PvE Holy Paladin 4.0.3a Theorycrafting

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6 Troll Shaman
0
EDIT: 12/13/2010
OUTDATED, PLEASE GO TO http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1406258637


EDIT 12/6/2010
My last raid for WotLK is done. I'll be around on this thread ready to answer questions, but until I hit level 85 and am ready for Cataclysm raiding, I won't be putting the same level of analysis into holy paladin theorycrafting. I doubt I'm going to even level holy, and I'm not going to do analysis based on speculation.

So go enjoy Cataclysm. Play around, make mistakes. And use some common sense ok? :)

-------

EDIT: Updated for 4.0.3a. Notably, there's a section on WoG vs. LoD and the spec changed a little bit.

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I'm mostly transcribing and editing a lot of the work I did on the old forums to the new ones. Mostly because I'm sad to see all of this work go to waste, though much of it is anyways once Cataclysm hits :(

Much of my work is taken from Wowwiki and other sources. I'll do my best to give credit where I can if I took work from specific people.

If you take anything from this guide, PLEASE read the section on Spell Selection, it's arguably the most important aspect to playing a holy paladin.

Also, after 4.0.1 was released, a hotfix was applied that made paladin single target healing stronger. That's what I'm talking about when I say hotfix.

Old link is here:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=27303224012&sid=1&pageNo=1

TABLE OF CONTENTS
-----------------------------------
  • General Mechanics - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1069856977?page=1#2
    • Spell Power

    • Cast Time

    • Mana Regen

  • Spell Information - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1069856977?page=1#3
    • Spell Table

    • HPS/HPM Table

  • Spell Selection - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1069856977?page=1#4
    • General

    • Tower of Radiance "Rotation"

    • Why you should understand it, but never use it.

    • Flash of Light vs. Divine Light

    • Word of Glory vs. Light of Dawn

  • Stats - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1069856977#5
    • How to Gear/Gem/Reforge

    • Int

    • Spirit

    • Haste

    • Crit

    • Mastery

  • Spec/Glyphs - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1069856977#6
    • Spec

    • Prime Glyphs

    • Major Glyphs

    • Minor Glyphs

  • Miscellaneous - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1069856977#7

    • Addons

    • Valithria Dreamwalker



Acronyms
DL - Divine Light
EG - Eternal Glory
FoL - Flash of Light
HL - Holy Light
HP - Holy Power
HS - Holy Shock
hpm - Heals per mana
hps - Heals per second
IoL - Infusion of Light
LoD - Light of Dawn
mp5 - Mana per 5 seconds
mps - mana per second
SoL - Speed of Light
ToR - Tower of Radiance
WoG - Word of Glory

Credits
Faelyne - for information regarding spirit regen and updated spell ranges and SP Coefficients and LoD vs. WoG discussion.
Dubalicious - for editing help
Edited by Lylthe on 12/13/2010 1:15 PM PST
6 Troll Shaman
0
GENERAL MECHANICS

Spell Power

As of now Blizzard tooltips are inaccurate. They seem to scale with spell power and % healing bonuses, but the numbers are wrong. To the best of my knowledge, healing works as follows:

Final Heal = Coefficient1 * Coeff2 * .... Coeff n * ( Base Power + SP Coefficient * Spell Power)

Coefficients 1 through n are the individual % healing bonuses. These stack multiplicitively. For example, a 5% bonus healing from the Glyph of Seal of Insight would give a 1.05 coefficient. 15% from Walk in light would give a 1.15 Coefficient.

The only weird part for the coefficients is that some may stack additively. As I understand it, the only place this may apply is the Glyph of Word of Glory and Last Word. In this case, there is either a 70% increase to healing, or 76% increase. Honestly, I doubt I'm going to find the time and energy to play test this.

Base Power is the random range that a heal may have. This is the primary source of variation in your heals. It's why you sometimes see a 10k non-crit heal vs. a 10.6k non-crit heal.

SP Coefficient is the spell power coefficient of a spell. The idea behind it was so a 1.0 sec cast heal doesn't catch up to a 2.5 sec cast heal as your gear increases, because the 2.5 sec cast will have a high SP Coefficient. The actual number is fixed by Blizzard and doesn't directly correlate to cast times, but that was the idea anyways. Note that the SP Coefficient is CONSTANT relative to haste.

Spell Power is the number from your paper doll in game.

So as an example, your final healing would look like:
Divine Light Final Heal = 1.05 (Seal of Insight Glyph) * 1.15 (Walk in Light) * 1.09 (Conviction) * [ 10652 Avg Base Heal + 1.099 * Spell Power)
I might have missed some buffs, but the basic mechanic is there. If you're in ICC, multiply the final number by 1.30.

Cast Time and the Global Cooldown

Cast Time = (Base Cast Time - Direct Cast Time reduction) / [ Haste Source 1 * Haste Source 2 * ... * Haste Source N * Haste Rating ]

First, 100% haste does NOT mean everything is instant cast. It means you cast 100% more spells, or your cast time is cut in half. That's why we divide.

Direct Cast Time reductions are any sources that reduce the cast time of a spell in seconds, not %. The only sources that apply to this that I can think of off the top of my head are Clarity of Purpose and 4PT10. Because this applies first, I sort of cheat and say Divine Light and Holy Light have a 2.5 sec cast instead of 3 sec - 1.5 sec to do Clarity of Purpose for brevity.

Haste sources stack multiplicatively. If you have 5% haste from raid buffs, use 1.05 in the formula. (Un)foruntately, there are only 3 sources of haste that matter to us. 5% from raid buffs (shaman, balance druid, shadow priest, destro warlock), 3% from Speed of Light and 9% from judgements of the pure. At level 80, 32.79 haste rating means 1% haste.

So as an example, at 894 Haste Rating, for Divine Light, the cast time is:
(3 - 0.5 (Clarity of Purpose)) / [1.05 (Raid Buff) * 1.09 (Judgements of the Pure) * 1.03 (Speed of Light) * (1 + 894/3279 Haste Rating) ] = 1.666 seconds

The Global Cooldown is the time you must wait between using abilities. This puts a minimum "cast time" on all spells, even instants. It's base time is 1.5 seconds and can be reduced to a maximum of 1.0 seconds for spells with haste. To bring the GCD to 1.0 seconds, you need 894 haste.


Mana Regen
The 5-second rule is gone. If you don't know what I'm talking about, don't worry about it.

Credit to Faelyne for updated formulas.

The numbers on your paper doll are accurate. In combat regen due to spirit is 1/2 as effective as out of combat regen because of our mastery (it's 0 without it). Also, please remember that all numbers are in Mana Per FIVE SECONDS, not mana per sec. I'll try to be consistent and stick with mp5.

Your total regen is 5% of your base mana + the regen due to spirit. 5% of your base mana is active all the time, even in combat. Base mana is 23422 at level 85, and 4394 at 80.

SpiritMp5ooc = 5 * (0.001 + Spirit * Sqrt(Intellect) * 0.003345) or:
SpiritMp5ooc = 0.005 + 0.016725 * Spirit * Sqrt(Intellect)
SpiritMp5ic = 0.0025 + 0.0083625 * Spirit * Sqrt(Intellect)

Add 219.7 mp5 for 5% base regen @ lvl 80 for total regen as seen on the paper doll.

Partial derivatives for in combat regen
dmp5/dspirit = 0.008363*sqrt(int)
dmp5/dint = 0.5*0.008363*Spirit / sqrt(int)

The partial derivatives are useful for determining the relative value of spirit and int. Notably, that in ICC quality gear, 1 spirit will approximately equal 0.4 mp5 in combat.
Edited by Lylthe on 11/30/2010 12:40 PM PST
6 Troll Shaman
0
SPELL INFORMATION
EDIT: Unfortunately, Blizzard took away preformatted text, so I need to go back to make this stuff readable :(

This is sadly a table that will become useless come cata. All numbers are at level 80.

Word of Glory is on a per holy power basis. So if you're at 3 HP, multiple all the numbers by 3. Base Power is average. I don't have the numbers for LoD and HS. I unfortunately can't use some of my other data, because I didn't normalize for Conviction.

Credit to Faelyn for SP numbers:
FoL
1186 Mana
6193-6947
~0.863 Coef.

HL
395 Mana
3732-4156
~0.432 Coef.

DL
1318 Mana
9951-11085
~1.153 Coef.

HS
351 Mana
2357-2553
~0.269 Coef.

WoG per HP
1809-2015
~0.209 Coef.

LoD per HP
905-1007
~0.220 Coef.

Below are projected ICC numbers for Lylthe and my gear. I stood in front of a dummy and healed myself and collected at least 50 non-crit heals to average.

Unfortunately, these numbers aren't great because I wasn't watching conviction. However, the relative HPS and HPM values are valuable for spell selection. These numbers were also taken at a 1.0 sec GCD. Instants used the GCD as the cast time. Haste will scale equally with all spells and so should SP (at least in theory). All numbers were taken as non-crit.

All specific numbers are for Lylthe, unbuffed, outside of ICC. See spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0BxYqR2TzgIgaODFkNDM2NmItNzVlMS00YzBkLWI0NjMtZWQxNzY4NjMxYTM0&sort=name&layout=list&num=50

HPS (Highest -> Lowest)
FoL - 12657
DL - 11731
3HP WoG - 11509
3HP LoD (per person) - 6841
HS - 5825
HL - 4398

HPM - (Highest->Lowest)
WoG - infinite
LoD - infinite
HL - 18.2
HS - 16.6
DL - 14.6
FoL - 10.7
Edited by Lylthe on 11/30/2010 12:37 PM PST
6 Troll Shaman
0
SPELL SELECTION

READ THIS SECTION. Proper spell selection is the most important aspect of Holy Paladin healing! Gear/Spec/Gemming/etc. is MUCH less important.

Turn on friendly face plates. You need them to use Light of Dawn.

General
I summarize paladin healing with 3 rules:
1) Don't be too stingy with your mana.
2) Only heal what you need to.
3) Use your full toolkit.

Most of this stuff is common sense, but it bears mentioning.

Use your CD's appropriately. Find lulls in the fight to Divine Plea. Use your Hand of <Whatever> as needed and don't be too stingy with Lay on Hands.

Judge as much as you can for mana, but don't let anyone die.

Tower of Radiance "Rotation"
The default healing "rotation" is the Tower of Radiance rotation.

The basic idea behind the ToR rotation is that put the beacon on tank, then build HP as quickly and efficiently as possibly. The basic rotation is to Shock->Filler until HS available. Break the rotation to dump 3HP WoG. Make sure you consume IoL before you shock again, even if daybreak is available.

Filler is WoG/LoD and your default 3 spells, DL, HL, and FoL. In general, it will be DL. HS and WoG always go to off beaconed targets. DL, HL and FoL always go onto the beaconed target.

The ToR rotation is the reason isn't the king it used to be. To maximize the utility of haste, haste will adjust the cast times to perfectly align with the 6 sec CD on HS. So to maximize the utility of GCD capping 894 haste under ToR cycles, you will use GCD capped ability ONLY so you can get 6 casts between the CD. This also creates many haste plateaus. There are enough permutations that I really don't want to examine the full range of haste from 0->894 .
Why you should understand it, but never use it.
ToR rotations are the "ideal" situation. Damage however, doesn't line up nicely with ToR.

The first problem with ToR cycles is guaranteeing that HS and WoG go to non-beaconed targets and HL, DL, and FoL go to beacons. That's unrealistic and it also makes Holy Power gains unpredictable so there are not set cycles. Another thing: HS strictly on CD is dumb. Using absolutely every GCD is dumb. You will find times where it's perfectly acceptable to do NOTHING for 1 second, maybe 2, maybe even 5. That's fine. Not casting the BEST way to save mana and it ruins the ToR rotation. If you don't need to heal, don't.

Match your heals to the appropriate incoming damage. If incoming damage = 0, do nothing. If it's light, use Holy Light. If it's moderate/heavy, use Divine Light. If it's ZOMFG SOMEONE'S GOING TO DIE, use Flash of Light.

Likewise, using WoG strictly at 3 HP isn't the right thing to do either. Sometimes 1 HP WoG is enough to top somebody off. If it is, then use 1 HP WoG. In WotLK content, I've found 2HP WoG to be the best time to use it, since that lines up best with incoming damage. In general, the more times you can cast WoG to its full effect, the more mana you will save.

Related to doing nothing is stop casts. You really need to watch incoming heals see a big heal incoming to a DPS, you can probably ignore him. If you start a DL on a DPS and suddenly they get filled by a heal sniper, stop your cast and save your mana. The applies to a lesser extent with to the tank, but the tank should have a steady stream of incoming heals, if not from you, from somebody else.

So should you try to obey ToR rotations? Yes. Will you? No.

The ToR rotation only gives guidelines, adjust as needed. If no one's taking damage and HS is off CD, it's perfectly ok to sit on your thumbs for a while. No need to shock for the sake of shocking. Likewise, if the tank is getting beat on by an enraged mob, dump your mana pool and start spamming FoL.

Knowing which heals to use, and when to use or not use them is your most important skill as a healer.

FoL vs. DL
FoL has the greatest HPS and worst HPM. DL has slightly worse HPS and better HPM. This might be counter intuitive, but it is true. See above. HL is just too weak w/o IoL. The breakpoint is around 60% haste, at which point DL has better HPS. This will only occur under bloodlust or other temporary haste buffs.

WoG vs. LoD
In general, if there's a single target, use Word of Glory. If there's more than one target that needs heals, use Light of Dawn. Below 35%, you generally want to use Word of Glory, but use your common sense. If one person is low and about to die, use Word of Glory. If multiple people are low, use Light of Dawn then use FoL to catch up.

The only weird thing is that beacon transfers each individual heal. So, LoD can act as a tank cooldown if you can hit at least 5 people with LoD. This is basically a free DL on the tank. There are 2 "problems" with this however. First, you can't always position the raid to support this. Second (a lesser problem), is that mastery won't stack up. You'll only get the shield from the largest individual transfer.
Edited by Lylthe on 11/30/2010 2:13 PM PST
6 Troll Shaman
0
STATS
How to Gear/Gem/Reforge
Credit to Adt: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=27189097759&sid=1&pageNo=1
Priority 1: INT
Priority 2: Get to a comfortable/preferred level of Combat Regen via SPIRIT
Priority 3: Get to a comfortable/preferred level of HASTE
Priority 4: CRIT
Priority 5: MASTERY

Int however, isn't so ridiculously awesome that we can ignore the other stats. With that in mind, I recommend gemming orange (int/haste) and purple (int/spirit) hybrids to get socket bonuses.

Reforging, I'd take take the crit off to get spirit or haste. Follow the above guidelines.

Raid buffed, make sure you still have around 30% crit however. That will keep conviction from falling off.

Don't go too far above 894 Haste. 894 Haste will GCD softcap and only help DL, which heals pretty well as is.

Int
1 Intellect from gear = 1.1025 "Final" Intellect due to armor mastery and Blessing of Kings
1 "final" intellect = 1 SP, 15 Mana, ~0.75 combat mp5 due to replenishment, ~0.09 combat mp5 due to spirit

Spirit
@ lvl80 with ICC gear, 1 Spirit ~= 0.4 in combat mp5. See the section above for combat regen.

Haste
Haste
32.79 Haste = 1% haste at lvl 80
1% haste means you cast 1% MORE, does not reduce cast time by 1%

Important stat, but behind spirit on priority. Don't go beyond 894 Haste, since that's the GCD soft cap. It's a nice goal to aim for, but not priority #1. Try to keep at least 600 haste. This will put you at a 2 sec DL, which is approximately what LK's swing timer is at.

Crit
45.91 Crit Rating = 1% Crit

This is still a bad stat. Crit still = overheal. You unfortunately, can't get away from it because pretty much all plate gear is crit/haste or crit/spirit. Reforge the crit into haste or spirit and you should still have enough to keep conviction rolling.

Some people really have a hard on for crit, so I figure I should do the math to discuss how much and how useful it is.

What does crit do?
1) Procs Infusion of Light
2) 50% bonus heal on crit
3) Keeps Conviction up

I consider 1 a nice perk, but not something I'm going to gear for. I consider 2 to be overheal and useless. Now how much do you need for #3?

Let's consider a scenario with 8 casts in 15 seconds. This assumes a 5 Divine Lights @ 2 second cast times, 3 instants (2HS+WoG) and about 1 second of leeway. The actual crit rating you need will be lower because you might get in melee attacks, which continue as you instant, you'll probably cast more than 8 times, and HS has a bonus 15% crit chance.

Unless we have 100% crit, there will ALWAYS be a finite chance that conviction falls off, so we can only shoot for the probability that it stays up. So, let's say we want a 99% probability that conviction remains up.

To make the math easy we'll discuss the probability that conviction will fall off. This is the same as the probability that we never get a crit. So we'll consider upper thresholds of 1% and 5% that conviction falls off.

The general formula is:
(Not counting HS bonus crit because that's an 8th order polynomial I don't want to solve)
Upper Threshold > (1 - Normal Crit Chance)^8
Crit Chance < 1- (Upper Threshold)^(1/8)

Unbuffed I have 2442 intellect. Raid buffed and in lesser gear you should be close. That provides 14.6% crit. Paladins have a base crit of 3.3% crit. You should have 5% crit from raid buffs.

For a 1% chance to fall off, we would need 43.76% total crit. That means 20.87% crit from crit rating or 957.95 crit rating. That's a lot of crit.

What if we were happy with 5% chance to fall off? (I'm okay with this.) Now we only need 382.6 crit rating to keep conviction up. So clearly, for conviction uptime, there are very significant diminishing returns for crit rating.

So what was the opportunity cost?
To get from 5% failure->1% failure, we needed 575.35 crit rating or 12.53% crit.

The opportunity cost would have been 573.35 haste or spirit.
573.35 Haste rating = 17.49% haste

573.35 Spirit ~= 246.5 in combat mp5.

I'll take my haste or spirit, but here's the math if you REALLY want your crit for whatever reason.

Mastery
Not a very good stat. This is mainly because the duration is too short to be helpful when raid healing (except aura based fights) and on tank heals, especially with preemptive healing and current avoidance, you will heal the tank between boss attack swings, so one of the shields is wasted. See
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1069856977?page=3#57
Edited by Lylthe on 11/30/2010 5:26 PM PST
6 Troll Shaman
0
SPEC/GLYPHS
Spec
Recommended Spec: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sMIbzrkuufzbZc:aVcfasMzc

For the sake of brevity, I'm going to only discuss the talents we're skipping or have choices to make.

Protector of the Innocent. You only need 2/3 for PvE raiding to progress down the tree.

Arbiter of the Light. DPS talent, skip.

Blazing Light. DPS talent, skip.

Denounce. DPS talent, skip.

Enlightened Judgements. Your first real choice. The range and hit aren't really necessary, but it makes judging a lot easier. I'd recommend taking 1/2.

Paragon of Virtue. You don't have to have this. The CD reduction is nice, but if you're not using the CD, it's useless. I recommend taking this though.

Blessed Life. PvP talent, skip. For what does and does not proc see:
See http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t102488-way_light_holy_cataclysm/p11/#post1778086

Divinity vs. Crusade vs. Eternal Glory.
Crusade is basically a mandatory talent now. The reliable HP generation from HS means we almost need to use it on CD, but we need Crusade to make it a viable heal.

That leaves the question between Eternal Glory and Divinity.

Don't think of Eternal Glory as bonus healing. Think of Eternal Glory as mana "regen". I recommend 2/2 for this. If you're hoping for an EG proc to heal, you're using it incorrectly. If however, you use WoG, EG procs, and you need a DL level heal, then you saved yourself 1k mana. If you're thinking, "ZOMFG SOMEONE'S GOING TO DIE!" then use FoL and ignore EG.

Divinity is a flat 4% healing bonus. I honestly haven't mathed out the difference, but I believe Divinity is the better talent. We use LoD quite a bit at the expense of WoG. You will use WoG, but I don't believe we use it enough to warrant EG. If you DO find yourself using WoG, then EG is still a good talent.

Prime Glyphs
Holy Shock
Word of Glory
Divine Favor

Pick 2. Seal of Insight is mandatory

Major Glyphs
Divine Plea
Light of Dawn
Divinity
Lay on Hands
Pick 3

Come Cataclysm, if there's a cleanse heavy fight (none really in WotLK), throw in Cleanse.

Minor Glyphs
Kings
Might
Insight
Edited by Lylthe on 11/30/2010 12:51 PM PST
6 Troll Shaman
0
MISCELLANEOUS
Addons
I normally shy away from discussing addons because my setup won't work for you, and your setup won't work for me. However, there are some general guidelines you want to follow.

You want a healing addon. There are 3 really popular options right now:
- Healbot. I use this one, but don't take that to mean you need to as well.
- Grid with Clique. This is technically 2 addons. Grid is the raid frame. Clique allows for click casts. You may need a libhealcomm for incoming heals, but I don't know for sure.
- Vuhdo. I've tried it, and it's very powerful. I'm too used to healbot to make it worth switching though.

You want a Raid Mechanic addon. I know of 2, though there are more:
- Deadly Boss Mods
- Big Wigs

The following addons are not required, but highly recommended. I'll break them by function and list the ones I know of or use.
Threat Addons
- Omen Threat Meter. More important to tanks and DPS, but helps you with Hand of Salv.
- Tidy Plates + Tidy Threat Plates. Lets you see what you aggroed and what isn't very quickly. Again, more important to tanks and DPS.

Buff/Timer Trackers
- Power Auras - Very customizable alerts. Tells me to when HS is off CD, any procs I have etc. Somewhat complicated to setup.
- IceHUD - Displays your health, mana, and holy power bar in a more visible manner and anywhere you want. Does other fancy things, but I only use it to track Holy Power.

Meter. Don't look at these mid fight, and don't epeen with them. But do use them as debugging tools.
- Recount
- Skada

Valithria Dreamwalker
This really isn't all that important, but VDW is a fight very near and dear to the hearts of holy paladins, and the good news is, looks like we're still the one of (if not the) best at it! I've "beaten" a shaman and druid so far, but I haven't pulled her that often since my focus has been on HMLK.

This is the important data we need to look at the relative HPS:
3HP LoD Beacon Transfer (4+ targets)
FoL
DL
3HP WoG

4.0.3a changed some things with LoD. So the salient point is, if you can hit 4+ people with LoD, it has the best HPS of these abilities. If you can hit 6+ people, it even beats DL under bloodlust.

Outside of LoD, since mana doesn't matter, we're going to pick the ability with the greatest raw HPS, in this case, the winner is Flash of Light. So spam Flash of Light on the dragon. Protector of the Innocent will keep you alive. Just remember to occasionally shock yourself on HM while in the dream.

Beacon the dragon for LoD transfers and HP generation.

Your strategy changes if you have Bloodlust active or Divine Illumination. Because FoL is GCD capped use Divine Light instead. I did the math, and if you take my word at it, the flip point is about 60% total haste. Basically, if you have ~5% haste from rating, use DL.

Math is here:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1069856977?page=2#22
Edited by Lylthe on 11/30/2010 12:57 PM PST
Glad your posting this here. I thought one of three of you would post eventually but was starting to get worried.

Also i always thought your version was the best, but Adt's was the most popular.

/shrug
85 Blood Elf Paladin
5465
Just a suggestion to everyone else, hitting "Like" next to Lylthe's posts is a good thing. And how do we request stickies on these forums? Anyone know?
85 Human Paladin
6435
Just a suggestion to everyone else, hitting "Like" next to Lylthe's posts is a good thing. And how do we request stickies on these forums? Anyone know?


With the current forum build you can't request stickies.
85 Human Priest
10900
Final Heal = Coefficient1 * Coeff2 * .... Coeff n * ( Base Power + SP Coefficient * Spell Power)

Coefficients 1 through n are the individual % healing bonuses. These stack multiplicitively. For example, a 5% bonus healing from the Glyph of Seal of Insight would give a 1.05 coefficient. 15% from Walk in light would give a 1.15 Coefficient.


Just a suggestion, but you absolutely have to be careful with healing modifiers such as these. Some modifiers do stack additively with others and the only way to ultimately be sure is to test them (Blizzard is not predictable when it comes to these things). I have no idea if paladin healing modifiers do though. If you're 100% sure which stacks in what way you can just disregard this though. :D If not then that's something you might want to nail down.

This is also my personal opinion but I think the explanation of how you determine the final heal could be simplified a bit. Your example formula could maybe look more like:

Healing: Final Heal = Modifiers * (Base Power + Spell Power * SP Coefficient)
Then have your following explanation of modifiers, or coefficients as you call them. I just think it looks a little confusing, maybe others don't. /shrug.

Lastly, I saw a couple [pre] tags in your post. This forum doesn't support them anymore (I will miss them a lot) so you'll have to cut those out of your post. I managed to work around not having preformatting tags by using "fake" spaces because normal spaces won't work. Alt + 0160 should produce them for you. Not as tidy as a table using preformatting tags but it works for me!

Other than that I like it, but I'm not the most experienced holy paladin so as far as your actual gameplay explanations are concerned maybe other people can offer suggestions or corrections.



Just a suggestion to everyone else, hitting "Like" next to Lylthe's posts is a good thing. And how do we request stickies on these forums? Anyone know?


With the current forum build you can't request stickies.


Actually what they said they want us to do is click dislike, go down to report, select other and tell the mods youd like this stickied. You can then go back and like it.

The mods get the sticky request and the post gets liked.
85 Human Paladin
6435
Just a suggestion to everyone else, hitting "Like" next to Lylthe's posts is a good thing. And how do we request stickies on these forums? Anyone know?


With the current forum build you can't request stickies.


Actually what they said they want us to do is click dislike, go down to report, select other and tell the mods youd like this stickied. You can then go back and like it.

The mods get the sticky request and the post gets liked.


Oooooo.
6 Troll Shaman
0
Thanks for the support guys!

Sheesh, I never thought copying and pasting would take so long :P I guess that's what I get for not organizing my stuff earlier.


Just a suggestion, but you absolutely have to be careful with healing modifiers such as these. Some modifiers do stack additively with others and the only way to ultimately be sure is to test them

True.

However, I'm 95% sure that paladins are lucky and don't have to worry about this. When I back derived the SP coefficients for DL, HL, and FoL, I found <1% error on a third set of data points. So multiplicative stacking seems to good there. WoG might be weird with it's glyph, to account for my 5% error, but I'm not sure where that would add.

HS might have issues because of Crusade, but I haven't checked that yet.

Lastly, I saw a couple [pre] tags in your post. This forum doesn't support them anymore (I will miss them a lot) so you'll have to cut those out of your post.

Yeah I noticed :(

Too much other stuff to put in, so I edited those last.
Edited by Lylthe on 11/18/2010 5:02 PM PST
100 Human Paladin
16110
To get from 5% failure->1% failure, we needed 575.35 crit rating or 12.53% crit.

The opportunity cost would have been 573.35 haste or spirit.
573.35 Haste rating = 17.49% haste

573.35 Spirit ~= 246.5 in combat mp5.


In reference to reforging, its important to account for the 50% loss to a stat if you're getting rating just from reforging. That translates to a very small amount of in-combat mp5 if you reforge crit into spirit. It might be worth haste, except that so much of our rotation is running around instant casts that its worth is subject to diminishing returns.

As far as mastery goes, I did the math. It only comes out competitive with crit (the next worst stat) a 88% applicable (direct, single-target) heals, and that's assuming 100% absorption of the mastery shields. That's not happening in Wrath currently and its sure as heck not going to come out to occur in Cataclysm.

I want to love our Mastery. I really do. The idea of getting mini-bubbles on people addresses a weak point we've always had, that is, no residual. However, its not only weak, its paper-tissue thin if-you-blow-your-nose-a-little-your-hands-are-covered-in-snot weak. I'd suggest keeping Mastery on your gear if and only if you 2heal 10 man raids with another holy paladin or you find yourself regularly engaged in moderate scale pvp where there's lots of people taking lots of pain in a short space.

In other words, any item budget with Mastery is actually a healing penalty to paladins. The stat is that bad. While I wouldn't recommend reforging out of crit (for the love of everything don't stack or gem it though), Mastery should be dropped like a hot rock. Even at 10%/ 1.25%-per-point its hopeless.
6 Troll Shaman
0

In reference to reforging, its important to account for the 50% loss to a stat if you're getting rating just from reforging.

They got rid of this. You can only convert 40%, but there's no budget loss. If you have 100 crit rating on something and reforge it into spirit, the end result is 60 crit, 40 spirit.

If you have ~30% crit raid buffed, you have enough to keep conviction rolling. The rest is useless.

As far as mastery goes, I did the math. It only comes out competitive with crit (the next worst stat) a 88% applicable (direct, single-target) heals, and that's assuming 100% absorption of the mastery shields. That's not happening in Wrath currently and its sure as heck not going to come out to occur in Cataclysm.

And yeah, mastery is bad. Actually, can I see that math?
Edited by Lylthe on 11/18/2010 5:00 PM PST
100 Human Paladin
16110
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AsHoLpgy5iX6dHBseEctY21EYWpNTWJiRlBaek9pUXc&authkey=CL34k8IN&hl=en#gid=0


Here you go, Lylthe. Afraid I haven't written a pretty wordy guide to it (waaay too much like work for me), but what you can see is a significant throughput gain for crit compared to mastery, largely due to its synergy with holy shock. I haven't re-evaluated the value of crit post-holy-shock-nerf (that I heard about today), but I would guess it will diminish further because the efficacy of crit in enhancing our throughput is almost entirely through that one spell. I still don't think I'd reforge out of it, but I have no idea (with that said) how much a person would wind up with. Like yourself, I figured to shoot for 30% base crit (a number that's been awfully stable since T5).
6 Troll Shaman
0
Thanks for the spreadsheet Tiraslin. Looks pretty good. I think I've figured out the basics, but I'm still poking around the sections for comparative purposes.

Where did you get the base ranges for spells? I can't find those numbers published anywhere and I had to back derive the averages using linear fits of test dummy data.

Similarly I don't believe that paladin SP coefficients obey the traditional (C/3.5)*1.88 formula. At least my in game testing doesn't support this. I'll try to find some time to retest this in game, but with Cataclysm and lvl 85 looming on the horizon, my motivation to do so is low :(

I really wish Blizzard would just publish these numbers to make theorycrafting actually theorycrafting and not back deriving.
Edited by Lylthe on 11/19/2010 12:20 PM PST
100 Dwarf Paladin
6745
Excellent work Lylthe! I enjoy the paladin class and have a decent handle on mechanics but it amazes me when folks like yourself work out the number crunching into a coherent and well-written post. Thanks so much! Reported for sticky.
100 Human Paladin
16110

Where did you get the base ranges for spells? I can't find those numbers published anywhere and I had to back derive the averages using linear fits of test dummy data.

I found them on wowhead and mmo-champion. Ultimately the relationships based on percentages will work whatever the base is, although where linear fits align will obviously change. This is a major reason I worked through a huge variety of spellpowers, because ultimately if you move the base, then what will happen is the effective heal lines will cross at lower spellpower, but equal numbers. I recognize this as a sore limitation of my calculations, and it made me hesitant to even share them. I'm used to having all my numbers checked by five colleagues before making them public, so this was a little scary!


Similarly I don't believe that paladin SP coefficients obey the traditional (C/3.5)*1.88 formula.

You may be correct about that, but I couldn't find any published references to say otherwise. I don't have the Beta (whyyyyyy! I wanted to do this theorycrafting months ago!), so I had to work off best available information.

I really wish Blizzard would just publish these numbers to make theorycrafting actually theorycrafting and not back deriving.
It would certainly help. There's certainly enough players with a background in math enough to wield a mean spreadsheet.

All the limitations aside, it makes sense that as designed right now, our Mastery is an exceptionally weak stat, despite the buffs. It should be addressing our residual problem in healing, but outside of PvP I just don't see it being very useful because of how fast the shields drop off and how small they are to start.
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