Outsider perspective

1 Blood Elf Warlock
0
Back story: I play a rogue and a feral at 80. The other two energy useing classes. Yes I know it's called focuse but everyone knows its just a recolored energy bar.

Now what I have noticed is the lack of regen of focus is a serious handicap. And after seeing a lot of beta video's (because I am not in beta, I do the next best research I can do watching beta videos) AotF doesn't solve this issue in endgame.

Now on to the point. I just got off my mid level hunter and wow is all I can say about the down time. In pve I feel like a mage used to after two kills they have to drink i.e. two mobs killed then steady shot, steady shot, steady shot, and finally enough focus to kill two more mobs. And its back to the little dps steady shot spam.

So after getting a feel for rotation and new talents its off to the bgs. Well it seems every class has learned about the focus problems of hunters and how every class is a hard counter to it. Almost all fights went the same way. They soak up my minor dps till my focus is out. Then they gap close and finish me off.

This brings me to the point and the major thing that keeps my other 80's that use energy in the fight is the ability to regen energy fast and through a few different ways. Some passive and some with active finishing moves. Now that hunters are forced onto this system I honestly feel they should be given faster focus regen and different ways to regen other then steady shot. Maybe add in a base line when hit in melee your regen x amount of focus but do this base line not just AotF. Or add in a finisher regen your killshot or killcommand regens x focus.
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3 Tauren Druid
0
Focus regeneration is not insufficient in PVE at all. Not now, and not when cata hits. You must have been misled by the videos or are unfamiliar with standard hunter playstyle. If anything we're going at a faster pace now than we were before and that will continue to be the case in cataclysm.
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80 Night Elf Druid
7965
Rogues and Ferals regen at 12/s. Hunters regen at 4/s. The original intent was to have it regen at 6/s. Casting Steady/Cobra Shot increases regen to 9/s. So even under a "regen" mode, Hunters still can't regen Focus at the rate that Rogues and Ferals regen Energy. Couple this with the fact that Rogues and Ferals have quite a few more tools to aid them in resource regeneration and you can easily see why Hunters feel sluggish with Focus regen.

I'd like to see base Focus regen bumped up to 8-9/s and casting Steady/Cobra Shot giving a 2-3 second buff that increases Focus regen rate to 12/s.
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3 Tauren Druid
0
Rogues and Ferals regen at 12/s. Hunters regen at 4/s. The original intent was to have it regen at 6/s. Casting Steady/Cobra Shot increases regen to 9/s. So even under a "regen" mode, Hunters still can't regen Focus at the rate that Rogues and Ferals regen Energy. Couple this with the fact that Rogues and Ferals have quite a few more tools to aid them in resource regeneration and you can easily see why Hunters feel sluggish with Focus regen.

I'd like to see base Focus regen bumped up to 8-9/s and casting Steady/Cobra Shot giving a 2-3 second buff that increases Focus regen rate to 12/s.

This would be true, if hunter's actually felt sluggish in focus regen. If you increase the regen any further I will honestly not be able to get rid of it faster than I generate it under hero / rapid fire / speed pot / w/e else increases speed. I currently have no problems with the focus mechanics it regenerates at a rate which is consistent with our GCD and the new pace that we're playing at.
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85 Troll Hunter
3560
Back story: I play a rogue and a feral at 80. The other two energy useing classes. Yes I know it's called focuse but everyone knows its just a recolored energy bar.


This is odd. I don't see my combo points popping up on the enemy.

Someone halp please


Now what I have noticed is the lack of regen of focus is a serious handicap. And after seeing a lot of beta video's (because I am not in beta, I do the next best research I can do watching beta videos) AotF doesn't solve this issue in endgame.


Focus regen has been fine in PvE for me atm. You just have to pay attention now to your resource, instead of before when mana was a joke. Fox is supposed to be a pvp aspect, and used situationally in PvE.


Now on to the point. I just got off my mid level hunter and wow is all I can say about the down time. In pve I feel like a mage used to after two kills they have to drink i.e. two mobs killed then steady shot, steady shot, steady shot, and finally enough focus to kill two more mobs. And its back to the little dps steady shot spam.


So don't spam all your focus using abilities on the mob. Steady shot is supposed to be used in a rotation. You're not supposed to be able to go all willy nilly with your shots near-limitlessly.


So after getting a feel for rotation and new talents its off to the bgs. Well it seems every class has learned about the focus problems of hunters and how every class is a hard counter to it. Almost all fights went the same way. They soak up my minor dps till my focus is out. Then they gap close and finish me off.


I've heard our pvp is bad atm, but lol at lowbie pvp.


This brings me to the point and the major thing that keeps my other 80's that use energy in the fight is the ability to regen energy fast and through a few different ways. Some passive and some with active finishing moves. Now that hunters are forced onto this system I honestly feel they should be given faster focus regen and different ways to regen other then steady shot. Maybe add in a base line when hit in melee your regen x amount of focus but do this base line not just AotF. Or add in a finisher regen your killshot or killcommand regens x focus.


Regen has been fine for me in PvE. Steady shot is a good filler to use since you get the buff from casting it twice as MM. Use arcane shot to dump focus, save focus if chimera shot is coming up, and cast a free aimed shot when it procs. At least it's more fun then mana.
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85 Goblin Hunter
2925
This is why outsiders shouldn't offer their opinions on hunter abilities/focus/etc.
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85 Goblin Hunter
2925
I AM HERE TO TROLL BECAUSE I DONT HAVE A HUNTER. PHEER MY HOLY PALADIN.


I /cower in pheer
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83 Orc Hunter
3790
I don't understand the hostility here toward the OP. Personally I very much appreciate an outsider's view on the issues we're currently having in PvP.

I've heard our pvp is bad atm, but lol at lowbie pvp.

Seeing as 80's are right now "lowbies", given that every ability is calibrated for the upcoming level cap of 85, that sentiment is not helpful in any way. In fact, it's particularly detrimental to new players who want to enjoy the occasional battlegrounds as they level. There's a reason BGs are not restricted only to the cap.

This is why outsiders shouldn't offer their opinions on hunter abilities/focus/etc.

I disagree, in fact I think such "exclude the outsiders" attitudes do more harm than good. Just because someone leveled a different class to the cap before rolling a hunter, doesn't mean they can't offer observations and insights. I'd go so far as to say it's healthy to get an opinion from someone who's an "outsider".

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81 Draenei Hunter
8455
this would be true, if hunter's actually felt sluggish in focus regen. If you increase the regen any further I will honestly not be able to get rid of it faster than I generate it under hero / rapid fire / speed pot / w/e else increases speed. I currently have no problems with the focus mechanics it regenerates at a rate which is consistent with our GCD and the new pace that we're playing at.
Except it DOES feel sluggish. And Rogues/Ferals have the same issue with energy when under Heroism/etc., they just have more sinks for it.

And Rogues/Ferals have just as fast a GCD as we do. Basically what you're saying is that you have no idea what you're saying.
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85 Blood Elf Hunter
4640
This brings me to the point and the major thing that keeps my other 80's that use energy in the fight is the ability to regen energy fast and through a few different ways.


I've been saying that for a long time.

I don't exactly agree with the suggestions you give, but yes, it's silly that our combat mechanic is as it is, and we have no extra reliable sources to regenerate focus.

Rogue energy mechanic works so well because not only their regeneration is higher, but every single spec has a special way to increase their energy regen.

Combat does so by auto swinging.

Assassination does it by keeping Bleeds on the enemy.

Subtletly does it by keeping Recuperate always up.

They're not overly complicated, yet are functional, and they don't make the rogue necessarily go out of his way to keep this improved regeneration working. It also helps making the trees feel and play more differently - something hunters greatly lack.

Outside of cooldowns (Rapid Fire, Fervor), we have no way to boost our default Focus regen. Our only choice is steady/cobra, and that's a limiting, weak choice.
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3 Tauren Druid
0
this would be true, if hunter's actually felt sluggish in focus regen. If you increase the regen any further I will honestly not be able to get rid of it faster than I generate it under hero / rapid fire / speed pot / w/e else increases speed. I currently have no problems with the focus mechanics it regenerates at a rate which is consistent with our GCD and the new pace that we're playing at.
Except it DOES feel sluggish. And Rogues/Ferals have the same issue with energy when under Heroism/etc., they just have more sinks for it.

And Rogues/Ferals have just as fast a GCD as we do. Basically what you're saying is that you have no idea what you're saying.

Nope, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm saying. PVE focus is fine.
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1 Blood Elf Warlock
0
It's good to hear that some other people agree with me about the sluggish feeling to it.

But I guess we will all have to wait and see if it changes at 85 with haste and whatever else to help with regen.
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80 Night Elf Hunter
5300
In a PvE setting ... I'd have to agree with Fluffa. If you know what you're doing Focus regen is perfectly fine. SS is weak as #@#@ but when I do play I find I typically always have enough or more then enough focus to cast chimera as it comes up ... and can quickly store up forcus for any movement I may have to do. Hell under any haste affect I tend to spam AS more then anything because at that point I think it regens too fast, but I digress I haven't gotten much play time since the patch and I am still not completely used to the class yet.
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3 Night Elf Priest
0
I don't understand the hostility here toward the OP. Personally I very much appreciate an outsider's view on the issues we're currently having in PvP.

I've heard our pvp is bad atm, but lol at lowbie pvp.

Seeing as 80's are right now "lowbies", given that every ability is calibrated for the upcoming level cap of 85, that sentiment is not helpful in any way. In fact, it's particularly detrimental to new players who want to enjoy the occasional battlegrounds as they level. There's a reason BGs are not restricted only to the cap.

This is why outsiders shouldn't offer their opinions on hunter abilities/focus/etc.

I disagree, in fact I think such "exclude the outsiders" attitudes do more harm than good. Just because someone leveled a different class to the cap before rolling a hunter, doesn't mean they can't offer observations and insights. I'd go so far as to say it's healthy to get an opinion from someone who's an "outsider".


Yeh me neither.. It's not like he came here and bashed everyone, but it seems certain people take offense to everything around here. We are all hunters, some longer than others (me about 5 years) so let's all just get along. We aren't going to agree on everything but when do we ever?

Wanted to address this to the OP, the way I deal with an aspect of the fox hunter is kick his cobra/steady shots. The kick glyph puts it on a 4 sec CD for all intents and purpose. I haven't lost to a hunter yet on my rogue post 4.0 live, or beta. It's sad to see my favorite class treated so bad.
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3 Night Elf Priest
0
In a PvE setting ... I'd have to agree with Fluffa. If you know what you're doing Focus regen is perfectly fine. SS is weak as #@#@ but when I do play I find I typically always have enough or more then enough focus to cast chimera as it comes up ... and can quickly store up forcus for any movement I may have to do. Hell under any haste affect I tend to spam AS more then anything because at that point I think it regens too fast, but I digress I haven't gotten much play time since the patch and I am still not completely used to the class yet.


There is still a bit of focus issues with Survival in a PVE setting because it's a bit more complicated than MM. Nobody is playing MM at 85 right now. It's in need of a huge buff (it's behind by about 3-5kdps) But anyway, survival works on priority as to MM where you can keep a tight rotation. The problem with the priority system is sometimes when thinking a couple shots ahead you forget to put the cobra shot in there. Especially when your serpent sting is in good condition. It's something that will take a bit of time to get used to but it's pretty different from MM.
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80 Night Elf Hunter
5300
There is still a bit of focus issues with Survival in a PVE setting because it's a bit more complicated than MM. Nobody is playing MM at 85 right now. It's in need of a huge buff (it's behind by about 3-5kdps) But anyway, survival works on priority as to MM where you can keep a tight rotation. The problem with the priority system is sometimes when thinking a couple shots ahead you forget to put the cobra shot in there. Especially when your serpent sting is in good condition. It's something that will take a bit of time to get used to but it's pretty different from MM.


Good info to know I guess. Nothing against you, but I'll probably forget it in about 20 minutes. I've been a die hard MM since pre-BC. Once I turned 60 I was MM and I've been MM ever since. I was MM through BC and through LK even when MM wasn't the best spec. I'll probably stay MM through Cata even if I am the only lvl 85 MM hunter.
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90 Troll Hunter
9620
This would be true, if hunter's actually felt sluggish in focus regen. If you increase the regen any further I will honestly not be able to get rid of it faster than I generate it under hero / rapid fire / speed pot / w/e else increases speed. I currently have no problems with the focus mechanics it regenerates at a rate which is consistent with our GCD and the new pace that we're playing at.


If you're not getting rid of it faster than you're generating it right now, you're doing something wrong. As of right now, our theoretical maximum regeneration rate while not using steady shot is 8.08 focus/second. The formula is:

Focus Regen = Base Focus Regen + ((1 + Item Haste %) * (1 + Skill Haste %))

Base Focus Regen = 4.08 (according to the elitist jerks thread)

You're never going to see that 8.08 focus/second though. That assumes 100% gear haste and 100% skill haste. I don't know specifically what the itemization in Cataclysm is, but you can be rest assured that you're not going to see 100% gear haste. Let's assume you have 30% haste (through balanced and careful reforging of haste and mastery). When you're under the effects of Rapid Fire, your static regeneration rate is:

4.08 + ((1 + 0.3) * (1 + 0.4)) = 5.9 focus/second
While using steady (1.4s cast) = 5.9 + (5.9 * 0.4) + 9 = 12.328 focus/sec

Another example: 25% gear haste and Windfury up (10% haste):

4.08 + ((1 + 0.25) * (1 + 0.1)) = 5.45 focus/second
While using steady (1.5s cast) = 5.45 + (5.45 * 0.5) + 9 = 11.45 focus/sec

This is the math they're using and why it all looks good on paper. In practice, particularly at level 80, it doesn't work because there are always mitigating factors (movement, etc.) At 85 in raids I can see being in Aspect of the Fox quite a lot. In fact, enough that speccing into One with Nature might not actually be worth it. I'd have to look at the math on that though.

The base focus regen will definitely need some tuning as things move along.
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