Any Chance of Atonement Being Buffed a Bit?

85 Draenei Priest
3910
Well...guess who forgot the old forums were going read-only today? This guy :P

So I hope no one minds if I migrate this thread over. I was enjoying the discussion in the original, so I thought I'd impose myself and my redundant thread on the new forums :)

Anywho...

I'm not asking for anything super-overpowered for Atonement. Just a numbers tweak. If I remember correctly, the intent was to have Atonement essentially become a semi-replacement for Heal as a filler spell for tanks and melee.

There is an optional Discipline build where you take Atonement/Archangel and you can use Smite on the tanked target, and have higher HPS than if you just chain Heal the tank. This isn’t always optimal, as Atonement heals the lowest health target (which could be a Rogue standing in a fire), but that’s not always such a bad thing in Cataclysm’s environment where the MT doesn’t have to be spam healed. That said, we think it is interesting gameplay unique to the Disc priest.

In an upcoming build, when you critically hit with Smite your Atonement will critically heal (and cause Divine Aegis).


With the latest buff to Heal and the buff to Grace, Heal seems to outpace Atonement by quite a bit in terms of both efficiency and throughput.

Any chance of seeing Atonement being changed back to 120% of damage done like it used to be? Just to make the two spells roughly equivalent to each other again, that's all.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
10155
If they just fix the range issue it'll be usable.

It will have a niche spot as being a fun heal to use when the bosses take extra damage or when you get a buff to do extra damage. I thought this would be a rare occurrence but it seems to be pretty popular in Cata raid encounters.
Reply Quote
85 Draenei Priest
3910
If they just fix the range issue it'll be usable.

It will have a niche spot as being a fun heal to use when the bosses take extra damage or when you get a buff to do extra damage. I thought this would be a rare occurrence but it seems to be pretty popular in Cata raid encounters.


This is also true. I keep checking each beta build like a kid on Christmas morning to see if they finally fixed the hitbox issues. So far no dice. Still holding out hope that they'll get that one taken care of before launch.

And to be a little more candid, I have to admit a lot of the testing I've done on this has been outside of a real raid situation. Mostly just test dummy stuff in a vacuum. So you might be right that things end up balancing out with raid buffs and such.

Sadly I haven't had time to get into a pickup raid in the last week or two to test out a lot of the new changes, so I'll have to take your word for it for now.
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Priest
15545
Good catch, Heal now always better than Atonement.

But Atonement is awesome in an elemental invasion when you aren't in a raid and can still heal people! There are always strange cases and exceptions. Damage buffs and vulnerabilities will be nerfed to not work with Atonement if it becomes good.

Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
6875
If I am correct in assuming that Blizzard still wants both builds (Atonement and Heal) viable, then I believe Atonement needs some updating. I have no intention of just using Smite, but I just don't think it will cut it for what it is intended for.

My first suggestion was to buff the range to about 15 yards. Is that fair? Atonement won't even heal my tank when we're fighting bosses with large hitboxes (most bosses!).
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
6875
Also, Smite really could benefit from a longer range. 35 of 36 seems reasonable to me.
Reply Quote
85 Draenei Priest
3910
If I am correct in assuming that Blizzard still wants both builds (Atonement and Heal) viable, then I believe Atonement needs some updating. I have no intention of just using Smite, but I just don't think it will cut it for what it is intended for.

My first suggestion was to buff the range to about 15 yards. Is that fair? Atonement won't even heal my tank when we're fighting bosses with large hitboxes (most bosses!).


I don't know if it needs a boost to the range as much as it needs to define the distance from the hitbox a little differently. If you measured the distance at the rim of the target's hitbox (like Circle of Healing appears to), then a range increase wouldn't really be necessary.

Would I like a 40 yard range on Smite like the rest of my healing spells? Sure, but it's definitely something I won't have a lot of trouble dealing with if the other issues are addressed in some way.
Reply Quote
16 Gnome Warlock
50
The Atonement mechanic is cool but kind of primitive right now. They should also add offensive Penance and Holy Fire. Holy Fire would add a nice little smart-hot and allow people to get use from the Smite glyph. Offensive Penance does less damage than it heals for, so it wouldn't be overpowered since you're sacrificing healing power for a little damage.
Reply Quote
85 Troll Mage
5020
The whole "eva -> archangel -> attonement" thing is useless crap as of now.

Will PvPers pick the talents? nop, not practical and better talent options
Will PvEers pick the talents? nop, well, these ones dont pick utility talents

So whats the niche of this thing? farming elementals as disc? lol, just lol
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
4185
hokay, imma do that annoying wishlist thing for smite disc. Bare with me.

- tack holy fire onto atonement

- make divine accuracy increase the hit chance of HF by 18% and increase the range on smite and HF by 10 yrds.

- tack on an effect to evan; your smites increase the duration of the HF dot by 2 secs. (or put this effect anywhere; smite glyph, atone, divine acc - it doesn't really matter)

- tack HF onto the evan stack build-up.

- Add an effect to the smite glyph; increase the damage of your next HF when you smite by 5%, stacks 3 times.

And then see where things stand. Now that the smite glyph can substantially provide 20% extra healing and the burst healing of HF is added (with a small trickle smart-hot) that might make up the difference and add a more involved feeling to the spec.
Reply Quote
1 Human Priest
0
The whole "eva -> archangel -> attonement" thing is useless crap as of now.

Will PvPers pick the talents? nop, not practical and better talent options
Will PvEers pick the talents? nop, well, these ones dont pick utility talents

So whats the niche of this thing? farming elementals as disc? lol, just lol


The sad thing is that that is all that disc got this expansion (besides the long cooldown Power Word: Barrier). I thought of that the other day and it is just sad. Disc got some lame heroic boredom talents and a cooldown they use every two minutes. And the things lost from the tree were so major it is ridiculous. Why would anyone and I do mean ANYONE be excited about playing disc in Cataclysm vs. WOTLK?
Reply Quote
Atonement needs to be dropped from Disc in it's current incarnation and Smite needs to be allowed to heal a random friendly as part of the basic ability for ALL priests builds.

Perhaps Atomement could cause Smite crits to also return a small amount of mana, energy, rage, or runic power to random players?

Smite doing damage and healing is the best thing to happen to priests in a long while, it has made me comfortable soloing pve while in a heal build for the first time since vanilla. Unfair for Disc to have it and not Holy when Holy most of their dps talents.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Priest
6690
Do you think perhaps our expectations are too high for atonement? When I first saw the talent, I thought "That would be really good for solo play," and "that should be good for pvpers' while they wait for a peel." I never thought it ever replace heal. Perhaps its intent was to fill in some smites to cure instance boredom when you over gear content.

While hit box issue is big, don't expect to get it fixed anytime soon. I have seen similar problems take forever to get fixed. (<---don't read it won't get fixed)

Reply Quote
85 Draenei Priest
3910
Do you think perhaps our expectations are too high for atonement? When I first saw the talent, I thought "That would be really good for solo play," and "that should be good for pvpers' while they wait for a peel." I never thought it ever replace heal. Perhaps its intent was to fill in some smites to cure instance boredom when you over gear content.

While hit box issue is big, don't expect to get it fixed anytime soon. I have seen similar problems take forever to get fixed. (<---don't read it won't get fixed)


I have a hard time believing that they would intentionally introduce a brand new mechanic just to have it sit out on the sidelines for the first tier of content. I could certainly be wrong here, but my interpretation of blue post I quoted above is that Atonement is intended to be an alternative "filler" spell similar to Heal.

(As a side note, the last time I checked it, the spellpower coefficient for Smite was much higher than Heal. Like to the point of being really broken in later tiers. If memory serves me correctly, the coefficient for Smite was around three times what Heal's was. So this might all be a moot point in later tiers of gear...or they'll probably just nerf the coefficient, which seems fair as long as the numbers are still fairly equivalent.)

Before the latest two buffs to Heal, there was a real give and take between the two spells. You could either keep your five stacks of Evangelism up and use either cheaper Smites or Heal depending on who needed it, all while also having a cheaper Penance. Archangel became the button that you hit when you really needed to turn up the juice.

It would be a shame if you felt like you had to slightly hamper yourself just to build up for occasional boost to healing. It may still turn out that way, but I really enjoyed having to think about which filler spell to use. If Heal becomes the hands-down better choice to the heals from Atonement, then there's never any reason to use more than five Smites at a time (if there's any reason to use it at all).

As far as the hitbox stuff goes, it's a deal-breaker for a lot of fights. I may still spec into it, but it would be hard to justify a talent that's only usable on fights where it isn't bugged.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
9925
Heal SP coefficient = 30.2%
Smite SP coefficient = 71.4%

If these numbers go live, at 7kSP Smite damage should still be approximately equal to Heal.

As things stand now, there's no good reason for a Disc priest to even have Heal on their tool bar.
Reply Quote
85 Draenei Priest
3910
Heal SP coefficient = 30.2%
Smite SP coefficient = 71.4%

If these numbers go live, at 7kSP Smite damage should still be approximately equal to Heal.

As things stand now, there's no good reason for a Disc priest to even have Heal on their tool bar.


There's still plenty of good reasons to use Heal. Namely, if you have to heal ranged or stack Grace or remove weakened soul.

On the beta in full T11 gear Smite (at full Evangelism stacks) hits for around 8k non-crit. Heal (without any stacks of Grace) lands for around 9k. When you add in things like Grace and Archangel, the gap between the two gets even wider.

Now if the coefficients stay the same, that's definitely going to change with gear. But, to be honest, I can't see them leaving the coefficients that lopsided for long once we start moving into later tiers.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
17030
Your coefficients don't take into account talents.
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Priest
15545
Heal SP coefficient = 30.2%
Smite SP coefficient = 71.4%

If these numbers go live, at 7kSP Smite damage should still be approximately equal to Heal.

As things stand now, there's no good reason for a Disc priest to even have Heal on their tool bar.


How do you heal ranged in a mana sensitive situation without Heal on your bar?
Reply Quote
85 Draenei Priest
3910
Your coefficients don't take into account talents.


I have to admit I'm a little fuzzy on how to calculate spell coefficients. I'll have to do some more digging. Anyone else care to share the talented and untalented results for these two spells?
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
9925
With talents and glyphs, Renew and GHeal are both more mana-efficient and a lot more time-efficient than Heal for healing players outside Atonement range. Renew doesn't move Grace.

The biggest problem with Atonement is that it's heal isn't affected by any outside modifiers, such as Grace, Archangel, Glyph of PW:B, etc. There is where Heal has a pure advantage in numbers. Smiting through Atonement, however, contributes far more overall.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]