning of the battle. Make sure to use Sheild of the righteous as soon as it becomes available.. I have a macro set up that ties Sheild of the Righteos and my Crusader strike together. That way my Shield of the righteous is used as soon as I get 3 stacks of holy power. Use Divine protection as soon as it becomes available if you have to talent that makes it possible to be used every 30 seconds and the glyph that provides 20 percent dmg reduction it can be a life saver. Because Divine Shield and hand of protection drops threat almost immediately.

But with you having an ilvl of 510 and going to SoO people are more than likely going to say you suck even though you don't. I would say you should be at least 520 for SoO. I would suggest hitting up Timeless isle and trying to get some Burdens to help you bridge the gap from LFR 502 gear to Soo 528 gear. I have heard negative things about timeless gear. But I used it and I thought it made life easier. Infact, I have two burdens of eternity in my inventory right now that I don't even know what to use them on because I have made about 20 535 pieces since the Patch came out. So, the Burdens of eternity are not that hard to get. Do rare farming and open treasure chests in the treasure room. you will have 3 or 4 in no time.

As far as Retribution goes it is all Haste and Alll mastery. I was in a debate on the forums at one point Weither Crit was better or mastery was better. So, I made an all crit set and reforged all crit. My Dps was 80 k with relatively the same ilvl as my haste mastery set which I get 120k to 140k and at points up to about 180k. Without the epic cloak. So, its all haste and all mastery. And get the add on CLCret. in PVP it is useless but in PVE it will tell you the best order to cast spells for max DPS.

For holy I know absolutely Nothing. I did holy pally at lvl 70 it was fun. Paladins are good healers. But I haven't done it since. Not for any negative reason. But my guild doesn't need a healer so I have spent some time figuring out DPS and PROT.

I give this knowledge freely as it has been given to me freely. Have a good day. and good luck learning paladin
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
15485
11/08/2013 12:48 AMPosted by Saoiren
I prefer using Eternal flame over SS. But people say that sacred shield does more dmg mitigation. Eternal flame will provide more dmg mitigation


EF is a straight up heal/hot, it's not mitigation. SS is an absorb, and as such is counted as mitigation. Reason for picking EF over SS is that it generally heals for significantly more than SS will absorb, and is thus the (usually) better choice. EF also ticks more frequently than SS does. Both are affected by Vengeance, so popping SS before the pull gives you a very small absorb (about 20k at my gear level) until you refresh it with higher Vengeance.

Make sure to use Sheild of the righteous as soon as it becomes available


It's often better to wait until you have 5 HoPo before using SotR, so you have 2 HoPo "banked" for a quicker follow-up SotR or an emergency WoG/EF.
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
16380
If you are having trouble with threat generation you want to use Haste. If you are having trouble staying alive you want to stack more mastery.
No, if you're having trouble staying alive you want to stack more haste. Haste is our top survival stat. Avoidance are our worst stats (except for crit), yes avoidance procs grand crusader but the benefit is still very very small. No matter how much avoidance you stack it will not give you as much holy power or survival as haste or even mastery will, and even without stacking any avoidance at all you'll still get a good amount of procs anyways. Unless the ilevel gap is very large haste gear is always going to be better than avoidance gear.

I prefer using Eternal flame over SS. But people say that sacred shield does more dmg mitigation.
That was the last 2 tiers. This tier EF is much better than SS except for in a handful of niche situations. You don't really even need to pay much attention to your bastion stacks most of the time either because if you're performing the rotation properly you should be guaranteed to have at least 3 stacks of BoG before you need to refresh EF, and while more stacks is better, keeping it up all the time is more important. So all you really need to watch is your holy power because you only want to use EF with 3, but you should be watching your holy power regardless.

Also, ideally you should try to hold your SotR until you have 5 holy power so that you always have that 2 extra for emergencies. Which is especially more useful when using EF before you have the 4p (in case you need to use SotR and refresh EF quickly). In addition, Consecrate is actually typically our lowest priority filler spell, unless tanking a group of adds, it's not bad, but our other abilities just hit harder (more threat) against a single target.

If played well, tankadins are quite solid. I see no reason why a 510 tankadin shouldn't be able to tank SoO LFR without anybody knowing he wasn't 520.

Oh, also since it wasn't mentioned anywhere that I see, as tank you should always be using seal of insight, always. It's a huge source of self-healing and worth way more than pitiful amounts of damage that the other seals do.
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90 Human Paladin
9215
Protection Paladins are fairly simple. All you really need to worry about is having RF on and Use Consecration all the time. If you are having trouble with threat generation you want to use Haste. If you are having trouble staying alive you want to stack more mastery


Ignore this poster. Go with what Grognard said for Prot with a few caveats :

- Ignore socket bonuses and jam yellow Haste gems if the bonus is not Stamina. Even the haste socket bonuses are usually not really worth it.
- Make sure you're using Protection loot specialization on bosses with shields or 1 handers. Some bosses, you want drops off both sides (Siegecrafter has our BiS 1h and our BiS ring on ret, use the specialization that will give you the biggest upgrade first).
- Make sure you're always ALWAYS ALWAYS prioritizing hitting your HoPo generators. HotR, CS and J are your goto abilities at all times if they are off cooldown. More HoPo = More SotR = more BoG stacks = bigger EF.
- Use Eternal Flame. Can't manage 100% uptime at high BoG stacks ? Use Weak Auras :

http://schilddesraechers.blogspot.ca/2013/09/54-weak-auras-eternal-flame-bastion-of.html

This Weak Aura string is godly.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
5495
It's often better to wait until you have 5 HoPo before using SotR, so you have 2 HoPo "banked" for a quicker follow-up SotR or an emergency WoG/EF.


The macro I use is very simple

/start attack
/cast [modifier: alt] Hammer of the righteous; Crusader Strike
/cast Shield of the Righteous

I use divine purpose So I see no reason to wait until I have 5 Holy Power. The more I use Holy Power the more chances I have to pop Divine purpose. This is the way I have gotten used to playing. I am not saying it is perfect. But it does well for me. It was not long ago I was on the forums looking for answers so I am merely posting to help out a bit.

Also Mitigation is defined as " the act of making a condition or consequence less severe " according to dictionary.com. As I think EF makes a condition less severe. I consider it to be mitigation. As it mitigates or makes dmg less severe. But I only say that because I get tired of people using trivial debate in order to impress dominance.

I've heard of Weak aura's but the link you posted doesn't work for me.
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90 Human Paladin
9215
/start attack
/cast [modifier: alt] Hammer of the righteous; Crusader Strike
/cast Shield of the Righteous


Please never, ever do that. That is about the worse thing you can do as it doesn't give you any leeway into holding a SotR back for a hard hitter that's about to come.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
5495
That's actually a fair point...I'm still gonna do it though. But that's a fair point. Being able to control the exact moment you use one shield of the righteous would be beneficial. But........yea. This makes my life easier.
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90 Human Paladin
9215
That's actually a fair point...I'm still gonna do it though. But that's a fair point. Being able to control the exact moment you use one shield of the righteous would be beneficial. But........yea. This makes my life easier.


Makes you a poorer tank. If you can live with that, then that is your prerogative. Just do not ever give this advice out to people trying to learn Protection as a spec, it is sub-optimal and doesn't help anyone get better.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
5495
I suppose I could tie it to avenger's shield or some other attack I don't use as often. But still. I don't think it makes me a poor tank. Maybe not the best tank. But I wouldn't say it makes me a poor tank. I actually thought it was a good idea. more stacks of BoG. Plus I needed to save room on my action bar. Its gonna be macro'd somewhere. I could put on a modifier somewhere else. But with it not sharing a GCD. It seems like something that I should tie into something else just to save the GCD. no point taking the time to hit 2 buttons and wasting 2 clicks on my key bored and wasting a GCD when I only need to push one. But who knows. I've already said. I'm not the perfect tank
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90 Human Paladin
8590
I suppose I could tie it to avenger's shield or some other attack I don't use as often. But still. I don't think it makes me a poor tank. Maybe not the best tank. But I wouldn't say it makes me a poor tank. I actually thought it was a good idea. more stacks of BoG. Plus I needed to save room on my action bar. Its gonna be macro'd somewhere. I could put on a modifier somewhere else. But with it not sharing a GCD. It seems like something that I should tie into something else just to save the GCD. no point taking the time to hit 2 buttons and wasting 2 clicks on my key bored and wasting a GCD when I only need to push one. But who knows. I've already said. I'm not the perfect tank


Why give advice and double down on it when you know your WRONG. Who knows??? Everyone but you obviously.

Stack your parry, dodge and stam... good luck w/ that.... But there are guides out there if ya dont believe them.

OP: The advice given by the rest here is good. A few of them went out of their way to guide ya too.
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90 Human Paladin
9215
But still. I don't think it makes me a poor tank. Maybe not the best tank.


I said "poorer", not "poor".

SotR should not ever be macro'ed to anything. This doesn't mean less BoG stacks either, I have no problems getting up to 5 BoG stacks before EF needs a refresh. It just means that if I have to hold back SotR, then I don't have to hold back another ability button either.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
5495
I don't know about that one. I see what your saying. I just ran an LFR because of it and watched my game play with that macro. I didn't seem to have any problems. I like it because it is always throwing SotR. I checked skada and it said I had BoG up 99 percent of the time. I almost always had 5 stacks when I went to hit EF.

But I understand the point of wanting to use it at just the right time. But in heavy dmg moments is usually when I blow my Major CDs. Soooooo yea. I just don't see anything wrong with it. But I'm not playing at the Herioc SOO level atm. I only go as far as FLEX raids. Once I get into normal and heroic if there ever comes a time. Which in my guild might happen might not. Normal raiding and Herioc raiding require a dedicated 10 man group and my guild already has a dedicated 10 man group that does those and I'm not in it and there really isn't enough people in my guild to run another group dedicated to completing SOO normal. But if there ever comes a time I might have to take it more seriously. But I do fine with this in LFR and FLEX.
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90 Human Paladin
9215
I just ran an LFR because of it and watched my game play with that macro. I didn't seem to have any problems.


I could tank LFR in cloth gear with a fishing pole.

Look, if you don't have the knowledge of the class, that's ok. You don't have to be the best to enjoy the game and as long as you're having fun, that's cool.

But don't start giving others advice if you're going to suggest sub-optimal things like "spam consecrate, macro SotR to whatever". You're only going to confuse new players. You can be sub-optimal all you want in LFR, but frankly, you can also be playing and gearing and bettering yourself by trying to be optimal at all times.

Players that come here asking for questions don't want to know about "sub-optimal but ok in LFR gameplay!". They can pretty much figure that out on their own by mashing buttons randomnly. They are asking questions and seeking advice and expecting the best possible answers. We give those answers and advice and then those players can choose to follow or not follow them.
Edited by Berith on 11/9/2013 9:54 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
4820
I don't know about that one. I see what your saying. I just ran an LFR because of it and watched my game play with that macro. I didn't seem to have any problems. I like it because it is always throwing SotR. I checked skada and it said I had BoG up 99 percent of the time. I almost always had 5 stacks when I went to hit EF.

But I understand the point of wanting to use it at just the right time. But in heavy dmg moments is usually when I blow my Major CDs. Soooooo yea. I just don't see anything wrong with it. But I'm not playing at the Herioc SOO level atm. I only go as far as FLEX raids. Once I get into normal and heroic if there ever comes a time. Which in my guild might happen might not. Normal raiding and Herioc raiding require a dedicated 10 man group and my guild already has a dedicated 10 man group that does those and I'm not in it and there really isn't enough people in my guild to run another group dedicated to completing SOO normal. But if there ever comes a time I might have to take it more seriously. But I do fine with this in LFR and FLEX.


You can tank lfr in just about anything.

Berith is right. Using that macro and preferring parry/dodge gear pretty much makes you a bad pally.
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90 Human Paladin
9215
No one is yelling at you, nor insulting you. I was asking you nicely to refrain from giving out advice you know to be sub-optimal.

Obviously, you just dug your own credibility deeper than anyone else ever could by dispelling the bad advice you're giving.

Have a nice day.
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90 Human Paladin
8590
11/09/2013 10:05 AMPosted by Saoiren
But don't start giving others advice if you're going to suggest sub-optimal things like "spam consecrate, macro SotR to whatever".


OMG are you yelling at me for trying to help someone. THATS BULL!@#$. LOOOK PRICK when I started posting on this thread there was only 3 post on here. I was throwing the guy what I knew to try and help So %^-*. What a #*%%!%@@. and you do spam consecrate.

Ill give advice to whoever I want !@#$ing elitist %^-*. Here's my advice to you go eat a #*%%!%@@.


You cant make this fecal matter up!

So you know what your telling ppl is wrong... Its your right to give bad advice... Anyone that calls you out on being wrong is an Elitist. Sounds kinda childish, huh?
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