Spriest Defensive Utility (PvP)

85 Undead Priest
4550
So I've decided to bring this spriest up as my main in cata, and wouldn't you know it, I just happen to have a suggestion that I think is freaking awesome. Craziness!!

Now, I know you other spriests out there probably have your own ideas on what spriests need or don't need - and maybe you're right - but I think this is a change we can ALL agree on.

I'm speaking, of course, about Phantasm, aka Improved Fade. What's wrong with it? Reliability. It doesn't have any.

Anything from a laggy rogue 15-yard autoswing to you just happening to be one pixel too close to a DK desecrate, and the cooldown (plus any talent points you put in it) are wasted. Even coordinated with some form on CC, you can't pop Fade and feel like you can depend on it to help you out. You end up just plain not liking the move.

Well here's something we can add to the talent that will patch this right up (no tears, even!): For the duration of fade, snares cannot reduce you below 100% run speed.


Reasons:

1 - Obviously, fade will always serve you to some degree when used wisely.
2 - It won't combine with the new disc buff (up to +16% run speed), which means that snares are not just easily thrown out (in case there are OP concerns).
3 - Shammy's ghost wolf ability is still unique in that the shaman can keep it us as long as they want. The fade buff's duration could even be reduced when speccing into the talent if deemed necessary.
4 - The effect is already in the game, so it'll be comparatively easy to implement.


TL;DR - Give imp. fade the same snare freedom that ghost wolf has for the duration of the fade buff. It would make our most unreliable PvP talent something we can work with.
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70 Human Priest
1170
Phantasm is fine, if a little over-budget. You shouldn't escape a rogue with it alone.
Edited by Eventually on 11/18/2010 5:26 PM PST
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85 Undead Priest
4550
In level 61 BG's, one can only hope.
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85 Night Elf Druid
0
In level 61 BG's, one can only hope.


Seems she ninja-edited you.
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85 Undead Priest
4550
In level 61 BG's, one can only hope.


Seems she ninja-edited you.


Yeah...

I'm willing to ignore the level 61 thing if he/she wants to tell me why the move shouldn't function without another form of CC, remembering that arenas and rated BG's are not based on 1v1's where one can easily coordinate fade with your own CC.
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85 Night Elf Druid
0
Yeah...

I'm willing to ignore the level 61 thing if he/she wants to tell me why the move shouldn't function without another form of CC, remembering that arenas and rated BG's are not based on 1v1's where one can easily coordinate fade with your own CC.


Presumably they want to keep you distinct from a Warlock. You get spammable dispels, they get spammable fear. You get 15% mitigation unless you need to heal, they get 20% mitigation unless their pet dies. Both specs generally have poor mobility.
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85 Undead Priest
4550
Yeah...

I'm willing to ignore the level 61 thing if he/she wants to tell me why the move shouldn't function without another form of CC, remembering that arenas and rated BG's are not based on 1v1's where one can easily coordinate fade with your own CC.


Presumably they want to keep you distinct from a Warlock. You get spammable dispels, they get spammable fear. You get 15% mitigation unless you need to heal, they get 20% mitigation unless their pet dies. Both specs generally have poor mobility.


I agree.

..but they did give us imp. fade. Now I just want it to work =D Or if we can't do that, replace the talent so that we aren't balanced as if we have a reliable way to use it.

It's my understanding that the lack of peels has been the big weakness (in arenas, at least) of the spriest. We'll keep that flaw with this change, but I believe in turn that we'll be more viable in the team compositions that can actually support a spriest.
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85 Human Warlock
5195
Even with the 15% mitigation SPriests still have some strong offensive/defensive cooldowns which already put them far ahead of Locks when it comes to surviving melee classes.

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85 Undead Priest
4550
Even with the 15% mitigation SPriests still have some strong offensive/defensive cooldowns which already put them far ahead of Locks when it comes to surviving melee classes.


The question is not, "Do spriests need more defensive utility". It's, "Should spriests have a defensive utility that seldom functions?".
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85 Human Warlock
5195
Even with the 15% mitigation SPriests still have some strong offensive/defensive cooldowns which already put them far ahead of Locks when it comes to surviving melee classes.


The question is not, "Do spriests need more defensive utility". It's, "Should spriests have a defensive utility that seldom functions?".


So you are saying it is too much to ask that you burn Psychic Scream and Fade, or Psychic Horror and Fade at the same time even though they both have rather short cool downs?

Maybe you would rather have to ensure you keep a pet alive in order to survive more than a couple of seconds against a melee class when your pet has extremely low survivability and dies easy to simple cleave damage.
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85 Undead Priest
4550
If warlocks aren't doing well,

Even with the 15% mitigation SPriests still have some strong offensive/defensive cooldowns which already put them far ahead of Locks when it comes to surviving melee classes.


The question is not, "Do spriests need more defensive utility". It's, "Should spriests have a defensive utility that seldom functions?".


So you are saying it is too much to ask that you burn Psychic Scream and Fade, or Psychic Horror and Fade at the same time even though they both have rather short cool downs?

Maybe you would rather have to ensure you keep a pet alive in order to survive more than a couple of seconds against a melee class when your pet has extremely low survivability and dies easy to simple cleave damage.


Spriests aren't warlocks. If warlocks have some issues, it's likely unrelated to this thread.
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86 Undead Priest
6320
It's amusing how people come in to cry about their class in threads that have nothing to do with them.

Fade w/ Phantasm would be a much more intuitive design if it gave a second or two of immunity to prevent you from being immediately resnared. The issue is not so much that it isn't an instant, free I Get Away From You Now card, it's that in many cases it is impossible to predict whether you will be successful when you use it because of all of the easily reapplied snares in the game.

Perhaps Phantasm should do something else entirely.
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85 Goblin Priest
7440
Your proposed changed would make the talent way overpowered. The only buff phantasm might possibly need is reducing it to a 1 point talent. Spriests are in a pretty good place right now.

@ Soulrender, if you want to complain about warlocks you should make your own thread. It isn't contributing to this discussion at all.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13230
Spriests lose a lot of their defensive capabilities in Cata.

We lose dispersion in any arena match because the current strategy is to avoid the priest until he goes oom and has to disperse for mana.

Shields are incredibly weak because the effectiveness of shields was rolled into the disc mastery.

What are we left with? 15% damage reduction, fade removing a single snare, and 7% VE healing.

Once they buff priests in some way, THEN we can remove defensive dispel magic when we are viable without it. (I know ret pallies are going to Q_Q, but just because you're crippled without it doesn't mean you should ruin everyone else.)
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85 Undead Priest
4550
Spriests lose a lot of their defensive capabilities in Cata.

We lose dispersion in any arena match because the current strategy is to avoid the priest until he goes oom and has to disperse for mana.

Shields are incredibly weak because the effectiveness of shields was rolled into the disc mastery.

What are we left with? 15% damage reduction, fade removing a single snare, and 7% VE healing.

Once they buff priests in some way, THEN we can remove defensive dispel magic when we are viable without it. (I know ret pallies are going to Q_Q, but just because you're crippled without it doesn't mean you should ruin everyone else.)



I think that arena scenario might be better nowadays with the new Masochism, but I'm not on beta to really say.
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85 Undead Priest
4550
It's amusing how people come in to cry about their class in threads that have nothing to do with them.

Fade w/ Phantasm would be a much more intuitive design if it gave a second or two of immunity to prevent you from being immediately resnared. The issue is not so much that it isn't an instant, free I Get Away From You Now card, it's that in many cases it is impossible to predict whether you will be successful when you use it because of all of the easily reapplied snares in the game.

Perhaps Phantasm should do something else entirely.



Yeah, I'd settle for it just having an entirely new function as well. Pretty much just as long as it's not as it is on live, I'm cool...

Heck even if it reduced your total stats by 10%, I'd be cool with that since we wouldn't be getting balanced as if we've got some reliable escape other than dispersion... lol
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85 Human Warlock
5195
Spriests lose a lot of their defensive capabilities in Cata.

We lose dispersion in any arena match because the current strategy is to avoid the priest until he goes oom and has to disperse for mana.

Shields are incredibly weak because the effectiveness of shields was rolled into the disc mastery.

What are we left with? 15% damage reduction, fade removing a single snare, and 7% VE healing.

Once they buff priests in some way, THEN we can remove defensive dispel magic when we are viable without it. (I know ret pallies are going to Q_Q, but just because you're crippled without it doesn't mean you should ruin everyone else.)


How have you failed to mention 5 second blanket silence, Psychic Scream and Psychic Horror since they can be used both Offensively and Defensively.

Also my previous remarks about Warlocks was just to provide an example of how ridiculous this idea is when viewed from an outside perspective.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13230
Spriests lose a lot of their defensive capabilities in Cata.

We lose dispersion in any arena match because the current strategy is to avoid the priest until he goes oom and has to disperse for mana.

Shields are incredibly weak because the effectiveness of shields was rolled into the disc mastery.

What are we left with? 15% damage reduction, fade removing a single snare, and 7% VE healing.

Once they buff priests in some way, THEN we can remove defensive dispel magic when we are viable without it. (I know ret pallies are going to Q_Q, but just because you're crippled without it doesn't mean you should ruin everyone else.)


How have you failed to mention 5 second blanket silence, Psychic Scream and Psychic Horror since they can be used both Offensively and Defensively.

Also my previous remarks about Warlocks was just to provide an example of how ridiculous this idea is when viewed from an outside perspective.


Fear has the most cc breaks in the game.
Horror is a 3 sec stun/ 10 sec disarm (5 since melee use weapon chain).
5 sec blanket.

Compare that to Frost Nova, Imp Cone of Cold, Water element freeze, Frostbolt Slow, Shattered Barrier slow, Counterspell (Half the cd, 8 sec lockout 4 sec blanket) and you'll see why we need more defensive tools. If melee are balanced around getting to frost mages, then every other class that doesnt have the same peels is going to get destroyed.

Blizz band-aided this by giving spriests, boomkin, etc stupid burst damage. That's scaled back in cata. We won't be killing people in 30 seconds so the 45/1 min cd on our short cc's won't impact the arena match nearly as much as they do now.


I think that arena scenario might be better nowadays with the new Masochism, but I'm not on beta to really say.


Nope. As I said, the idea on AJ and on Beta is to completely ignore the shadow priest and he will be forced to use all his defensive cd and shadowfiend (lol cc it /dance) for mana with little to no pressure because dispel spamming is still alive and well.

Edit: also, with melee on top of you, yea 10% max mana back is nice but you will be forced to spam the mana intensive devouring plague (if you want to even do damage) if the melee know where their interrupt button is.
Edited by Bieberfever on 11/18/2010 6:44 PM PST
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90 Undead Mage
10500
Blazing Speed says hi.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13230
Blazing Speed says hi.


Yeah I know it sucks.




At least you get a run speed buff =P
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