Why nerfs to Holy Pally heals?

85 Human Paladin
3930
To the ground
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1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
its all lies palys are meant to spammed FoL in PvP and be locked out of spells even if you "Juke". They must die within stun chains and deep freeze followed by a counterspell combo.

some of the nerfs were needed, but they over did it. @ 85 holy shock crits for like 18ks if lucky

you have to Cast Divine light to heal, and not go OOM from spamming FoL when you struggle to keep a player up through massive dmg etc.


its all good guys if you whine enough they will fix it. Almost all classes @ 80 = FOTM all year long baby.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4765
it was a necessary nerf for pvp, holy paladins were unkillable gods and if holy shock / POTI stayed the same with the new infusion of light buff where it affects divine light too we would be even more OP than in season 5


I pretty much knew that when I saw the nerf was only to Holy Shock, that it was a pvp nerf. It is unfortunate seeing a staple holy spell for pve get gutted, but perhaps we will still be balanced. Only time will tell at 85.

I wish that Blizzard would just make changes affect either pvp or pve, not both.


holy shock has always been the primary pvp heal and only just recently became useful for pve, the infusion of light change is probably a larger overall benefit for both anyways


I'd like to point out the obvious here that no one asked Blizzard to make Holy Shock such a heavy staple of our raid healing rotation. Since they decided this holy power mechanic was such a great idea and HAD to be implemented, had they simply set up holy power to proc some other way(e.g., procs from any crit heal by the pally, or any crit strike or crushing blow inflicted upon the pally), I'm sure it would have seemed more balanced.

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85 Blood Elf Paladin
6140
It was a PvP nerf, and in order to make up for it in PvE (where we didn't need a nerf) they buffed some other stuff, like Holy Light.

Flash of Light may be game breaking, but they're trying to make PvP different from Wrath:

Wrath: Healer gets killed because of lack of throughput.

Cata: Healer gets killed because of lack of mana.

Flash of Light will quicken your demise.
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81 Human Paladin
2090
Who care about PvP.

It trash. Has been for years.

So instead of coding that game so a heal does less in PvP than in PvE just nerf it to nothing so it's worthless in both.

That helps what? Balance craptastic PvP. Thanks really great move:P

I always love nerfs to a toon in PvE because of PvP. Better to be lazy in programing and nerf both than to code a nerf one way or the other.
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80 Draenei Mage
1320
This isn't just a PvP nerf. All classes except Priests were healing for too much in PvE as well.

As for PvP balance not being important, it is just a matter of opinion. The game caters to both crowds and they are going to balance around both. The game would stink if you removed either aspect completely imo. PvP players get nerfed because of PvE all the time too.
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80 Gnome Mage
1810
Who care about PvP.

It trash. Has been for years.

So instead of coding that game so a heal does less in PvP than in PvE just nerf it to nothing so it's worthless in both.

That helps what? Balance craptastic PvP. Thanks really great move:P

I always love nerfs to a toon in PvE because of PvP. Better to be lazy in programing and nerf both than to code a nerf one way or the other.


When did everyone start deciding WoW pvp sucked?
I've played a bunch of MMOs and WoW pvp is the best by like 10 times. Which MMOs have you played that have done it better? And please don't consider "arena" style "mmos" where a single setting is the only thing to consider for class balance.

"Has been for years"? WTF, are you saying pvp was BALANCED in vanilla? what a *!!#ing sorry ass joke, did you even play back then? Warriors were absolute trash until they grabed a arcanite reaper than 2 shot everyone. Casters DID NOT EVEN SCALE, so that they pwned people in blues and greens and got utterly decimated by melee in purples.

Are you referring to TBC? where IF YOU WERE LUCKY you had one spec in your class that could hold up to the few pvp powerhouse classes?

Pre-4.0 pvp was in a better balanced state than it had even been, and post cata it looks to improve even further.

What the *!!# is everyone smoking?
Edited by Kocosephia on 11/22/2010 8:17 AM PST
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34 Human Warlock
150
I've played a bunch of MMOs and WoW pvp is the best by like 10 times. Which MMOs have you played that have done it better? And please don't consider "arena" style "mmos" where a single setting is the only thing to consider for class balance.


Guild Wars, for one, did PvP much better than WoW. In fact, it was designed around it. Another thing great about Guild Wars was that PvP & PvE changes to spells & abilities were kept separate (eventually). The Guild Wars playerbase has severely declined, owing mostly to Guild Wars 2's imminent release. But I can safely say that the PvP in WoW is pretty much garbage.
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90 Human Paladin
4715

But just to re-iterate, Holy shock has always been a core healing spell used in Pve, not just Pvp. The old talent that gave us instant Flash of light was due to Holy Shock. Both used in Pve and Pvp. Both of which used Holy Shock.


Absolutely. I used it before. I just use it more now.
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85 Human Paladin
7940
In the beta Holy Shock doesn't trigger PoTI, only casted spells trigger PoTI (FoL, HL, DL). Even the prot pvp spec will be altered/destroyed later on (cata live) due to the fact that WoG won't trigger PoTI like it does now. Keep in mind that PoTI has a fixed value, so if it heals now for 2k per talent point out of a possible 3 points, in cata this fixed value won't change, and 2-6k heal from POTI in cata when non tank health pool is over 100k, will be a joke.
Edited by Scifipala on 11/22/2010 11:17 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
6000
Because holy shock heals me from 20% to 90% before my protector of the innocent talent.

Now, you may say to this "That doesnt answer antyhing about 85" or w/e

BUT WAIT think abnout it
If holy shock is crit healing for 15k, one would assume it might heal for far more at 85.
Idk I don't play the beta so I can't say for sure. But, blizz wants healers to watch their mana more. I'd say that it might have something to do with that to some extent, being it wont heal for as much.


It was critting around 19k-22k on the beta. Keep in mind crit is very low at 85. PotI does not trigger if the HS is cast on yourself. Also keep in mind people have over 100k health on the beta. HS was op on live, but it was fine on the beta. Now HS is worse than Holy Light, barely worth casting. Basically it's for hp generation. This nerf was completely unnecessary. Paladins on beta still had to cast because instants alone weren't going to keep people up. But apparently the whiners who don't want to use their ccs got through to blizz.
Edited by Galatea on 11/22/2010 12:04 PM PST
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85 Human Priest
2255
Because holy shock heals me from 20% to 90% before my protector of the innocent talent.

Now, you may say to this "That doesnt answer antyhing about 85" or w/e

BUT WAIT think abnout it
If holy shock is crit healing for 15k, one would assume it might heal for far more at 85.
Idk I don't play the beta so I can't say for sure. But, blizz wants healers to watch their mana more. I'd say that it might have something to do with that to some extent, being it wont heal for as much.


It was critting around 19k-22k on the beta. Keep in mind crit is very low at 85. PotI does not trigger if the HS is cast on yourself. Also keep in mind people have over 100k health on the beta. HS was op on live, but it was fine on the beta. Now HS is worse than Holy Light, barely worth casting. Basically it's for hp generation. This nerf was completely unnecessary. Paladins on beta still had to cast because instants alone weren't going to keep people up. But apparently the whiners who don't want to use their ccs got through to blizz.



While I agree the changes seem a bit too heavy handed, the fact that my 600 resil paladin could easily outheal 3 or 4 dps'ers on me just with HS + WOG spam was definitely a problem. CC wasn't enough as I could full heal the moment CC broke (and thanks to the 2 second ICD on Blessed Life, I always had 3 HP ready to rock). Yea sure chain CC could get me down, but that required 3 people to time their CC's perfectly, and 99% of the time that just doesn't happen.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/dragonblight/mariela

That's my pally there.

edit - yada yada balanced for 85, I know. Here's hoping they give it some upward tweaks again (actually to all healing and mana efficiency in general for all healer classes) come a patch or 2 into Cata.
Edited by Ryvers on 11/22/2010 12:53 PM PST
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80 Gnome Mage
1810
Well it hurts alot more for me as I have chosen to join a group of people who clear level 60 content at level 60. We dont have Divine Light, Holy Light takes to long due to lack of haste at this level so is only good for light damage, and Flash of Light will eat my 7k Mana for breakfast in about 15 seconds. So holy shot with Word of Glory was my staple for healing, I could bring a tank from 2k back to 6k pretty easily, can't do that now with the change. Though Word of Glory with one holy power is sitll effective at my level for now, so I could holy shock/word of glory, but thats not optimal either.


there is nothing easier in this game than pre-max level healing. That's suppose to change in cata, thank god, but seeing as it's not cata yet, I don't understand how you would have trouble healing in todays dungeons by rolling your face across your keyboard.

In regards to holy light: welcome back to predictive healing. Tanks completely mitigate like 30-40% of damage, so you won't have to heal 30-40% of hits, during that time you should be predictive healing with holy light, and canceling if the healing is unnessesary. This will save you a ton of mana, if you are indeed, somehow, having mana problems pre-80.

EDIT: I think I misunderstood you. If you're doing 60 raids at 60, i can see this being more of a problem, though the last time I did 60 content at 60 (about 3 months after WOTLK) it was still rediculously easy (read: completed 40 man raids with 15-20 people) compared to what it used to be. And I've raided since I was part of the first MC/ONY guild on my server.

Plus whats the problem with our pvp healing, for 2 years resto druids needed 3 to 4 to down them, and it was never fixed, holy gets a few weeks to shine and we get nerfed


This is exactly what they are trying to fix in cata. If you can't tank 3 to 4 people, than it's working as intended. The basic design is that your suppose to be able to heal through 1 dps at mid to high efficiency, 2 dps at low efficiency, and 3+ dps only as long as emergency cooldowns last. If you're below this design, you'll probably be buffed, if you're above it, you'll probably be nerffed.

I wouldn't actually be surprised to see further paladin nerfs honestly, as they are still very beastly at 85 as of the latest beta build. druids might come down a bit more too, from what i hear shaman and priest are at about the right spot, or a little low in disc's case.
Edited by Kocosephia on 11/22/2010 5:53 PM PST
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