The good side of Mythic 20man

90 Troll Druid
15265
What?


I was implying that your guild, when it was 10 man, is still not the same as the guild I'm in. Referring to my previous statement of you can't speak to the dynamics of a guild you're not in.

11/11/2013 10:45 AMPosted by Vinceypoo
o you truly believe that people see no need to stay in a guild because they could so easily start another one?


No? I doubt there are many decent raiders out there who get tired of their guild and jump ship and immediately start their own raiding guild. Sorry but even in a 10 man I wouldn't state it's an easy task to just create your own guild and start raid leading them to any decent amount of progression.

But, more importantly - when someone quits from a 10 man roster, or that ONE person quits that you were really close with then it changes the entire dynamic; you will soon quit the game or guild.


Sorry but if you quit your guild because one person you were close with quit, you were just looking for a reason to leave. I love everyone in my guild but one of them leaving isn't going to even make me consider giving up on everyone else.
100 Human Priest
20180
11/11/2013 09:48 AMPosted by Narph
The 10man said, alright screw all 15 of you, we are going to kick some $%^ with those 10 players.


Yes, that is exactly what happened when I built my two night a week guild up from four real life friends at the start of Cataclysm. I immediately kicked out the 15 people I never had in the first place.
100 Worgen Rogue
16445
The best about Mythic 20m, no more thread about "10 vs. 25."
100 Night Elf Warrior
11615
Yes, that is exactly what happened when I built my two night a week guild up from four real life friends at the start of Cataclysm. I immediately kicked out the 15 people I never had in the first place.


And where did you find the 6 other players then ? Im sure you went to some of the 25man crumbling around you and said : Hey you know how you are stuck on this boss because other players keep making mistakes ? Come with us instead!

10mans are toxic, always were, always will be. At least now, they will be dealt it in the correct way. Without Mercy.
100 Troll Hunter
13355
It's refreshing (not really) to see Narph still acting the same as always.
90 Troll Druid
15265
11/11/2013 11:16 AMPosted by Narph
Yes, that is exactly what happened when I built my two night a week guild up from four real life friends at the start of Cataclysm. I immediately kicked out the 15 people I never had in the first place.


And where did you find the 6 other players then ? Im sure you went to some of the 25man crumbling around you and said : Hey you know how you are stuck on this boss because other players keep making mistakes ? Come with us instead!

10mans are toxic, always were, always will be. At least now, they will be dealt it in the correct way. Without Mercy.


Rofl, how's that delusion treating you?
100 Human Priest
19350
How do people not see that a huge chunk (if not the majority...) of cut 25 man raiders and 10 man raiders who's guild disbanded will quit. They will not all seamlessly get picked up by other 10 man guilds who are looking to make the transition to mythic.

Doubling the minimum roster undoubtedly makes hardcore raiding harder to get into. There will be less options to choose from.
100 Blood Elf Death Knight
15275
11/11/2013 10:53 AMPosted by Prunekin
No? I doubt there are many decent raiders out there who get tired of their guild and jump ship and immediately start their own raiding guild. Sorry but even in a 10 man I wouldn't state it's an easy task to just create your own guild and start raid leading them to any decent amount of progression.


About the Good Work thing - Sorry, didn't see your guild name. That makes a lot more sense lol.

The thing is that this happens all the time. Hardcore guilds get frustrated because the GM refuses to take out a !@#$ty player from the roster and a large majority of them jump %^-* and create a new one.

Back in BC this happened because of ONE officer in a guild on Alleria. Back in Premonition we got a bunch of people from Risen before tier 6 really was deeply progressed because of disgreements of one officer. People jump ship all the time - especially decent raiders that find the grass looking much greener on the other side.

And no offense, but are you kidding me? You really don't think it's easy to start up a 10 man?! Really?!

But in all honesty I'm happy that you have a solid 10 man team. I'm sure though that in the next almost year (maybe?) you'd be able to slowly find people little by little that you enjoy raiding with and sacrificing your own raid spot to let them get practice and build synergy with your raid group for WoD and then even raid heroics for one additional week next expansion to make sure you have the right people.
Edited by Vinceypoo on 11/11/2013 11:23 AM PST
100 Night Elf Warrior
11615
Rofl, how's that delusion treating you?


Delusion would be the right word.... If Blizzard didnt decide to hear guys like me and screw over people like you for the health in general of the game :)
90 Undead Monk
13535
How do people not see that a huge chunk (if not the majority...) of cut 25 man raiders and 10 man raiders who's guild disbanded will quit. They will not all seamlessly get picked up by other 10 man guilds who are looking to make the transition to mythic.


Personally, I think a lot of people who still wanted to raid will find another guild to raid in. If I get cut from my 25 man, either I decide to find another guild that I can get into or quit if I just don't feel like raiding anymore.

I think Blizzard is thinking that a lot of people who still want to raid the hard mode will adapt and try to look for another guild if their 10 man dies or their 25 man said "SEE YA".

Again, just one hell of a gamble.
100 Human Priest
20180
And where did you find the 6 other players then ? Im sure you went to some of the 25man crumbling around you and said : Hey you know how you are stuck on this boss because other players keep making mistakes ? Come with us instead!

10mans are toxic, always were, always will be. At least now, they will be dealt it in the correct way. Without Mercy.


Nope, never approached anyone in a guild. I spammed in Trade Chat and put up a post on the realm forum saying we were recruiting for two nights a week raiding. PUGed spots each week for a long time -- which worked for normal, won't work for heroic. Didn't even clear the tier on normal for about five months after Cata hit.

Hell, if anything I think I got most of my people from people who used to be in 10 man guilds that couldn't handle the new harder form of 10 mans and thus broke up.

But you're 0 for 2 so far -- maybe third time's the charm?
90 Troll Druid
15265
And no offense, but are you kidding me? You really don't think it's easy to start up a 10 man?! Really?!


No I don't think it's easy for just anyone to leave their guild, recruit ~11 or so good players and raid lead them to decent progression.

11/11/2013 11:23 AMPosted by Vinceypoo
The thing is that this happens all the time. Hardcore guilds get frustrated because the GM refuses to take out a !@#$ty player from the roster and a large majority of them jump %^-* and create a new one.


I wouldn't say that's a thing that happens all the time, in fact, I'd say it doesn't happen more often than not.

Delusion would be the right word.... If Blizzard didnt decide to hear guys like me and screw over people like you for the health in general of the game :)


You think I'm screwed over by this? Lol. I personally can't wait, should be fun! =D
100 Human Priest
20180
11/11/2013 11:23 AMPosted by Vinceypoo
And no offense, but are you kidding me? You really don't think it's easy to start up a 10 man?! Really?!


It took me five months to build up a team capable of clearing normals. That was when I started with three other RL friends, caught a break in the middle of a build up when two friends on another server in a hardcore guild transferred alts to play with us for our two nights a week since our raid schedules didn't overlap, had PUGed 11/12H in ICC10 in WotLK, and was an officer of a guild in BC and thus used to leading raids and recruiting people. Five months.

I mean, I had to use a paladin tank who had a single macro with every single ability in it for like four months before I could attract someone with a clue.

Now we're full clearing heroic each tier and were in the world top 500ish for combined rankings until Throne/Siege (single long raid instances with emphasis on gear farming really stink for our schedule).
Edited by Balkoth on 11/11/2013 12:00 PM PST
90 Human Priest
13720
It's refreshing (not really) to see Narph still acting the same as always.
90 Human Monk
12300
11/11/2013 10:27 AMPosted by Ninjablaze
Recruiting 10 people is not an easy task, do you disagree with that?


It depends on the time frame. Recruiting 10 people in week is certainly no easy task. Recruiting 10 people in a month isn't super hard, I'll go medium. Recruiting 10 people in 3+ months is laughably easy.


and all 10 of those people will be playing at the level you require and be a good mesh with your core raid members?

can you do my guilds recruitment if so?

i don't know why i bother responding even, no sensible person would honestly think this way.
Edited by Tippz on 11/11/2013 11:54 PM PST
100 Tauren Druid
8890
Ah yes, generalizing groups of people is usually the right way to go about things.


That didn't stop you from generalizing the people you disagree with, did it?
100 Orc Warlock
16220
There is litterally limitless potential for new interesting mechanics where we arent forced to consider 11 classes with 10 spots.


This is actually the reason I was opposed to splitting raiding into 10 and 25 man from the start, and am glad Blizzard has finally realized their mistake (though I'm not sure they're handling the transition as best as they could). It was obvious back during the Wrath beta that having both 10 and 25 man would restrict mechanics allowed.
90 Pandaren Priest
7670
GC has explained it already - 'Good question. Ultimately there is a population of people out there looking to do difficult content but we want to do this with an eye toward the long term and the long-term health of high-end raiding. For example, right now there are a LOT of cool things we want to do in raids but have to leave it on the cutting room floor because we can't scale it down to 10-mans.'

Simply put, 20-mans afford us the opportunity to have different and more interesting mechanics/encounters. It should also allow them to tune the bosses much better. For any heroic raider, these benefits should really outweigh anything else.
Edited by Ceddya on 11/12/2013 12:45 AM PST
100 Troll Rogue
17115
11/12/2013 12:44 AMPosted by Ceddya
For example, right now there are a LOT of cool things we want to do in raids but have to leave it on the cutting room floor because we can't scale it down to 10-mans.'


But they still have to scale it to 10 for everything but Mythic, if it means that a lot of mythic encounters will have more interesting, different and challenging mechanics that sounds good for the players doing them and something extra to aspire to for the rest of the player base.

Some heroic modes are really a bit meh with one extra (sometimes trivial) mechanic added and a much steeper dps/healing check.
Edited by Sabod on 11/12/2013 12:59 AM PST
90 Pandaren Priest
7670
But they still have to scale it to 10 for everything but Mythic, if it means that a lot of mythic encounters will have more interesting, different and challenging mechanics that sounds good for the players doing them and something extra to aspire to for the rest of the player base.Some heroic modes are really a bit meh with one extra (sometimes trivial) mechanic added and a much steeper dps/healing check.


Mythic-only mechanics, kinda like how Heroic are right now, except without the restrictions imposed by having to balance around raids having only 10 people.
Edited by Ceddya on 11/12/2013 2:42 AM PST
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