Level 100 talents(as they are right now)

100 Human Paladin
13120
If seals are on the GCD still, you can probably math out exactly how much dps seal-twisting would cost you in terms of used GCDs, lost holy power generated over time, and so forth, vs. it's passive benefits. I'm not much for crunching numbers but I'm sure someone is already working on it.

I'd guess you'd probably see a benefit from sealing up one thing, judging it, and then going to your main seal to have about 15 seconds of two bonuses - but it would be very situationally dependent.

It does seem like an interesting system to play around with, and I'd actually be pretty interested in it if it weren't for the fact that I know in my heart that nothing will bring me more joy playing my paladin than dropping holy templar's verdicts on things. I never got the set bonus from last tier, so I'm really looking forward to it at 100.
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90 Draenei Paladin
3990
Final Verdict > T15 4pc...because there is no RNG! You get an all holy TV every time you have 3 HP. Sick...
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100 Draenei Paladin
14985
Seal/Judgement interaction YES PLZ.

Holy Shield back for Prot YES PLZ.

That Final Verdict for Ret nice.
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90 Troll Mage
7495
correct me if im wrong but divine convition for prot...10% increased block chance and each block does 2000 damage to attackers... isnt 2000 damage going to be quite high with the item squish?

I'm looking forward to rogues destroying themselves on prots again like in vanilla.
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100 Human Paladin
12595
correct me if im wrong but divine convition for prot...10% increased block chance and each block does 2000 damage to attackers... isnt 2000 damage going to be quite high with the item squish?

I'm looking forward to rogues destroying themselves on prots again like in vanilla.


wait whaaaa.... prot pvp viability?.... nope now we know the reflect wont do much
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90 Troll Druid
9020
I miss wraith... using divine storm without using combopoints and actually did more dmg than crusader...
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
7075
As much of a nuke Final Verdict seems, the other two choices seem so much more appealing. Dat survivability doe
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9810
In my opinion, these are all extremely underwhelming. I would gladly take some powered-up aura's over killing DPS for healing and so on. Final verdict seems pretty good, but but I don't think any of these are fixing some of the class issues we already have.
Edited by Vaekor on 1/10/2014 5:27 AM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
15420
technically this was posted a while ago, but it didnt get much of a response :(

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10859656215
Edited by Ozmademos on 1/10/2014 3:40 PM PST
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100 Tauren Paladin
18960
correct me if im wrong but divine convition for prot...10% increased block chance and each block does 2000 damage to attackers... isnt 2000 damage going to be quite high with the item squish?


I doubt it will be that high even with the squish, especially considering that in order to block, we will have to be getting attacked from the front (so it will be a "how stupid are you" deal).
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6300
wow two beacon targets is boss
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90 Draenei Paladin
8980
I'm gonna have to give a resounding "meh" to these talents.
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100 Human Paladin
Air
15400
They'll probably nerf final verdict for pvp because all that holy damage ignores armor. I remembered being really stupid with 4pt15 last teir in bgs.
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90 Human Paladin
1825
Seal of Faith is literally useless for a Holy Paladin in the PvE raiding scene.
To start off, I thought this was a hoax from the second I clicked the image. I haven't kept up with notes or Blizz releases, but I just feel like it'd come from them not you if it was being released.

Seal of Faith would be an okay one for soloing stuff as Holy, but Denounce is the best choice for killing something as Holy.
If they want to give Holy some DPS utility, they should give Light of Dawn a small smart-AoE DPS aspect (opposite of Atonement), and add a glyph to add some cleave damage to Judgment/CS (for Holy).

If this goes live though...
I'll be going with Bastions of Light to have my Beacon up on two targets. It'll probably be both tanks, but you never know.
One thing that would be hard to manage is keybinds for this.

I hope they do something like:
Beacon of Light (Beacon 1)
Bastion of Light (Beacon 2)

instead of making it like this:
cast beacon1
cast beacon2
casting beacon again removes beacon1 (because what if I want to get rid of beacon2 instead).

I wouldn't use the 30% shield unless I was definitely doing tank healing or there was a fight with hardly any raid damage....LOL. Only way to stay competitive (unless assigned to tank healing) is raid healing these days.
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90 Draenei Paladin
15420
I like the idea of empowering the Seal system again. Bringing back interactions between Seals and Judgment would be truly awesome. I'd rather see something like:
Passive Your Seals also cause your Judgment to empower you with an additional beneficial effect.
Judgment of Justice: Increases your movement speed by 10% for 20 sec.
Judgment of Insight: Heals a nearby friendly target for 3% of their maximum health every 2.00 sec for 20 sec. (smart heals the target of lowest health near to the target Judged)
Judgment of Righteousness: Up to 5 enemies around the target take an additional 10% Holy Damage from the Paladin's attacks for 20 sec.
Judgment of Truth: Increases your attack power and attack speed by 10% for 20 sec.


Because I think the Judgement/Seal interaction should feel more interactive for all three specs, but not be something too overly obvious to take.

I like the idea of introducing a new Seal, but Seal of Faith as is, is not the answer. There aren't really enough true dps abilities for Holy to make much use of this, and Ret would never shoot itself in the foot with a 30% reduction in damage for a smidgen more healing. And in truth, trying to balance the dps loss with big healing would just be flamed all day on the forums.

If you were going to make something relatively attractive to all specs, I'd say:

Seal of Faith
623 mana, Instant
Fills you with Holy Light, causing your Holy Power generators to grant Faith. Faith grants a bonus to the damage or healing of your next Holy Power consumer by 5% of the damage or healing done by the Holy Power generators.


Something where the bonus builds or stacks over time (like an Ignite)

I also like the idea of quasi-reflective damage in Divine Conviction. If they were going to go implement something like this, it'd probably be better as:
Struck by the Light (Holy) Passive When you heal a target, a nearby enemy will take damage equal to 20% of the healing done. (Higher health targets are priority)
Holy Shield (Protection) Passive Increases your block chance by 10%, and when you block, you deal 2000 Holy damage to your attacker.
Retribution Aura (Retribution) Instant. 3min Cooldown. 20% of the damage taken by the Paladin is reflected to the attacker as Holy Damage. Lasts 6 sec.


If the developers want something competitive with Atonement, the answer is probably the reverse-style Atonement above. Again, Holy doesn't have much in the way of dps abilities to make smite-healing practical, but it has alot of diverse healing abilities that could deal damage relative to their classically-burst oriented style.

I'd like to see a return for Retribution Aura. Just Devo Aura, it can come back as a short cool down.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
7830
I like the idea of having 2 beacon targets. But it worries me that they might nerf the healing that goes towards our beacon.
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90 Draenei Paladin
15420
Another thing to consider might be to have a talent that adds a new Seal, a talent that Empowers Seals, and then a talent that Empowers/Alters the Hand spells. A similar kind of suggestion was made a long time ago, but I think it's worth mentioning again.

It would be something like:
Hands of Vengeance
Passive You Hand spells are empowered by Holy fury, changing their effects to smite enemies.
Hand of Doubt - Places a Hand on an enemy target, preventing them from attacking with spells or using physical abilities for 10 sec. Replaces Hand of Protection
Hand of Justice - Places a Hand on an enemy target, rooting them in place for 6 sec. Replaces Hand of Freedom
Hand of Remorse - Places a Hand on an enemy target, preventing them from stealthing or turning invisible, and diminishing the effects of damage reducing abilities. Replaces Hand of Salvation
Hand of Anguish - Places a Hand on an enemy target, reflecting 30% of their damage done. Lasts 12 sec or until they have dealt 100% of their maximum health. Replaces Hand of Sacrifice
Hand of Warding - Places of Hand on an enemy target, increasing the damage they take by 10% and redirecting any existing harmful damage over time effects from the Paladin to the enemy. Replaces Hand of Purity
Edited by Ozmademos on 1/19/2014 10:12 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13705
Eh...I haven't been excited about this talent tree since it came out.

Alot of things that were once baseline Ret things became Talents.

Long Arm of the Law
Repentence
Sacred Shield
Divine Purpose (Albeit 15%, not 25%)
Holy Avenger (Zealotry)
Sanctified Wrath (Which was a 60% critical chance increase to Hammer of Wrath. Making it a true execute move, compared to the trash that it is now.)

All used to literally be talents in the old Ret Tree. I say reinvent the Pally Tree, give Ret back what used to be baseline so we can be viable past 2k+ Arenas once again. (Sacred Shield Plz) And actually come up with some original and creative ideas for the Paladin tree.

So many other classes got some incredible and inventive talents. Why did we get hosed so hard?

Just asking.
Edited by Dàedalus on 1/19/2014 11:20 AM PST
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
10800
If you ret and don't like the holy tv's then you're doing it wrong. The t15 4pc was amazing, and it had to proc. this will be awesome for ST. And if we get another tier bonus like t16 4pc to go with holy tv's, we will be in an awesome spot.
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