So how did Inner Rage work out?

85 Draenei Warrior
9495
the rate of cost increase is not high enough and 50 rage can be filled very quickly, while 100 rage not as much, the trick is, how its spent.

on your model:
i get 105 rage, HS now costs 120% or 36. I have only "lost" 1 rage. but for that rage i get 10% bonus damage for it.

on my model:
you have 105 rage, you use any attack but HS or cleave and they cost exactly the same and have the same results, IE no bonus, you just get to use some rage you would have otherwise lost.
If you choose to use HS, you get 2.5% extra damage and it costs you 35 rage total to do it.

The difference is, every second you try to horde rage, you lose some, 10% of everything above 100 (call it minimum 1 rage) so hording is really no easier.

at the end of the above examples: you have 69 rage and did 10% bonus damage. I have 70 rage and did 2.5% bonus damage.

Now lets look at non-HS/cleave at 110 rage.
you use devastate, 15 rage becomes 21, and you get 20% bonus damage.
I use devastate, 51 rage stays the same, no damage bonus.

you end at 89 rage and do 20%
I end at 94-95 and do 0%

Yes, i can "keep" more rage, but thats all i am doing. and thats the whole point, that we not throw away a burst of rage gained.
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83 Human Warrior
7675
Apart from all the theorycrafting we have a couple of beta testers suggesting they intend to not even train the talent and they give good reason.
Why the heck is this even going live then?
Perhaps IR just slipped through the crack before release and it will get adjusted into something useful later when they can afford the dev time.

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85 Draenei Warrior
9495
It didnt slip, its just that far down on the list.

frankly they just did too many things at once to try and solve fury warriors and rage.
but, i keep reminding myself... this isnt wow. its wow 4.0. its a new game, its similar, but its got new rules.

I remind myself to stop thinking in terms of what was "fixed" and instead think in terms of "whats not done".

Hey Sony, when is the patch for the patch?
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I think the hostility toward Inner Rage stems from a few factors:


  • You might not want another button to push.

  • You might not trust the numbers, the cost or damage of the ability.



I'm firmly in the "don't want another button to push" camp. My action bars are already crowded, and I'm not happy that Blizzard is asking me to squeeze four new abilities onto my bars. (The four are: Rend, Victory Rush, Inner Rage, Heroic Leap). What's worse, these are all combat abilities that need to be hit quickly, they can't be dumped in a remote spot like the Vigilance button or your non-combat pet button.

I understand distrust of the numbers, because the numbers have gone back and forth and the current value seem both arbitrary and punishing. 50% increased cost for 15% increased damage feels arbitrary - why 50 and 15? We've spent years evaluating our class as damage per rage, anything that shifts the damage per rage ratio grabs our attention hard. I look at the current ratio and my gut reaction is: "If I activate Inner Rage, I am punished and I do less damage per rage."

I can think harder and try to rationalize "...maybe I want inner rage if I'm gaining rage faster than I can spend it?", but the gut instinct of evaluating abilities as damage per rage is very strong.


I wish Blizzard offered an inner rage that had equal rage and damage percentages. I think Inner Rage would have been a lot more appealing if it was "30% increased cost and 30% increased damage", or some other balance that left our rage/damage ratio untouched.
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85 Troll Death Knight
8085
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg6SEjMto9s

That should be the Avatar graphic.

WHAT HAVE I DONE
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85 Gnome Warrior
11375
How I plan to use it, macro it into Revenge

/cast Inner Rage
/cast Revenge

And have /cancelaura Inner Rage on pretty much everything else.

This feels like the best way to use it to me, automated and simple.

This is without playing beta, just assuming our rage stays roughly the same as it is now.
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85 Night Elf Warrior
7635
Turn IR into an offensive/defensive (gasp!) cooldown. It's been suggested before.

Or, yknow, give us the Mountain King ultimate ability, Avatar.


I like this idea a lot, especially since I have fond memories of Muradin in WC3...but I know Blizzard will never let us have an ability like it. Most classes seem to have a penultimate ability to use in certain situations but I've never felt that Blizzard (or other people on the forums) sees Warriors that way. We're more of a blue collar, utilitarian, tool-boxy class. At any rate, at least we still have Charge, Intercept and Intervene to make us feel special.
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85 Night Elf Warrior
11770
I haven't been on the beta in a month or so, so I'm not sure which version of IR is currently active.

But this version is on wowhead: http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=92974

Inner Rage Control Passive (DND) Passive

Whenever you achieve maximum Rage you enter a frenzied state, increasing damage caused by all abilities by 50% and increasing Rage cost by 50%. This effect is immediately cancelled when your Rage total drops below 76


This seems perfect to me, it gets rid of the issue of losing all of your rage when you might want to save it and doesn't require another button to push.
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90 Tauren Warrior
10125
Turn IR into an offensive/defensive (gasp!) cooldown. It's been suggested before.

Or, yknow, give us the Mountain King ultimate ability, Avatar.


I like this idea a lot, especially since I have fond memories of Muradin in WC3...but I know Blizzard will never let us have an ability like it. Most classes seem to have a penultimate ability to use in certain situations but I've never felt that Blizzard (or other people on the forums) sees Warriors that way. We're more of a blue collar, utilitarian, tool-boxy class. At any rate, at least we still have Charge, Intercept and Intervene to make us feel special.


Druids have charge and intercept with their new "Charge to interrupt", and in place of intervene they have stampeding roar, snare breaking form changing, and catform+sprint.

Toolbox is looking more and more Tim Allen compared to Bob Vila :P
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85 Tauren Warrior
10510
IR is actually fairly used move for me. I often find myself swimming in rage on pulls and it's free damage and threat for 15s with no further input from me.
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85 Draenei Warrior
9495
IR is actually fairly used move for me. I often find myself swimming in rage on pulls and it's free damage and threat for 15s with no further input from me.

then the entire rage redesign is a failure.


1. we should never be swimming in rage.
2. IR should be something that occasionally happens and makes up for spikey rage, but doesnt really cause a great benefit because its only supposed to make up for occasional rage spikes.
3. we are right back to wrath, thus what a waste of time.
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85 Tauren Warrior
10510
IR is actually fairly used move for me. I often find myself swimming in rage on pulls and it's free damage and threat for 15s with no further input from me.

then the entire rage redesign is a failure.


1. we should never be swimming in rage.
2. IR should be something that occasionally happens and makes up for spikey rage, but doesnt really cause a great benefit because its only supposed to make up for occasional rage spikes.
3. we are right back to wrath, thus what a waste of time.


Allow me to clarify a bit since I typed that when I was tired and don't think I made the point I was trying to make.

In 5 mans Inner rage will happen if you are brave enough to pull enough. You can't do it at ALL times, but you do get the opportunity for it to occur. Bosses can put out a lot of damage on tanks, even in 5 mans, that you will see yourself hop up to 100 rage and sit there a bit. This is inner rage time, then when damage goes back down you don't use it.

TL;DR it's not up 100% but I can run inner rage around 50% unless I'm being super-careful on pulls.

It does do what it is intended to do. The best thing they did was make it an active ability.
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83 Human Warrior
7675
IR is actually fairly used move for me. I often find myself swimming in rage on pulls and it's free damage and threat for 15s with no further input from me.

then the entire rage redesign is a failure.


1. we should never be swimming in rage.
2. IR should be something that occasionally happens and makes up for spikey rage, but doesnt really cause a great benefit because its only supposed to make up for occasional rage spikes.
3. we are right back to wrath, thus what a waste of time.


Allow me to clarify a bit since I typed that when I was tired and don't think I made the point I was trying to make.

In 5 mans Inner rage will happen if you are brave enough to pull enough. You can't do it at ALL times, but you do get the opportunity for it to occur. Bosses can put out a lot of damage on tanks, even in 5 mans, that you will see yourself hop up to 100 rage and sit there a bit. This is inner rage time, then when damage goes back down you don't use it.

TL;DR it's not up 100% but I can run inner rage around 50% unless I'm being super-careful on pulls.

It does do what it is intended to do. The best thing they did was make it an active ability.

Well thats at least encouraging Gal and I can see how that works
I guess its just even more mico management ontop of micro management for prot warrs then!
At this rate, watching the raid is pretty intense with our focus always on all our reactive stuff and debuff timers etc.
We are a seriously manual tank class to play compared to other "automatic" classes that can more easily focus on the raid and timers and positioning.
Flavor of course but I do wonder if prot warriors are getting to the point where more to watch is just too much!



Edited by Minaba on 11/19/2010 1:18 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
10380
I'm firmly in the "don't want another button to push" camp.


We lost abilities too. You also can remove any hotkeys for stance switching since we'll never be doing that.

I have zero problems with more abilities. I just want abilities that have some sort of purpose. Getting another gap closer when we already have enough of those or getting an aggro tool when we won't need it. Let's face it, if you have enough rage to be using IR, you shouldn't be having any problems with threat.

Rage being capped at 100 is not the problem. It could be capped at 5000 and not matter. The balance is between the rage cost of the abilities compared to the total rage pool.

If they want something to utilize excess rage, then they could either translate it into more damage through making haste rating more influential for dps warriors or they could built more rage dumps directly into the dps warrior side. It seems like IR would be more or less a DPS only ability. I'm not saying that because it's a damage increasing ability, because those are very useful for tanks ... Pally wings anyone? But what makes those nice is that you can use them when you need it and not when you don't need it.

Edit: If they want Rage to have more of an effect or use at higher rage amounts ... They could put in specific abilities that can only be used at high rage. Most of the problems that we have with IR is that it uses up so much rage constantly that it is a problem. If you have an ability (WITH a cooldown) that can only be used at 80+ rage that doesn't have some huge rage cost, then you can manage whether you want to keep your rage higher to allow for using this ability or if you want to utilize your other abilities and use rage more freely.
Edited by Duese on 11/19/2010 3:44 PM PST
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90 Orc Warrior
15875
Prot warriors got heroic leap. Inner rage isn't used by prot in its current form. I have never been in a heroic or raid situation where I needed it. Ironically, I have never needed heroic leap either. Its not a big deal, prot just didn't get any new abilities this expansion.
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85 Troll Warrior
BLT
7550
Prot warriors got heroic leap. Inner rage isn't used by prot in its current form. I have never been in a heroic or raid situation where I needed it. Ironically, I have never needed heroic leap either. Its not a big deal, prot just didn't get any new abilities this expansion.


It's awesome isn't it?
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85 Human Warrior
9255
IR is a turd that blizzard has been diligently polishing for the last few months hoping that it would begin to shine. What they don't seem to realize that no amount of polishing will change the fact it is still a turd.

IR was originally developed as a solution to the problem of well geared warriors getting rage capped. unfortunately rage normalization and changing heroic strike to an attack on its own GCD removed that problem. Therefore now IR is a band-aid fix to a problem that no longer exists and therefore it serves no discernible purpose. They need to scarp IR and give warriors a proper ability as currently two of our three new abilities are uselss and the third one (CS) is at a high risk of getting nerfed soon due to the amount of QQ on the beta forums.


This ^

It's also promoting the "Pool my rage and dump it on you" in PvP
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