how hunters looking in pvp now and come cata?

85 Goblin Hunter
2925
ok cool cool, so its sounding pretty workable. im mainly looking to do bg's, thats where i have my most fun. though i havent been able to do arena with my own actual character i leveled up, i dont think il like it much since i dnt play a whole lot and my group would be of the same lol


Yeah BGs are awesome. I find I'm putting out pretty decent damage and have a lot of defensive tools to help survive. Some people disagree, but there always is someone who disagrees.


Are you serious? awesome? you dont know what your talking about and thats obvious. i have been playing 5 years, have over 200k hks on 2 hunters and i have to reply. i havent done a lot of arena because i hate los. sure i can still do ok but compared to where i was at pre patch? hunters suck badly, are the worst class in the game for pvp and i also play 7 other toons. those toons all have at least 10k most 30k+ hks plus and every one of them now has it over hunters as i know whats wrong with them. so do most who are playing their main and not their undergeared alts like what is the norm atm in bg's and sounds like you are facing.

sure i have topped a few bgs since the patch, i usually topped them/ top 3 pre-patch and i know i cant effect the same kind of influence in a bg as i used to. i die far more often and that is not a skill issue at all as the kiting really hasnt changed at all, conc was buffed too. hunters were not op pre patch either. so where are we now? very last, play a few bgs and note how many hunters are in them, probably none but yourself. pre patch that was rare. i got in 3 av's in a row as the only hunter before i got sick of it, both sides, as you see, like those hunters who were missing i dont enjoy it at all anymore. my lock has been 80 for a few hours, has a few pieces of wrathful and would destroy my hunter. no matter how skilled you are i bet i would beat you. hunters are that bad atm.


If you say so. But I'm still doing well enough and am finding BGs to be awesome.
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85 Orc Hunter
6065

Well then the pro team can focus fire me. I'll spec MM so I can deterrence, readiness, deterrence. I'll also stack a whole lot of stamina. That way while they sit there trying to kill me, my team can kill them.


You can't do that while being stunned or disarmed so bing focused won't let you do any of that. Beside stacking stam and making your damage even worse by speccing MM would get you kicked off a serious team.

Also, I'm really having trouble believing that being a 10 sec meat shield is a compelling reason to think hunter are going to be fine.
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43 Blood Elf Rogue
0
You can't do that while being stunned or disarmed so bing focused won't let you do any of that. Beside stacking stam and making your damage even worse by speccing MM would get you kicked off a serious team.


Its not as if the team would heal monkey.
Also, for rated bgs, very unlikely. Its not about hks, damage, and kbs. Hunters can still escort FC, and defend the flag, or assist with mid territory control.
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85 Goblin Hunter
2925
I'm really sick of defending myself.
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85 Night Elf Hunter
6205
Don't fret.

Some people will always have higher expectations on certain things than others.
We just simply expect more out of our PvP experience than you do.

I am having a lot of success playing a speed-bump dispel-bot.

I buy some time for team mates by being an irresistible free-hk decoy, with deterrence up, for 5 secs.
Hopefully they can kill our opponents before they kill me, or shortly after.

I also help by tranquilizing as many buffs off as many targets as my focus regen allows, and hope enough important ones get dispelled for my team to gain an advantage before they kill me, or shortly after.

Deterrence also helps keep me alive for 5 additional seconds while I charge into the fray to drop as many of my traps as I can to trip them up, before they kill me.



Alas..

That's not what I rolled my Hunter for.


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3 Night Elf Priest
0
I'm really sick of defending myself.


It's fine and dandy if you are having fun with it, but like the person said above.. Expectations...................................

To a lot of the hunter community the class just isn't performing like it should. Judging by your armory maybe you are just casual. Some of the people that play want to be top dog and with the hunter in both PVP and PVE and they cannot so it frustrates them.

I have been in beta now or 3 months and there is a LOT wrong with hunters. Some things aren't working at all. Some things kind of work, but not according to what the tooltip says. Which means it will probably be changed but who knows. It goes well beyond the PVP at level 80. At 85 it gets worse when people are critting you for 30k+ and you are hitting back at 5-9k. I am surprised you say you can go toe to toe with people right now. They have to be really bad players, bots, or afk players.
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3 Tauren Druid
0
I think Hunters might have it tough in Arena, but in BGs we're fine.

In duels we can get beaten by most people, but duels don't mean much.


Any class who consistently loses to other classes 1v1 will get focused because everyone recognizes the easiest kill. So I would disagree that duels don't mean much. Any class who is recognized as an easy kill is going to cause balancing issues in a group PvP setting.
I do recognize that Blizzard doesn't place a priority on individual 1v1 performance, but that isn't entirely the same thing.


That's a gross oversimplification of strategy. The easiest one to kill should be the first one to kill. Hunter's may not be able to win against other classes but I would say we're not the easiest ones to kill in a group setting. Our strengths are being able to lengthen the fight via kiting, scatter, trap, and to stay alive for as long as possible. If you couple our ability to not do very much damage with the fact that we may be able to live the longest when played correctly you get to the conclusion that a hunter doesn't do enough damage and is too mobile to be worth killing first while you have that warlock beating on you doing the majority of the damage.
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3 Night Elf Priest
0
I think Hunters might have it tough in Arena, but in BGs we're fine.

In duels we can get beaten by most people, but duels don't mean much.


Any class who consistently loses to other classes 1v1 will get focused because everyone recognizes the easiest kill. So I would disagree that duels don't mean much. Any class who is recognized as an easy kill is going to cause balancing issues in a group PvP setting.
I do recognize that Blizzard doesn't place a priority on individual 1v1 performance, but that isn't entirely the same thing.


This ^^^^

Rated BGs are going to be the same thing. I have played my hunter since almost day 1, and have been in the BC beta, and now CATA betas. Things have never been this bad. Even back in 5v5s who was the first target? Hunters.. On vent you would see there is a hunter and take him out. That's when we were OK at PVP. We are worse than that and we will be focused..

Keep playing if you have fun though, but don't tell the hardcore players hunters are fine because they will laugh at you.
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3 Night Elf Priest
0
I think Hunters might have it tough in Arena, but in BGs we're fine.

In duels we can get beaten by most people, but duels don't mean much.


Any class who consistently loses to other classes 1v1 will get focused because everyone recognizes the easiest kill. So I would disagree that duels don't mean much. Any class who is recognized as an easy kill is going to cause balancing issues in a group PvP setting.
I do recognize that Blizzard doesn't place a priority on individual 1v1 performance, but that isn't entirely the same thing.


That's a gross oversimplification of strategy. The easiest one to kill should be the first one to kill. Hunter's may not be able to win against other classes but I would say we're not the easiest ones to kill in a group setting. Our strengths are being able to lengthen the fight via kiting, scatter, trap, and to stay alive for as long as possible. If you couple our ability to not do very much damage with the fact that we may be able to live the longest when played correctly you get to the conclusion that a hunter doesn't do enough damage and is too mobile to be worth killing first while you have that warlock beating on you doing the majority of the damage.


It's actually not though. I haven't been in many rated BGs yet but the ones I have been in if there was a hunter they are the first to die. In regular pug BGs hunters can sit back and kill steal, and snipe players. In anything that's marginally competitive hunters will either not be there or be killed first. That's just the way of the arena/rated bg.
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3 Tauren Druid
0
I think Hunters might have it tough in Arena, but in BGs we're fine.

In duels we can get beaten by most people, but duels don't mean much.


Any class who consistently loses to other classes 1v1 will get focused because everyone recognizes the easiest kill. So I would disagree that duels don't mean much. Any class who is recognized as an easy kill is going to cause balancing issues in a group PvP setting.
I do recognize that Blizzard doesn't place a priority on individual 1v1 performance, but that isn't entirely the same thing.


That's a gross oversimplification of strategy. The easiest one to kill should be the first one to kill. Hunter's may not be able to win against other classes but I would say we're not the easiest ones to kill in a group setting. Our strengths are being able to lengthen the fight via kiting, scatter, trap, and to stay alive for as long as possible. If you couple our ability to not do very much damage with the fact that we may be able to live the longest when played correctly you get to the conclusion that a hunter doesn't do enough damage and is too mobile to be worth killing first while you have that warlock beating on you doing the majority of the damage.


It's actually not though. I haven't been in many rated BGs yet but the ones I have been in if there was a hunter they are the first to die. In regular pug BGs hunters can sit back and kill steal, and snipe players. In anything that's marginally competitive hunters will either not be there or be killed first. That's just the way of the arena/rated bg.


That doesn't make alot of sense though. Why would you attack the hunter who can still dps while under fire instead of...say the warlock who has only a couple of outs and you can shut down his dps while on him via pushback / counterspell etc. A hunter isn't so reliant on peels to survive. A warlock however, is almost completely dependent on them. It doesn't make alot of sense unless the opposite of what you think is true. Hunter's have so much utility that they're worth killing first despite their low damage and practically infinite escape mechanisms. Or alternatively their health pool, armor, and resilience allocation is low enough to make them a soft target. Or the damage output is contrary to what everyone is saying and they are being treated as a larger threat. Or possibly because people are stuck on the idea that hunter's should be killed first because they hit like trucks if you leave them alone.
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3 Night Elf Priest
0
Did you do arena in WOTLK at all? If yes what class did all the top arena teams kill first if it was present? The Hunter. Why? LOL you got me.. If I had to guess I would say it's because they are semi-squishy and have less protection based CDs available to them. I was more on the casual side with my hunter and arena. I didn't even hit 2k. It was too frustrating to always be killed first.

In beta it's the same thing in rated BGs. In ventrillo you will hear people say to kill the hunter. Nobody likes being sniped from the outside even if it's only for a couple thousand, or maybe it's carryover from WOTLK? Warlock can port themselves out after stunning all the melee for 4 seconds (I think it's 4 sec?), Rogues vanish, Mages Block, Priests fear everyone and can take a ton of hits, Druids can stay alive forever it seems, all the others are plate classes that have buffs to heals taken.. Except Shaman who are usually #2 on the kill chart.

It might change though.. Who knows. Hunters don't hit very hard at 85 and the damage can be healed through easily. But I haven't seen more than 1 hunter at a time in a rated BG. Most of the time there isn't even a hunter in there unless I play mine.
Edited by Alssa on 11/18/2010 4:16 AM PST
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85 Orc Hunter
6065
That doesn't make alot of sense though. Why would you attack the hunter who can still dps while under fire instead of...say the warlock who has only a couple of outs and you can shut down his dps while on him via pushback / counterspell etc. A hunter isn't so reliant on peels to survive. A warlock however, is almost completely dependent on them. It doesn't make alot of sense unless the opposite of what you think is true. Hunter's have so much utility that they're worth killing first despite their low damage and practically infinite escape mechanisms. Or alternatively their health pool, armor, and resilience allocation is low enough to make them a soft target. Or the damage output is contrary to what everyone is saying and they are being treated as a larger threat. Or possibly because people are stuck on the idea that hunter's should be killed first because they hit like trucks if you leave them alone.


Hunter cannot DPS under fire any better then a warlock can, epically if they are sitting on them.

Did you know that steady shot gets pushed back and the curse of tongues (and other cast time increasing spells) increase the cast time of steady shot? Silencing us make traps, intimidation, and something else I'm forgetting unusable? and that disarms make deterrence unusable?

Also they are not sitting on the hunter because he is a real ranged threat, they are concentrating on them because the hunter will either die or soak up an enormous amount healing before hes dead.

Most of the other classes have a CD to use to make them a unattractive target like ice block, bubbles, etc. deterrence pales in comparison to them.
Edited by Xannatose on 11/18/2010 4:25 AM PST
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3 Tauren Druid
0
Did you do arena in WOTLK at all? If yes what class did all the top arena teams kill first if it was present? The Hunter. Why? LOL you got me.. If I had to guess I would say it's because they are semi-squishy and have less protection based CDs available to them. I was more on the casual side with my hunter and arena. I didn't even hit 2k. It was too frustrating to always be killed first.

In beta it's the same thing in rated BGs. In ventrillo you will hear people say to kill the hunter. Nobody likes being sniped from the outside even if it's only for a couple thousand, or maybe it's carryover from WOTLK? Warlock can port themselves out after stunning all the melee for 4 seconds (I think it's 4 sec?), Rogues vanish, Mages Block, Priests fear everyone and can take a ton of hits, Druids can stay alive forever it seems, all the others are plate classes that have buffs to heals taken.. Except Shaman who are usually #2 on the kill chart.

It might change though.. Who knows. Hunters don't hit very hard at 85 and the damage can be healed through easily. But I haven't seen more than 1 hunter at a time in a rated BG. Most of the time there isn't even a hunter in there unless I play mine.


They targeted the hunter not because they were the squishiest and easiest to kill but because of how much damage and control we exert if we're left alone. If you attack a hunter you limit his damage considerably because of wasting GCD's and not being able to chain steady into a target due to kiting all day. If you take away the damage then the entire reason of attacking the hunter first is significantly lessened.
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3 Tauren Druid
0
Hunter cannot DPS under fire any better then a warlock can, epically if they are sitting on them.
Did you know that steady shot gets pushed back and the curse of tongues (and other cast time increasing spells) increase the cast time of steady shot? Silencing us make traps, intimidation, and something else I'm forgetting unusable? and that disarms make deterrence unusable?
Also they are not sitting on the hunter because he is a real ranged threat, they are concentrating on them because he will either die or soak up an enormous amount healing before hes dead.
Most of the other classes have a CD to use to make them a unattractive target like ice block, bubbles, etc. deterrence pales in comparison to them.

Of course a hunter can dps under fire better than a warlock (except maybe an aff lock). With AoTF we can now do even more damage under fire than we used to be able to. It may not be to the melee that is attacking you but to a ranged target that isn't canceling your steady/cobra shot by in-ranging it you'd be doing as much damage minus auto shots on the move as you would be standing still. As to CoT I seriously doubt that's going to be going live or not going to get fixed. There's a serious balance issue on an ability if it's limiting the rate at which you regain your resource for dps. Only an idiot would waste a silence on a hunter when there are significantly more effective targets and a 5 second disarm that prevents you from using deterrance isn't all that ridiculous. A mage can't iceblock out of a school lock neither can paladins bubble out of a school lock. If you couple the fact that we have the most utility for spreading gaps of all classes we can reduce incoming melee damage by the most while still dpsing. We have a freedom that lasts 8 seconds and isn't on a shared cooldown with freedom. We have a gap creator on a 16 second cooldown or decreasing it's remaining cooldown by 2 seconds every 2 seconds for the duration that you are under duress. We have a trap that is a passive movement speed slow in a 12 yard radius and can prevent movement for 4 seconds every 24 seconds. We have a short range disorient that lasts 4 seconds. We have a long range CC on a 1 minute cooldown or a 3 second stun on a 1 minute cooldown or a 3 second silence on a 20 second cooldown. We also have a 10% healing reduction. We have a trap that can ranged cast crippling poison, put up a poison, or ranged spread mind numbing poison (and also stop movement for 4 seconds). We can permanently daze a target as MM. We have all of that which if used correctly and in proper sequence makes us the most slippery class in the game. And yet you say we are squishy and are complaining about deterrence not being as effective as iceblock? If you kite effectively your squishiness is reduced significantly.
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3 Tauren Druid
0
That's a gross oversimplification of strategy. The easiest one to kill should be the first one to kill. Hunter's may not be able to win against other classes but I would say we're not the easiest ones to kill in a group setting. Our strengths are being able to lengthen the fight via kiting, scatter, trap, and to stay alive for as long as possible. If you couple our ability to not do very much damage with the fact that we may be able to live the longest when played correctly you get to the conclusion that a hunter doesn't do enough damage and is too mobile to be worth killing first while you have that warlock beating on you doing the majority of the damage.

But if Hunters are losing 1v1 to almost ALL other classes, that means the survival mechanisms we have aren't sufficient. Sure, there's stuff Hunters can do in a BG environment and we have always excelled in that environment. Right now other classes are seeing that Hunters have weaknesses they didn't have before, so we're getting more "attention" and being tested to prove we're not squishy.


Not necessarily. If we're surviving fine but our damage is insufficient to get through their survival before their damage gets through our survival then what you stated still applies. We'll still lose. If you throw in a healer to the mix however you get significantly better results because we'll be taking less damage thus requiring less heals than a warlock in the same situation.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
10220
Right now, hunter's are the same as they ever were in terms for their role in PvP. and yes i mean Role, not all around op class. hunter's are meant for "Hunting". learn your abilities and u will no your purpose:) rogues are known for stun locks and burst damage, mage's are CC and burst damage. as for hunter's we have burst damage, tracking, CC, and BM has a stun lock.
tracking can come in very handy versus a rogue along with flare. Track Hidden greatly increase's stealth detection which is very handy in arenas. burst damage and stun locks versus healer's. it depends what class u like and what role u like playing. yes, i agree that pally's are op healer's in pvp atm but op class's shouldnt discourage u from playing what you like:)

now, it's not impossible to try and be that all around op class but some are better at it than other's. holy pally's are op cause they constantly heal and throw exorcism after healing against a non-healer, but say versus a priest, resto druid, or shamman they are equally matched. as for hunter's we are op versus rogue's(i know alot disagree). but, if a rogue get's a drop on u then they are doing their job:) it all depends on role's and class's u like.
Edited by Grimbane on 11/18/2010 3:09 PM PST
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85 Night Elf Hunter
6205
Of course a hunter can dps under fire better than a warlock (except maybe an aff lock). With AoTF we can now do even more damage under fire than we used to be able to. It may not be to the melee that is attacking you but to a ranged target that isn't canceling your steady/cobra shot by in-ranging it you'd be doing as much damage minus auto shots on the move as you would be standing still.

I have no theoretical on-paper counter for this.
All I only know is your scenario seldom materialize in game reality.
We have all of that which if Fix: glyphed and (often mutually exclusively) spec'd, then used correctly and in proper sequence makes us the most slippery class in the game.

In other words, play like an MLG pro and maybe we can kill a scrub paladin before he hammer-of-lol us to death.

No, sorry my bad. It only means we could likely escape being hammer-of-lol'd to death by said paladin.
And yet you say we are squishy and are complaining about deterrence not being as effective as iceblock? If you kite effectively your squishiness is reduced significantly.
To kite effectively requires Aspect of the Fox, thus hunters lvl 1-82 are just S.O.L. I guess.
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