Problem unique to healers.

90 Goblin Shaman
11460
LFR has never really been a challenge, Flex is hardly a challenge, SoO meh still a bit boring....just waiting for us to kill Garrosh so we can finally get into heroics. /cry

I've felt this tier is more about the tanks and dps rather than heal intensive.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10575
I understand your frustration, I don't have a solution.

Edited to add: I'm currently in a guild that raids. I'm topping healing charts (disc for the easy-mode), I'm not running out of mana, no one is dying, but we're hitting enrage timers. So obviously it's not a healing issue. I can't get better healing gear until the DPS increases so until then I'm playing alts and having fun in game in other ways.


Not enough to heal + hitting enrage timers w/everyone alive = time for one (or more) of your healers to dust off their DPS spec.
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90 Worgen Druid
6830
Dropping healers may solve 1 problem but that just gives rise to another problem...

It's crap how the go to solution for most raiding problems is to just drop healers.


"What's the minimum number of healers we have to have?"

or

"Can we X heal this?"

I do love when the occasional "We can one tank this" pops up though.


It would've been nice if once in awhile it would be beneficial to drop DPS...
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96 Tauren Druid
10245
11/18/2013 09:51 AMPosted by Arkavien
As a healer, the better my gear the less heals I have to cast, the less I have to pay attention to the game, ...and the more TV I can watch as I play.


The only thing that realistically limits the number of spells I cast is my regen, which definitely goes up over the course of the expansion. I cast probably 5x more spells per minute now than I did at the beginning of the expansion.
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90 Undead Monk
13535
Do heroics if you're bored.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150


"What's the minimum number of healers we have to have?"

or

"Can we X heal this?"

I do love when the occasional "We can one tank this" pops up though.


It would've been nice if once in awhile it would be beneficial to drop DPS...


Unfortunately, without a fight like Tsulong or Immersus (which isn't really a great example), you can't stack more healing for better effect.

They don't design fights that when they become 1 tankable, that extra slot becomes more Heal friendly than DPS friendly. Or where it's beneficial to survive longer.
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95 Night Elf Druid
5680
Anymore they're not even designing fights where it's *possible* to survive longer. No matter how good or how geared you are, you just get to watch your raid get oneshotted by the clock boss. Nothing fun about knowing that there isn't a damn thing you can do to improve your chances on the next attempt.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
Anymore they're not even designing fights where it's *possible* to survive longer. No matter how good or how geared you are, you just get to watch your raid get oneshotted by the clock boss. Nothing fun about knowing that there isn't a damn thing you can do to improve your chances on the next attempt.


Which is a shame. I don't mind DPS checks, but I like the idea of a soft check, vice a hard check. If you hit the timer, and the bosses raid damage becomes harsh enough that healers/Tanks won't be able to to keep up with it for more than X amount of time, that accomplishes the goal of killing the raid. But it also gives the raid the ability to sub in an a healer (or a tank) to see if they can't stretch it out a little. Maybe that extra 30 seconds is all they needed. Maybe the low DPS is just better geared as a heal spec (or can provide more value that way on that fight).
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90 Draenei Shaman
10225
As a healer, the better my gear the less heals I have to cast, the less I have to pay attention to the game, ...and the more TV I can watch as I play.

In short: my tanks and damage dealers get more and more fun to play as I gear them, and my healers get more and more boring.


In many ways, it's very strange that we have a role where if things are going well we have less and less to do.

It is nice when getting new gear you really feel a difference, to feel like our heals are stronger, to see the effect of a set bonus playing out, to not worry so much about resources and at times depending on the fight feel like we're more in control and not so frantic.

On the other hand, playing with well geared/skilled players can leave us suddenly finding ourselves twiddling our thumbs more or looking for something to do. I can say that I've found myself healing up small damage dents single target just to keep busy in the past. At least for Shammy's, while my DPS is nothing to write home about, at I can glyph my LB so that the very least it doesn't cost me mana and at most I can refill my mana bar. This at makes me feel like I'm doing something productive, and depending on the fight may set me up to be fully ready for a much higher damage phase

As someone who has played all three roles extensively over the years, I can say that just because tanks and DPS still have something to do when they get good gear doesn't mean that it's not boring. You start going through the motions, just doing what needs to be done so you can finish and leave. Without the challenge it becomes less fun for all roles (enjoying the people you play with is not included in these statements but it is a contributing factor into how fun things are and stay). You become complacent, which isn't good for any role and it does lack excitment.

Sadly there is no easy fix, as the carrot on the stick is both gear and challenge and removing gear from the equation takes away a good portion of what we're working towards. Along with this, removing gear upgrades wouldn't help any as while there are those of us who would down a boss for just the challenge others wouldn't and lose an activity they enjoy. Not to mention that without gear there would be little reason outside of achievements to go and do it again, meaning content would be short lived without giving us something else to work towards.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9840
You need to decrease the amount of healers you have, do harder content or do things besides heal during downtime in the fight(like DPS).

You could say "just start throwing out some DPS!" once you out gear things....but tanks and damage dealers don't have to completely switch roles once they gear up just to keep the game interesting.


You are looking at things wrong. Usually this is done by people who aren't competent in all aspects of the game. What I mean is, yes people have specializations, but that doesn't change the ultimate goal. Which is kill something before it kills you.

You act like your better gear is making you lazy, but your wanting to strictly adhere to your specialization is lazy. Once the not dying is solved all that's left is the killing. So its dps or nothing.

And guess what, when tanks are comfortable with their survival they do things like spec for damage.
Edited by Somurd on 11/20/2013 2:03 PM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
10225
Dropping a healer is the correct answer. One heal things if you need to. More fun for the healer to have to actually do something, and more DPS so the boss dies faster. Win/win.


Not all healers want to DPS, or want to DPS in a raid setting. To be honest, I rolled healers, leveled as much as possible as a healer, and heal at end game because I want to heal. Content like scenarios, or heroic scenarios where healers are optional along with Timeless Isle where you have to have a DPS spec and rather geared at that are frustrating.

There's all this new content for DPS but none for healers and not so much for tanks. The only real thing added with healers in mind is Proving Grounds but honestly, if I wanted to play with a group that can't DPS mobs down fast enough, has a tank that will suddenly take off running to nowhere in paticular with mobs hitting him in the back and out of my HR, and then they all stand in fire I would go heal a random. At least when they do all this stupid stuff I have at least a chance of them actually seeing me write "GET OUT OF THE FIRE OR DIE" in chat.

It's not that I hate my DPS spec. I do I like Enhance and have found myself enjoying Brawlers which is something that I didn't really know if I would like. But Brawlers does make sense as only having it as DPS as you are, you know, brawling. Having other content where healers are optional or not required or worse are forced to change specs in order to participate without any 5 mans or healer friendly content being added in the game is part of the problem.

Or the thinking that to make a raid boss more challenging the way to do it is to subtract a healer. Why not suggestions to one tank it if mechanics allow? Why not go with less people in total to try to down a boss with 9 or have a DPS take up a different role while the remaining push themselves to the utter limit to see if they can beat berserk.

No, it's always drop a healer, have them take up DPS. Not only do our roles become more trivial the more gear (along with skill) our team has with the answer being "go DPS". but also with our role having the least amount of content to preform our chosen role in, compared to the others is the problem.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9840
Not all healers want to DPS, or want to DPS in a raid setting. To be honest, I rolled healers, leveled as much as possible as a healer, and heal at end game because I want to heal. Content like scenarios, or heroic scenarios where healers are optional along with Timeless Isle where you have to have a DPS spec and rather geared at that are frustrating. There's all this new content for DPS but none for healers and not so much for tanks. The only real thing added with healers in mind is Proving Grounds but honestly, if I wanted to play with a group that can't DPS mobs down fast enough, has a tank that will suddenly take off running to nowhere in paticular with mobs hitting him in the back and out of my HR, and then they all stand in fire I would go heal a random. At least when they do all this stupid stuff I have at least a chance of them actually seeing me write "GET OUT OF THE FIRE OR DIE" in chat.It's not that I hate my DPS spec. I do I like Enhance and have found myself enjoying Brawlers which is something that I didn't really know if I would like. But Brawlers does make sense as only having it as DPS as you are, you know, brawling. Having other content where healers are optional or not required or worse are forced to change specs in order to participate without any 5 mans or healer friendly content being added in the game is part of the problem. Or the thinking that to make a raid boss more challenging the way to do it is to subtract a healer. Why not suggestions to one tank it if mechanics allow? Why not go with less people in total to try to down a boss with 9 or have a DPS take up a different role while the remaining push themselves to the utter limit to see if they can beat berserk. No, it's always drop a healer, have them take up DPS. Not only do our roles become more trivial the more gear (along with skill) our team has with the answer being "go DPS". but also with our role having the least amount of content to preform our chosen role in, compared to the others is the problem.


That conclusion is based on reality and doesn't take into account peoples wants or feelings. Bosses are only going to do so much damage, so the reasonable thing to do if you can is drop a healer add a dps and make it go faster.

If your raid is full of friends who just want to have a good time. Tell your dps to stop avoiding damage, that way you can keep the same amount of healers and they all have something to do, but its a waste of potential.

And fights that can be one tanked should be also, usually it doesn't require extra healers to do that. There just has been a lot of mechanic design to limit that.

The crying in this thread just doesn't make sense. Its like people are saying "what do I do when I have no one to heal and don't want to do anything else". The answer is you sit on your hands or you make your raid better. One is smart the other is bad.
Edited by Somurd on 11/20/2013 2:44 PM PST
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
Do heroics if you're bored.


Heroics have all of the same issues that people are expressing in this thread. Outside of a couple of fights, there simply is not the damage to heal, especially at 570+ ilvls. In particular, the last 3 heroic bosses are all 4-5 healed, and even then typical overheal runs in the 65-80% range.
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100 Human Paladin
10085
Getting better gear is the name of the game, it is what drives most people to keep raiding content, and no one can deny the excitement of getting that new shiny. However, there is a problem that comes with gearing up as a healer that doesn't with any other role.

As a tank, the better my gear the more indestructible I feel. I can take on more enemies without fear of death and take less damage from raid bosses large attacks in some cases even being able to ignore mechanics that used to one shot me.

As a damage dealer, the better my gear the more destruction I bring. I can kill faster, AoE down packs of mobs I used to have to crowd control and burn through whole phases of boss encounters that used to take forever.

As a healer, the better my gear the less heals I have to cast, the less I have to pay attention to the game, ...and the more TV I can watch as I play.

In short: my tanks and damage dealers get more and more fun to play as I gear them, and my healers get more and more boring.

Does anyone have any ideas how to address this? Do you think it is even possible to fix? Or do you completely disagree and think there is nothing to address?

You could say "just start throwing out some DPS!" once you out gear things....but tanks and damage dealers don't have to completely switch roles once they gear up just to keep the game interesting.


Dear God! I never thought about it like this! You're right though. It's why I prefer to give tier gear to my Ret spec than my Holy spec. I can't believe I never realized this.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
Does anyone have any ideas how to address this? Do you think it is even possible to fix? Or do you completely disagree and think there is nothing to address?


Give a buff like Vengeance which adds a DPS multiplier the longer raid members stay at 85%+ health. Refreshes every 10 seconds or so. So 1% after 10s, 6% after 1m etc.

This incentives you to keep healers around (and even to run 3 healers deep).

Yes, you hit a point where you can one heal encounters, but normally, the raid will take sizable damage (and they will drop below x% when they do). Why not reward them with faster clears when the bosses are already on farm.
Edited by Deadsecsi on 11/21/2013 11:46 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
9840
The upside of dps value is always much higher than what is possible for tanks and heals.

Its because the roles of tanks/heals are there to support dps while they do the main job. Its a pass/fail job where as dps the sky is really the limit. You can always kill a boss faster.

Healers really have it better than tanks though. Tanks upside is very low, but that small requirement is vital. They have to keep threat and not die, the latter req is a shared responsibility with healers. After that the only way they can get better is to do more dps.

A healers role is a little less crucial than tanks, but it also has a slightly higher ceiling for how much you can do. Once again though, once the requirement is met you have no where to improve unless you want to add dps.

One thing that allows healers more of a chance to fly, is that there are real options for dropping healers and adding dps, depending on how good your healers are. Tanks don't have this option as much and when they do its more of a mechanic/raid strat. Instead of being based on the personal effectiveness of the healer.
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90 Troll Shaman
11360
I personally find healing to be the most rewarding role to play. The more gear I get means the more that can go wrong and we still don't wipe. In fact sometimes we'll come out smelling like a rose when, a tier ago, we would have died horribly.

Healing/support roles are always the most rewarding to me. You may not see us all the time, but we're there, and its because of US that you can do those amazing numbers that you do so well.
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90 Night Elf Monk
12980
If you don't have to heal anyone, throw out some Denounces, or holy shock the boss, or something.
Healer power goes up at about the same rate as the power of the bosses you should be fighting. If you're bored to tears doing what you're doing, try to find something more difficult.
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90 Draenei Monk
12240
Getting better gear is the name of the game, it is what drives most people to keep raiding content, and no one can deny the excitement of getting that new shiny. However, there is a problem that comes with gearing up as a healer that doesn't with any other role.

As a tank, the better my gear the more indestructible I feel. I can take on more enemies without fear of death and take less damage from raid bosses large attacks in some cases even being able to ignore mechanics that used to one shot me.

As a damage dealer, the better my gear the more destruction I bring. I can kill faster, AoE down packs of mobs I used to have to crowd control and burn through whole phases of boss encounters that used to take forever.

As a healer, the better my gear the less heals I have to cast, the less I have to pay attention to the game, ...and the more TV I can watch as I play.

In short: my tanks and damage dealers get more and more fun to play as I gear them, and my healers get more and more boring.

Does anyone have any ideas how to address this? Do you think it is even possible to fix? Or do you completely disagree and think there is nothing to address?

You could say "just start throwing out some DPS!" once you out gear things....but tanks and damage dealers don't have to completely switch roles once they gear up just to keep the game interesting.

Play a Monk or priest to Dps, Dat Op Fistweaving / Atonement Ftw~
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