Healers need to get real.

85 Blood Elf Paladin
5850
It would make more sense if were less powerful now, at 80, so we could get more powerful at 85. However, if we were less powerful, it would impossible to do current level 80 content. So there isn't much Blizzard could do but make it feel like we're getting less powerful as we level. Bad design, perhaps, but it's the only way to compensate for bad Wrath design without completely changing ICC, or making us unable to heal it.
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I don't play a priest, but while I initially had manna issues, I was able to come up with a plan to manage my resources more effectively. Could be that there is a winning strategy for Priests too. In wrath of the Lich King, your gear alone determined you ability as a healer. Now your skill is just as important as your gear. Man up and figure it out!
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1 Dwarf Paladin
0
DPS will be rewarded by watching their damage go up and up as they level. Tank's job will be as challenging as ever, but they will also be rewarded by having their health and damage go up. However from what I hear from people who have healed on the Beta, healers capabilities get steadily worse as they level, with healing becoming harder and less rewarding and ever more frustrating until sometime a long way into the expansion.

Is it really that bad? I didn't play on Beta, so I can't say from experience, but is healing really vastly more harder and more frustrating than it is now? It seems a little unfair that dpsing in Cata is as easy as it ever was, tanking still challenging but about the same level - and only healing becomes a lot more difficult.


Yup pretty much, its that bad.

I havent played but from a friend who is in beta it works itself out by the first raiding tier is about close to balanced.

The problem is everything is broken getting there...

No dungeons while leveling...

Yeah the current progression is ignore all dungeons while leveling, get to 85, spend jp's, archeology, get craftables get into normals for a short bit then into heroics.

Heaven help you if you dont save jp's or dont want to do archeology since you will have no alternate gear paths and LFD are going to ruthlessly boot undergears.
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85 Human Priest
7085
I don't play a priest, but while I initially had manna issues, I was able to come up with a plan to manage my resources more effectively. Could be that there is a winning strategy for Priests too. In wrath of the Lich King, your gear alone determined you ability as a healer. Now your skill is just as important as your gear. Man up and figure it out!


I don't play a priest


so.. why are you talking about priests? I haven't experienced this in 85 content, but I've seen posts of stats and screenshots from 85 content showing information supporting this: Priests have the smallest mana pools and the worst mana regen of all healers.

Also when it comes to mana regen abilities, priests have the worst of them all:
Pally: Divine Plea
Druid: Innervate
Shaman: Mana Tide Totem
Priest: Hymn of Hope

Which of these restores the least amount of mana to the caster? Hymn of Hope
Which of these is a channeled spell, preventing the healer from healing while restoring their mana? Hymn of Hope
Which of these might not even affect the caster if desired? Hymn of Hope
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85 Orc Shaman
3990
I'm so excited for healing to be challenging again =DDD
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85 Human Priest
4920
I would encourage every healer who even feel a slight bit hesitation in healing in Cata to stop healing altogether and just DPS.


Please do, I want quicker queue times.


Second this motion
besides no matter how crap it gets will always be a healer (and holy)
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90 Night Elf Druid
10550
I think a lot of ppl are whining right now because they are at a mixed point. They are doing WotLK mobs that don't follow the Cata rules. GC said that they made things in WotLK high damage which forces the expensive spells. Now the characters are following the Cata mana regen rules but the mobs and bosses are still folowing the WotLK rules for high damage. This makes healers feel weaker than they are/will be. They are going OOM the middle of phase 2 on LK and can't do much about it because they HAVE to use the expensive spells or people will die.


Currently, I don't "feel" weaker in the least. If anything, I feel spammier since the changes, due to Nourish not really having a place right now. I also don't really have mana problems. Then again, I'm conscious of what I'm casting and when I'm casting and myself and the other healers in the raid have great synergy and communication.

I'm not sure what healers you know that are oom on LK phase 2, but they're either not being very efficient or you have other issues going on in your raid that are contributing to having to cast big, expensive heals constantly.

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85 Human Priest
7085

Currently, I don't "feel" weaker in the least. If anything, I feel spammier since the changes, due to Nourish not really having a place right now. I also don't really have mana problems. Then again, I'm conscious of what I'm casting and when I'm casting and myself and the other healers in the raid have great synergy and communication.

I'm not sure what healers you know that are oom on LK phase 2, but they're either not being very efficient or you have other issues going on in your raid that are contributing to having to cast big, expensive heals constantly.


I have to agree with this - only when it comes to PvE. I can't tell how hard it will be to heal at 85 compared to now but I know if our numbers don't go up there will be huge problems considering HP pools increase significantly. There's a few things that need to be balanced still with all the new mechanics and class structures, but overall I still feel competent as a PvE healer. I do, however, feel my survivability (for pvp) is drastically reduced.
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100 Human Priest
23610
It would make more sense if were less powerful now, at 80, so we could get more powerful at 85. However, if we were less powerful, it would impossible to do current level 80 content. So there isn't much Blizzard could do but make it feel like we're getting less powerful as we level. Bad design, perhaps, but it's the only way to compensate for bad Wrath design without completely changing ICC, or making us unable to heal it.


Oh please, they could have made us heal for more, HP went up a lot, and heals were a lot stronger relative to HP in BC than Cata, and BC featured a lot of mana management. Making output this week was NOT the only way to change healing and require mana management.
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85 Draenei Priest
11670


Also when it comes to mana regen abilities, priests have the worst of them all:
Pally: Divine Plea
Druid: Innervate
Shaman: Mana Tide Totem
Priest: Hymn of Hope

Which of these restores the least amount of mana to the caster? Hymn of Hope
Which of these is a channeled spell, preventing the healer from healing while restoring their mana? Hymn of Hope
Which of these might not even affect the caster if desired? Hymn of Hope


Which priest regen mechanic did you ignore just so you could play the martyr? Shadowfiend
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80 Night Elf Druid
2875
Just a game dude, you may need a little bit of a break......
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1 Dwarf Paladin
0
I also don't think they are "out to get us". I think they have determined that healing is the easiest (and I do mean that literally) for them to use to limit speed. And being a boat anchor is not necessarily synonymous with "fun" (remember that word?).

Mages are going to be able to complete an encounter. Warlocks are mana batteries that will simply ask for the occasional heal to top them off. Healers are going to be oom after most pulls.

With the average patience exhibited in PUGs, combined with the community-building measures like LFD (/scarcasm) that they have implemented, healers will become increasingly hard to find. NOBODY likes everything to be hard-mode all the time. Nobody. Not even the epeen waggers criticizing healers for "whining". The road for healers is going to be rocky.


this seems to be the problem, someone had to take the hit and suck for everyone else to have fun, and they seem to have decided healers was the easiest place to put it.

They probably didnt want to put any more pressure on tanks, and ticking off the teaming and paying masses of dps probably was right out of the question so it leaves healers.
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85 Human Paladin
4475
It doesn't matter if healing gets worse at 85, winning the fight is what matters.

If Blizz made healing very hard, they will lose people but guilds will value healing even more.

Today healing is plentiful because it's an easy job overall. I play DPS and Healing, I find DPS to be more challenging in WOTLK because you actually have to be involved in the fight and have a game plan. Healing you just spam and don't stand in stuff, is that really that hard?

Most fights in ICC, you just try to spam your biggest and far reaching heal button. Everyone just blanket heals.

I want Blizz to make good Healers valuable again, I'm tired of seeing bad players being carried by their class and bad healers getting into raid just because they have 1-2 spell that the raid needs.

Every healer need to learn their class, role, and when to expense what spell. Let the bad healers reroll and the good healers shine and get valued.
Edited by Basara on 11/21/2010 8:51 PM PST
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85 Night Elf Druid
6850
I also don't think they are "out to get us". I think they have determined that healing is the easiest (and I do mean that literally) for them to use to limit speed. And being a boat anchor is not necessarily synonymous with "fun" (remember that word?).

Mages are going to be able to complete an encounter. Warlocks are mana batteries that will simply ask for the occasional heal to top them off. Healers are going to be oom after most pulls.

With the average patience exhibited in PUGs, combined with the community-building measures like LFD (/scarcasm) that they have implemented, healers will become increasingly hard to find. NOBODY likes everything to be hard-mode all the time. Nobody. Not even the epeen waggers criticizing healers for "whining". The road for healers is going to be rocky.


this seems to be the problem, someone had to take the hit and suck for everyone else to have fun, and they seem to have decided healers was the easiest place to put it.

They probably didnt want to put any more pressure on tanks, and ticking off the teaming and paying masses of dps probably was right out of the question so it leaves healers.


To a certain degree I agree with this.

I think the main issue is that Blizzard is over-estimating the maturity (perhaps adaptability is a better word?) of people by a lot. No one wants to be at fault for anything, and it's very easy in WoW to point fingers.

I know that the first few weeks when Cata are coming out, I am not playing with any PuGs at all. There is no way I am submitting myself to that frustration. There are times even now where I throw my arms up in exasperation at our community. I think it will be very easy to misconceive a wipe as the healer's fault.

If I quit being a healer, it won't be be because I think that Blizzard is persecuting healers. It will be because of a persecuting, and misunderstanding community.
Edited by Easternwind on 11/21/2010 9:07 PM PST
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85 Draenei Priest
7625
I think a lot of ppl are whining right now because they are at a mixed point. They are doing WotLK mobs that don't follow the Cata rules. GC said that they made things in WotLK high damage which forces the expensive spells. Now the characters are following the Cata mana regen rules but the mobs and bosses are still folowing the WotLK rules for high damage. This makes healers feel weaker than they are/will be. They are going OOM the middle of phase 2 on LK and can't do much about it because they HAVE to use the expensive spells or people will die.


Currently, I don't "feel" weaker in the least. If anything, I feel spammier since the changes, due to Nourish not really having a place right now. I also don't really have mana problems. Then again, I'm conscious of what I'm casting and when I'm casting and myself and the other healers in the raid have great synergy and communication.

I'm not sure what healers you know that are oom on LK phase 2, but they're either not being very efficient or you have other issues going on in your raid that are contributing to having to cast big, expensive heals constantly.


Right now, Shamans have no mana issues on LK, because infest, the AOE damage from the transition phases and from the Frostmourne room mean you get so many procs from Water Shield orbs proccing that you have near infinite mana. On my shaman on H LK, I may get down to 30-40% by the end of P2, but then will get up to nearly 100% by early in P3 because of all the raid damage triggering water shield. Disc priests obviously have no issues because of the mass Rapture procs. Since infest was nerfed, what I have been doing for H LK if I am doing it as Disc is using my holy itemized gear, and not using mastery reforged gear, as well as dropping the T10 4pc bonus and using a Spirit flask instead of a SP flask. That's generally enough for infest to mass burst like 3 groups worth of PW:S at once, which means infinite mana.

Holy mana regen is terrible for H LK, and generally you will need Innervates throughout the fight even when popping all CDs. Pre-4.0, I would spec the 18/53 Mental Agility spec for this fight, basically because even pre-mana regen nerfs, holy priest regen could be really dicey on very long fights. Now, it's a complete train wreck. I haven't tried H LK on my pally, so I can't really comment on that. Doing other ICC HMs on the pally, one of the nice things, is pallies can still keep on healing while running low on juice because you can go down to using very efficient Holy Shock/Holy Lights and using as many 3 stack Word of Glories as you can.

You are also playing a class that has absolutely 0 mana problems, because you are still working with pre-nerf Revitalize. With Revitalize the way it is on live, you are getting 2-3 times as much total regen as a holy priest is. Frankly, a resto druid having any mana issues whatsoever on live is just being terrible.

However, 4.0.3a (possibly this week), essentially nerfs Revitalize by 2/3 and increases the mana cost of Rejuvenation by 30%. Once that goes through, let's see if you feel the same; essentially resto druids are taking about a 50% regen hit.
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100 Dwarf Priest
20165
Not that many 5-mans, normal or heroic, are going to get run for the first few weeks into Cataclysm due to a chronic shortage of healers. Unfortunately even normals seem to be greatly overtuned given the extreme nerfs healers will be subjected to as they level. Not until they can get to 85, get some crafted or rep gear will the great majority of healers be confident enough to queue using LFD on a regular basis, even for normals.
Edited by Cullodina on 11/21/2010 10:41 PM PST
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