Paladin mana pools at level 85

85 Human Death Knight
10285
These two matches were posted on Arena Junkies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ4tW4TUBhs&hd=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_rNzcTEm1w&hd=1

Look at the Paladin's mana pool and compare them to the Druid and Shaman. In both scenarios, the Paladin sits at 80 percent or more mana while the other healers completely run out of mana, and that is all without an offensive dispeller even present.

Something is really wrong here.
Edited by Lopez on 11/17/2010 12:30 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4055
What would be really interesting is if you could find a video showing how long a Priest's mana lasts. The classes currently are not even close to balanced when it comes to mana longevity. Paladins are on the high end, Holy Priests are on the low end, and everyone else is around the middle.
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85 Human Death Knight
10285
I tried, but there are almost no PVP videos of Priests, at least on Arena Junkies, because it's completely accepted that every Priest interested in healing is going to have to reroll in Cataclysm.

And I'm being serious and trying not to QQ. It is just an accepted fact that healing Priests are worthless at level 85.
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100 Human Paladin
15300
It is just an accepted fact that healing Priests are worthless at level 85


What I see is a cleave team doing an exceptionally good job of locking down their opposing healer, forcing them to blow everything, while the opposition team attempts to go after a melee dps, and rather ineffectively at that. In both cases the shadowcleave team's strategy is the same, and in both cases it has similar results; high damage on the most fragile member of the team, who is then locked into blowing all the most expensive spells just to stay alive.
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85 Human Death Knight
10285
Right, and the Paladin completely dominates on mana because too many of the his big heals are cheap or even free.
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100 Draenei Shaman
16485
I tried, but there are almost no PVP videos of Priests, at least on Arena Junkies, because it's completely accepted that every Priest interested in healing is going to have to reroll in Cataclysm.

And I'm being serious and trying not to QQ. It is just an accepted fact that healing Priests are worthless at level 85.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsqx-knSjCA

Rshammy/war vs priest/rogue

No idea how good they were but the priest/rogue was winning on mana (didn't show the whole fight tho).
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
6000
Priest main complaining about paladins again, what's new?

What cheap heals? The only sort of big cheap heal is WoG and that takes 3 holy power to be at its strongest. HS was nerfed to be worse than Holy Light now.

I've seen hpallies on the beta run out of mana just as quick as any shaman.
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85 Goblin Priest
5400
Paladin's continue to be the golden boys of Blizzard.

But hey, I do trust they will make Priest right, how soon they actually do it is what I'm interested in.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
11145
When will Priests stop crying about Paladins?

All you do is whinge about Paladin Mana Regen EVEN when Druid's mana regen was 10 times better than Paladins
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4055
When will Priests stop crying about Paladins?

All you do is whinge about Paladin Mana Regen EVEN when Druid's mana regen was 10 times better than Paladins


Regen is irrelevant. What matters is longevity, and currently Paladins have excellent longevity.

Holy Shock is dirt cheap and generates Holy Power. Holy Light is dirt cheap, can generate Holy Power, and is frequently hasted to make it more usable. Divine Light has good HPM, can generate Holy Power, and is frequently hasted. Beacon gives you free healing. Protector of the innocent gives you free healing.

Paladin efficiency is much higher than that of any other healer. They don't need strong regen to last a long time. If for some reason they do need additional regen, Paladins have options. They can trade GCDs for mana, and they can get additional regen when healing isn't needed.
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
6000
[

Holy Shock is dirt cheap and generates Holy Power. Holy Light is dirt cheap, can generate Holy Power, and is frequently hasted to make it more usable. Divine Light has good HPM, can generate Holy Power, and is frequently hasted. Beacon gives you free healing. Protector of the innocent gives you free healing.

Paladin efficiency is much higher than that of any other healer. They don't need strong regen to last a long time. If for some reason they do need additional regen, Paladins have options. They can trade GCDs for mana, and they can get additional regen when healing isn't needed.


Holy shock was nerfed to be worse than HL. And it is the only way to generate HP. HL and DL only generate HP if you are healing a target with a beacon on it. With the level of crit on gear at 85 I'm highly doubtful that IoL procs all that frequently and DL eats through mana anyway so it's not something you want to spam. If you're talking about pvp, HL is absolutely worthless. It's too slow and heals for nothing especially when people are running around with over 100k hp. You try healing someone with a slew of HLs and chances are they will be dead very quickly. Now that HS is worse than that it's little more than a way to generate HP.

And yes, the whole priests complaining about this or that ability of other classes is getting really old. Seriously shamans have way more problems on the beta and you don't see them with this constant bitter attitude against other classes. I'm not saying all priests do this, but there certainly seem to be a lot of them. Maybe they are just more vocal than other priests, who knows....
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87 Blood Elf Priest
12610
Honestly, prot paladin silence not having a DR is far more OP. Not that mana is balanced, just that Prot is again (still) broken.
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
6000


Another typical paladin excuse: to be at its strongest. And its strongest is what? MUCH better than any other class'? What about its weakest? About on par with my strongest?

Paladins have been OP for years. It's not going to change. But really, there's very little point in trying to justify it or explain why it's not true. It patently IS true. And we resent it. Put your nose back in joint. Did you ever consider that maybe, just MAYBE, priest might have a valid point occasionally?

Or do you really believe that it's your mad skill that makes paladins so OP? Just like every other paladin? The best players in WoW play paladins, that's it!


And there you go proving to be yet another bitter priest ripping another class. Different classes are different. WoG is a unique paladin ability just as priests have a million unique abilities of their own. Priests don't have an equivalent of WoG so what are you comparing exactly? Though I guarantee you a one point WoG is not on par with your strongest spell. That's a ridiculous assertion. Priests just had their direct heals buffed and who knows, maybe they have some other buffs in the works too. Stop whining about the abilities of other classes and focus on your own class. Again, shamans are in far worse shape and yet you don't see this type of attitude from them.

Oh and I never said a priest can't have a valid point. There are plenty of priests that have come up with thoughtful, great posts. But this thread is not that. It's just another qq thread. People need to stop obsessing over this or that ability of other classes focus on their own weakness and brainstorm ways to improve the issues they have (which some priests have indeed done).
Edited by Galatea on 11/18/2010 10:14 AM PST
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80 Human Paladin
4405
Priest main complaining about paladins again, what's new?

What cheap heals? The only sort of big cheap heal is WoG and that takes 3 holy power to be at its strongest. HS was nerfed to be worse than Holy Light now.

I've seen hpallies on the beta run out of mana just as quick as any shaman.


Another typical paladin excuse: to be at its strongest. And its strongest is what? MUCH better than any other class'? What about its weakest? About on par with my strongest?

Paladins have been OP for years. It's not going to change. But really, there's very little point in trying to justify it or explain why it's not true. It patently IS true. And we resent it. Put your nose back in joint. Did you ever consider that maybe, just MAYBE, priest might have a valid point occasionally?

Or do you really believe that it's your mad skill that makes paladins so OP? Just like every other paladin? The best players in WoW play paladins, that's it!


OP for years???? Did you play this game before WotLK??

Vanilla Holy Pally's were support healers, buffbots and Cleansebots. We couldn't really solo heal that well unless we outgeared the run AND had a lot of healing cloth.

TBC we were solid single target healers but were crippled by group damage and were generally on the outside looking in for Heroic MGT and SWP.

We had ONE role in LK. Tank healer. Why is it always Priests? They infest every Pally, Druid or Shammy thread like roaches.
Edited by Rubytuesday on 11/18/2010 10:55 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
11170
11/17/2010 3:49 PMPosted by Galatea
Priest main complaining about paladins again, what's new?

What cheap heals? The only sort of big cheap heal is WoG and that takes 3 holy power to be at its strongest. HS was nerfed to be worse than Holy Light now.

I've seen hpallies on the beta run out of mana just as quick as any shaman.


You should at least post on your Holy Paladin since you seem to be defending Holy Paladin mana regen to be "OK". WoG has a 30% chance not to cost any Holy Power and Holy Shock is pretty effective. Check out Belligerentz Gladiator Holy Paladin PvP on Beta he seems to be having a Blast with Exorcism being used offensively and hitting like smite but with a much faster cast time.

A paladin can go oom if they use the wrong spells just like any other healer when in similar gear but if you see how well he manages his mana it seems to be near infinite when both Holy Paladins in the video have the same mana regeneration.

Apart from that, the Discipline Priests in PvP videos still have no mobility, seem to still be using Flash Heal which costs a lot at 85 and penance doesn't heal enough, Smite cast is really long and interruptible.

I guess priests will always be balanced around having the OP Mana Burn and then it being nerfed because others think it is unfair which it is but it does not justify Priest Emergency tools, mobility, no dispel protection and having to be dependent on a pet or 8-10 second cast time of Hymn of Hope.
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