Spriest Defensive Utility (PvP)

85 Human Warlock
5195

Fear has the most cc breaks in the game.

Horror is a 3 sec stun/ 10 sec disarm (5 since melee use weapon chain).

5 sec blanket.

Compare that to Frost Nova, Imp Cone of Cold, Water element freeze, Frostbolt Slow, Shattered Barrier slow, Counterspell (Half the cd, 8 sec lockout 4 sec blanket) and you'll see why we need more defensive tools. If melee are balanced around getting to frost mages, then every other class that doesnt have the same peels is going to get destroyed.

Blizz band-aided this by giving spriests, boomkin, etc stupid burst damage. That's scaled back in cata. We won't be killing people in 30 seconds so the 45/1 min cd on our short cc's won't impact the arena match nearly as much as they do now.


So wait, you are saying SPriests are UP because Mages are OP????


Spriests aren't warlocks. If warlocks have some issues, it's likely unrelated to this thread.


SPriests aren't Mages. If Mages have some issues, it's likely unrelated to this thread.

FIXT!!!!!
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86 Undead Priest
6320
... Blizz band-aided this by giving spriests, boomkin, etc stupid burst damage. That's scaled back in cata. We won't be killing people in 30 seconds so the 45/1 min cd on our short cc's won't impact the arena match nearly as much as they do now.


But we also shouldn't be dying so quickly, so our cooldowns will be up more frequently. That argument cuts both ways.

The issue with Phantasm has nothing to do with shadowpriests having a diverse toolset — that's another discussion entirely. Moreover, having a rich toolset (or not having one) does not justify one of those tools behaving poorly in execution due to counterintuitive design.

I do not know why people imagine that listing off abilities makes a convincing argument.

Fade with Phantasm is very situational, and that's totally OK and probably by design. The issue is that it's very difficult to know, with a few exceptions, when it's OK to use it. The situation in which you can expect it to work usually involves the person(s) snaring you to be CC'd so you know they won't simply resnare you.

That's a pretty high cost to use the ability reliably, and it also partially defeats the purpose — if your assailant is CC'd, you don't necessarily need to remove their snare, though this is sometimes useful. It's a somewhat odd and not terribly useful niche for the talent + spell.
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85 Undead Priest
4550
Blazing Speed says hi.


Yeah I know it sucks.




At least you get a run speed buff =P


At least they have a viable PvP dps spec =D
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85 Undead Priest
4550
... Blizz band-aided this by giving spriests, boomkin, etc stupid burst damage. That's scaled back in cata. We won't be killing people in 30 seconds so the 45/1 min cd on our short cc's won't impact the arena match nearly as much as they do now.


But we also shouldn't be dying so quickly, so our cooldowns will be up more frequently. That argument cuts both ways.

The issue with Phantasm has nothing to do with shadowpriests having a diverse toolset — that's another discussion entirely. Moreover, having a rich toolset (or not having one) does not justify one of those tools behaving poorly in execution due to counterintuitive design.

I do not know why people imagine that listing off abilities makes a convincing argument.

Fade with Phantasm is very situational, and that's totally OK and probably by design. The issue is that it's very difficult to know, with a few exceptions, when it's OK to use it. The situation in which you can expect it to work usually involves the person(s) snaring you to be CC'd so you know they won't simply resnare you.

That's a pretty high cost to use the ability reliably, and it also partially defeats the purpose — if your assailant is CC'd, you don't necessarily need to remove their snare, though this is sometimes useful. It's a somewhat odd and not terribly useful niche for the talent + spell.



AMEN BRUTHA!

And let's not forget that you're burning a global cooldown that your assailant is not while he pops a trinket. In these situations, globals can be life and death, there shouldn't be a tool that not even Miss Cleo could predict a good time to use the freakin' thing.
Edited by Masahn on 11/18/2010 7:08 PM PST
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87 Troll Priest
3850
Although this doesn't go directly with our surv, with the new change...we can only have 4 apparitions up at one time. So there goes our 'better' aoe option, and there goes the strategy in a bg to tab pain on ppl and run so we'll we are basically just running around dodging 20 billion rogues trying to gib us.

I mean, really, can a shadow priest not be nerfed due to QQ just once? Hell, MSpike should be enough in terms of nerfing.

"GG, that SPriest is having more fun than me b/c he gets to have a lot of gimpy spirits flying out of his ass. NERF!"
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85 Human Priest
5815
Spriests are in a pretty good place right now.


At level 80. Nothing OP about phantasm giving a 1 or 2 sec immunity.
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85 Human Rogue
2460

It's my understanding that the lack of peels has been the big weakness (in arenas, at least) of the spriest. We'll keep that flaw with this change, but I believe in turn that we'll be more viable in the team compositions that can actually support a spriest.


I thought the same for a while when playing my priest but I disagree now. Fade requires some skill atm, and as long as you have a partner to peel it is excellent. It's too difficult to make mistakes as shadow imo. Fading properly and timing dispersion are just two things that don't feel rotational for shadow, unlike dpsing/healing/dispelling.

That's a pretty high cost to use the ability reliably, and it also partially defeats the purpose — if your assailant is CC'd, you don't necessarily need to remove their snare, though this is sometimes useful. It's a somewhat odd and not terribly useful niche for the talent + spell.


You're missing the point. You cc in order to use fade to gain distance on someone. It's not about the duration of time they will be cc'd but what happens after they get out of it. With the right partner (like a feral or rogue) it is an underrated ability.
Edited by Plu on 11/19/2010 8:46 AM PST
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85 Undead Priest
4550

It's my understanding that the lack of peels has been the big weakness (in arenas, at least) of the spriest. We'll keep that flaw with this change, but I believe in turn that we'll be more viable in the team compositions that can actually support a spriest.


I thought the same for a while when playing my priest but I disagree now. Fade requires some skill atm, and as long as you have a partner to peel it is excellent. It's too difficult to make mistakes as shadow imo. Fading properly and timing dispersion are just two things that don't feel rotational for shadow, unlike dpsing/healing/dispelling.

That's a pretty high cost to use the ability reliably, and it also partially defeats the purpose — if your assailant is CC'd, you don't necessarily need to remove their snare, though this is sometimes useful. It's a somewhat odd and not terribly useful niche for the talent + spell.


You're missing the point. You cc in order to use fade to gain distance on someone. It's not about the duration of time they will be cc'd but what happens after they get out of it. With the right partner (like a feral or rogue) it is an underrated ability.


I don't really see where these points are valid without some reasoning as to why fade should only be useful if it's
a) only a 1v1
b) used with a team specifically designed to make it worthwhile, and only when used in perfect conjunction with your teammates, which is unlike any other ability I can think of in this game.

Even if it is too difficult to make a mistake on a spriest, keeping imp. fade unreliable isn't going to have an impact on that. A priest is not "good" because he/she can time fade well - they are simply in one of the few scenarios where it's useful. It's not hard to hit fade when their entire team is locked down, in fact it becomes the obvious move.

Our point is that the talent should be useful in more scenarios than just "my arena team just served me a fade opportunity on a silver platter".
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100 Dwarf Hunter
17265
There are plenty of "situational" abilities in this game. Heck there are even some that have had their original purpose gutted so that they serve little to no purpose with out the slightest hint that they will be reworked. So fade having limited usability is not as unheard of as you may think
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85 Undead Priest
4550
There are plenty of "situational" abilities in this game. Heck there are even some that have had their original purpose gutted so that they serve little to no purpose with out the slightest hint that they will be reworked. So fade having limited usability is not as unheard of as you may think


What other 2-talent point move on a cooldown is as situational as fade?
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100 Human Paladin
5765
The two glaring irregularities in the shadow tree right now as far as talent point investment are the points spent in fade and Imp MB. Slimming those two down would be a good start.
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85 Undead Priest
4550
The two glaring irregularities in the shadow tree right now as far as talent point investment are the points spent in fade and Imp MB. Slimming those two down would be a good start.


I'd rather they made the talent worth the expenditure. I think a lot of priests would agree... in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Devs would agree.

I suppose this debate can't go a lot farther without knowing what the devs' real intention was - a niche move, or something a priest can often depend on.
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
2050
Couple this with a nerf to defensive dispel and maybe you have something.
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90 Troll Priest
11765
It's amusing how people come in to cry about their class in threads that have nothing to do with them.



With any thread about shadow priests, you'll find warlocks and paladins posting in them. It's a given.
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80 Undead Death Knight
2050
It's amusing how people come in to cry about their class in threads that have nothing to do with them.



With any thread about shadow priests, you'll find warlocks and paladins posting in them. It's a given.


Well is always warlocks saying "priests have this, warlocks dont have this"
and paladins as soon as they see a priest thread its likeaklnnVBKLKN;lkBNNVB:LnBl;mk;lmlDISPELSNEEDNURFSlvlkvzklnzvnkzknnkznknkvnkknlVnkl

Literally look at the old forums its the same 2 classes that try to hijack any thread about priests.

Like if someone make a thread "well disc could use some survivability", a paladin would respond "they need to nerf dispels 1st, far too spammy" buh??????
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90 Dwarf Priest
8000
All I want from phantasm is 2 seconds of snare immunity. Just 2. It'd be nice to use against rogues or run through a desecration. Its incredibly lame if I have to use a global, to get an effect that doesn't even last that long.

Right now for 2 points its so underbudget.

Can't run lower than 100% speed for full fade duration is very powerful considering the cooldown of the spell though.
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