We want Matchmaking....Rated BG Randoms FTW

85 Goblin Hunter
0
Let me be frank. If you play any of the other top online games out there what is the system that works? Halo, Team Fortress, Modern Warefare?

They all use dedicated servers or a Matchmaking system. The equivalent in wow would be premade and single queue option based on skill rank. These are what work for the top selling games out there.

They should just have a queue rated BG that only allows queued people and a random rated BG so people can play the flavor they want. You want to have a guild dedicated to PVP great do that, it will be just like every dedicated server with guilds in countless PC shooters. You casual and dont care about having to make the best of a team of perfect strangers great you get your Matchmaking system similar to what Halo does and you never get pit against premades so it's more fair.

If they implemented it like this dollars to doughnuts the premade side of things would be a barren wasteland and the matchmaking would be king, why? Because people are sick to death of trolling trade LFG, LF GS 5500+ spamming for 30-40 minutes of their 2 hours they had set aside to play that day then finally get a group and have half leave if they lose thats why. This system is doomed to failure you cannot regularly organize 15 skilled people without pugging or being in a stupid guild with rules that often encroach on your sanity and personel life.

This is exactly the thing alot of PVP'ers wanted to avoid like the plague and why they stopped raiding and moved to BG. Please blizz look at what the vast number of people are talking about here we do not want Guild officers telling us if we are qualified to play on their rated team or not. We want to queue with similarly skilled player quickly and efficiently just like in Left for Dead, Halo, Team Fortress, Modern Warefare and countless other games out there. We want a Matchmaking system!

If you toss the "Hardcore" a rated queue system fine go ahead they can bang their heads against a wall and us people with real lives can laugh when they show up in rated BG randoms gripping about how they sat there for an hour spamming trade to fill slots for the last 5 people from their guild that didnt show and finally gave in to the system that works...
Reply Quote
85 Undead Priest
6340
I don't know how you wouldn't consider WoW to be a top online successful game...

Besides... we've already went over how you can't compare FPS games to RPG's. Premade characters vs gear progression. Just doesn't work. No one wants a bot/afker/terrible player getting the same gear as someone who puts in the effort.
Reply Quote
85 Goblin Hunter
0
I don't know how you wouldn't consider WoW to be a top online successful game...

Besides... we've already went over how you can't compare FPS games to RPG's. Premade characters vs gear progression. Just doesn't work. No one wants a bot/afker/terrible player getting the same gear as someone who puts in the effort.



I never said WoW wasnt a top online game I said WoW should use a system familiar to everyone that plays all the other top online games. Matchmaking is a system that has proven successful and works. I also stated that if you want to have a "Hardcore Queue Only" mode go for it. But dont force people to wait hours on end spamming trade or force players to join a guild in order to enjoy BG. I have played wow since BG was first introduced. I and alot of other people play it to avoid the insanity that comes with rading we want it pure and simple not overly complicated by guild rules.

Queue teams can go play other people that WANT to play queue teams people that WANT to matchmake should be able to do that and have a fair shot at getting geared they should not be treated like red headed step children just because other people have more time to waste playing WoW.

It doesnt prove your more skilled if you get better gear then someone because your guild carried you and they have wife , kid, or college keeping them off the game. Are you afraid with equal gear they might beat you? Gasp then that means they are as skilled as you are or better in the end, how dare blizz make a game based on skill not OP gear sets huh?

This said punishing the casual player because peopel use farm bots is not a solution there are people that have jobs and lives that cant spend the time necessary to earn a slot in a guild they should not be forced to wear welfare blues because they dont suck up to a guild leader or play 12 hrs a day.

You mention noone want a bot afker or terrible player getting the same gear I agree. Have you ever played Matchmaking in Halo? It doesnt matter if everyone on your team did well and got kills if you didnt get any..... you didnt get any... you get the reward of winning but your not gonna rank up like someone who did the lions share of work.

I have always been against the Honorable Kill by virtue of proximity nature of BG's they need to allow a system that rewards effective healing, kills and assists, and overal damage if they did this botters would be SOL because they dont attack anything.

You dont get gear in ModernWarfare? You dont earn Gear in Halo? You Dont earn Gear in Team Fortress 2? News to me.... I used those games specifically for that reason. They are gear progression games and they do work with a Matchmaking system.

The point isnt getting gear in PVP it's having a fairly balanced system so that when you fight it comes down to who was more skilled not who had the developers sympathy.

Reply Quote
85 Goblin Hunter
0
There definitely needed to be another thread about this.

And don't spout out "We want blah blah blah." You want it, but there have been posts from tons of people who are opposed to your idea.


There have been tons of posts supporting it as well, if people want differnt thnigs berating them is just silly Do you seriously think out of the 12million plus people that play wow the vast majority are super hardcore dungeon nerds that play 18 hours a day? Seriously? The vast majority that play wow are casual.

Giving an advantage to a guid team in the form of a higher set of gear just makes the game unbalanced to a casual player. Casual players have to join pugs then square off vs a premade as it is. Now the expectation is they are being forced to go toe to toe with people in epics while they wear welfare blues? Thats Balanced?

If the system only pits people of equal skill against each other anyway why not have 2 seperate queues? Your taking the people that would just get beat on and removing them to a forum they are comfortable with while letting the hardcore players have thier own playground.

As far as the gear is my right and my right alone cause I play more argument thats just silly. By playing more you already get geared faster then anyone that plays casual. Removing even the ability of the casual player to defend himself is not fair or balanced, because lets be honest getting a tier set of gear higher is like having a level or 2 on someone.

PVP should be a Skill based afair not a revisitation of the PVE dungeon crawling, Getting honor should require skill bots should be delt with by getting rid of the Honorable kills by proximity and people should have performance ratings like in Halo that rate healing, kills, assists and total damage as well as completing game objectives like flag captures returns ect. They do most of this already it just needs to be tweaked so that botters wont get any worthwhile amount of honor form just being in game.

That said this game is not balanced around the cheaters they arnt gonna make you faster to fight the people that speed hack or level you automatically like the huntards you see killing apes in Stranglethorn 24/7 so dont start expecting PVP to become balanced around the few idiots that sell gold and hack accounts and start expecting it to be based off the needs of the users that play for fun and pay for a fair experience.
Reply Quote
85 Undead Priest
6340
At this point, lv 80 people in item level 277 gear fighting fresh level 80s in item level 200 gear is like a level 80 fighting a level 60 (do the math.) How does a fresh level 80 even begin to fight back when they are doomed to begin with? This problem is obviously masked by the fact that you have a team and the other players often are in better gear that you can rely on.

The real problem here is the fact that people WANT the system the way it is so they can steamroll people and feel superior. That is one of the major draws to battlegrounds; gearing up and pwning noobs.

If they start matchmaking BGs based on gear, then I'm going to queue up with only a fishing pole because that's how real men PvP.


nah man, we won't see the bad teams or undergeared players in RBGs. That's why they have the MMV (match making value). And as far as level to entry... if you're a fresh 80 at this point, yeah, it will be more difficult to get the current gear set. Why shouldn't it? People with end game pvp gear (generally) have started from s5 > s6 > s7 > s8. Made the transitions from season to season to be at the current level of gear. You telling me someone that just hit 80 should easily skip 2 years worth of content???? It should still be attainable but come on, show some EFFORT.

Quote my next paragraph(s) and reply to it. People posting on here are still around. Still happy with their past pvp experience. They're afraid of the change of Cata and gearing. Let me break it down for you.

WotlK:
Battlegrounds: previous seasons gear though honor (no wep)(no premade required)
Arena: current seasons gear though arena points (1800 T1 wep 2200 T2 wep)(premade)

Cata:
Battlegrounds: previous seasons gear though honor, including previous 1800 wep(no premade required)
Arena: current season gear though conquest points, (2200 rating T2 wep)(premade)
RBG: current season gear though conquest points (cannot obtain T2 wep)(premade)

I bolded the battleground section for 1 reason. You can get the same level of gear you're use to getting as a casual in Cata as WotlK PLUS a wep (which you've wanted for ever)

All they did was add an ADDITIONAL way for players to get "arena" gear. you guys should be excited that blizzard gave you more options. Instead, you just continue to want the best gear with a casual approach.

ps. getting a premade together for a few games every week is hardly time consuming. about as casual as they could make it w/o giving away the gear for free.
Edited by Reckyo on 11/19/2010 1:18 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Night Elf Druid
7630
At this point, lv 80 people in item level 277 gear fighting fresh level 80s in item level 200 gear is like a level 80 fighting a level 60 (do the math.) How does a fresh level 80 even begin to fight back when they are doomed to begin with? This problem is obviously masked by the fact that you have a team and the other players often are in better gear that you can rely on.

The real problem here is the fact that people WANT the system the way it is so they can steamroll people and feel superior. That is one of the major draws to battlegrounds; gearing up and pwning noobs.

If they start matchmaking BGs based on gear, then I'm going to queue up with only a fishing pole because that's how real men PvP.


Actually... most people who are hardcore pvpers enjoy the challenge of other equal geared and skilled pvpers. A win against someone who you feel is on your level or slightly higher feels much greater than a win against some random scrub... the people who want to stomp all over people are the losers in hellfire ganking the lowbies and disappearing when real challenges come their way *cough* <hellfire gankers>-Sargeras *cough cough*

I personally would love to not have to queue with or against terrible people. The current system may allow good players to stomp all over bad players, but it also allows bad players to be carried by good players while doing nothing the entire time.

I'm by no means suggesting rated BGs for points to be solo queue... if you're serious enough about pvping for points you can find yourself a pre-made and queue. I would, however, love to see bgs matched by MMV. 50-50 beats 100-0 I'd be bored to death if i could afk and win. A matchmaking system on a person by person basis could lead to more dynamic and enjoyable gameplay (and if it happens to be a solo-queue rating or whatnot that would be visible and possible bragging rights... all the better).
Edited by Zipther on 11/19/2010 12:04 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Undead Priest
6340



Actually... most people who are hardcore pvpers enjoy the challenge of other equal geared and skilled pvpers. A win against someone who you feel is on your level or slightly higher feels much greater than a win against some random scrub... the people who want to stomp all over people are the losers in hellfire ganking the lowbies and disappearing when real challenges come their way *cough* <hellfire gankers>-Sargeras *cough cough*

I personally would love to not have to queue with or against terrible people. The current system may allow good players to stomp all over bad players, but it also allows bad players to be carried by good players while doing nothing the entire time.

I'm by no means suggesting rated BGs for points to be solo queue... if you're serious enough about pvping for points you can find yourself a pre-made and queue. I would, however, love to see bgs matched by MMV. 50-50 beats 100-0 I'd be bored to death if i could afk and win. A matchmaking system on a person by person basis could lead to more dynamic and enjoyable gameplay (and if it happens to be a solo-queue rating or whatnot that would be visible and possible bragging rights... all the better).


I mean, they're going to take your collective group as a whole and match your average MMV with another teams MMV. Seems pretty balanced to me.

also LOL ♥! @ Hellfire Gankers comment
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Priest
8000
If they implemented it like this dollars to doughnuts the premade side of things would be a barren wasteland and the matchmaking would be king, why? Because people are sick to death of trolling trade LFG, LF GS 5500+ spamming for 30-40 minutes of their 2 hours they had set aside to play that day then finally get a group and have half leave if they lose thats why. This system is doomed to failure you cannot regularly organize 15 skilled people without pugging or being in a stupid guild with rules that often encroach on your sanity and personel life.


You're right that the premade side participation would plummet. And that's probably a big reason why they're doing it. You don't think raid participation would plummet if people could get raid ilvl gear just by soloing?

Thanks for pointing out an obvious flaw in humanity that is laziness. You make it seem like you just discovered something so brilliant lol.

It's called an incentive system. Awarding laziness just means that people don't get to experience the higher level combat and group synergy that you get from a premade.
Reply Quote
85 Goblin Hunter
0
At this point, lv 80 people in item level 277 gear fighting fresh level 80s in item level 200 gear is like a level 80 fighting a level 60 (do the math.) How does a fresh level 80 even begin to fight back when they are doomed to begin with? This problem is obviously masked by the fact that you have a team and the other players often are in better gear that you can rely on.

The real problem here is the fact that people WANT the system the way it is so they can steamroll people and feel superior. That is one of the major draws to battlegrounds; gearing up and pwning noobs.

If they start matchmaking BGs based on gear, then I'm going to queue up with only a fishing pole because that's how real men PvP.



I agree, the problem is people want the unfair advantage.

BG's need a balance that is different from PVE. I can destroy a person in green/blue gear with my current set but I never feal like it was fair and in fact it gets boring. The casual player deserves a shot at getting gear thats why they adjusted the way loot drops in 10 man raids now a similar thing is needed in Rated BG.

There is no reason why everyone that BG's should not get conquest points reguardless if it's a queue or random match, forcing people to deal with long outrageous queues or people that are unfortunate enough to be on low pop servers to spam trade for a pug robs the fun out of the play experience it's the opposite of what it was meant to be.

People have cheated in every online game made, but you know what happens? The developers fix the problem. They dont balance the game around it, so that botters will get my gear argument doesnt hold water.

I Personally do play alot thats why I got the PVP gear I have and have 3 80's with PVP epic sets but I also dont get involved in hardcore "we tell you how/when to play" guilds and have no intention on ever doing so. Nor do I desire to sit in trade spamming for a pug to Rated BG and there are plenty of people right there with me.

All I know is Blizzards handling of this is gonna effect weather alot of people come back for Cataclysm and stay or are turned off by it being to elitest, and a system that punishes you for not being hardcore enough is not encouraging people to stick around after they explore the new content.
Reply Quote
49 Night Elf Warrior
850
No one wants a bot/afker/terrible player getting the same gear as someone who puts in the effort.


Not true. I personally don't care in the slightest if other people have the same gear as I do. I have never viewed gear as a status symbol of any kind, and I think that PvP works better when people all have equal access to the same quality of gear, much like what is being done with Cataclysm.

My enjoyment of my rewards is not enhanced or diminished by how many other people do or do not possess it. I love my 45" plasma TV. The fact that other people have 80" ones doesn't make me enjoy it less, and the fact that other people have 10" curved screen televisions does not make me enjoy it more.

Just tossing that out there. Don't assume you speak for everyone.
Reply Quote
If you want to PUG bgs, why not PUG non-rated BGs?

Premades are going to dominate rated bgs regardless of the existence of solo-queues, so it's not like you're going to get anywhere rating-wise.

The best solo-queuing could possibly be is a replacement for losing 10 games in 5v5 to get your default 350 arena points for the week.

That's just my take on it at least. Maybe other people enjoy getting rolled by premades.
I think that PvP works better when people all have equal access to the same quality of gear, much like what is being done with Cataclysm.
I haven't seen any indications of this for Cataclysm. As far as I know the top-tier items are still going to be somewhat exclusive.
Edited by Tago on 11/19/2010 12:37 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Goblin Hunter
0
If they implemented it like this dollars to doughnuts the premade side of things would be a barren wasteland and the matchmaking would be king, why? Because people are sick to death of trolling trade LFG, LF GS 5500+ spamming for 30-40 minutes of their 2 hours they had set aside to play that day then finally get a group and have half leave if they lose thats why. This system is doomed to failure you cannot regularly organize 15 skilled people without pugging or being in a stupid guild with rules that often encroach on your sanity and personel life.


You're right that the premade side participation would plummet. And that's probably a big reason why they're doing it. You don't think raid participation would plummet if people could get raid ilvl gear just by soloing?

Thanks for pointing out an obvious flaw in humanity that is laziness. You make it seem like you just discovered something so brilliant lol.

It's called an incentive system. Awarding laziness just means that people don't get to experience the higher level combat and group synergy that you get from a premade.



Alot of people would say that playing a Video Game 12 hours a day is laziness.....good thing we both play WoW and dont think that way huh?

If I play Halo, ModernWarefare, Team Fortress2, Left for Dead I open the game and join matchmaking within a 30 sec time period I'm in a match with full voice chat and I am having fun. Wanting that from WoW isnt lazyness. It's an expectation of standards that have been set by the industry.

If they have a Rated BG Queue requirement I need to find 15 people beg them to join me in voicechat or in vent, check their gear and hope they know what they are doing all the while competing aginst people spamming for 5 man and raid content on my low pop server which is no fault of my own.

This isnt a maybe people will be spamming it's a given because the vast majority of people are not in Pro guilds or dont care to be. So you end up with the puggers vs the people in organized guilds, now after a time you would expect the pro's to level and get geared at a faster rate so the end game is a premade in epics vs a premade in mostly blue gear because reguardless of the skill system if there arnt any other people for them to pit you against your gonna go against people with better gear thats just how those things work but only after about an hour of spamming trade chat if your lucky and if noone drops while your looking for people.

That is not fun. That is not fair. That is below the standards set by every other multiplayer game on the market and the fact that your not angry about that baffels me. Shouldnt WoW meet the minimal standard set by every online Game out there? Yeah the games mentioned are shooters but we are talking about a seperate game type within WoW that plays mostly like a online multiplayer game Capture the Flag, Capture the enemy base ect. These are all shooter mechanics put into WoW so yes it needs to meet the standards we expect from such games.

I dont expect gear to be handed to anyone they should earn it and if you read what I said previously I believe you should only get credit from what you do not from Honorable kills floating through the air.

Reply Quote
85 Undead Priest
6340

Alot of people would say that playing a Video Game 12 hours a day is laziness.....good thing we both play WoW and dont think that way huh?

If I play Halo, ModernWarefare, Team Fortress2, Left for Dead I open the game and join matchmaking within a 30 sec time period I'm in a match with full voice chat and I am having fun. Wanting that from WoW isnt lazyness. It's an expectation of standards that have been set by the industry.

If they have a Rated BG Queue requirement I need to find 15 people beg them to join me in voicechat or in vent, check their gear and hope they know what they are doing all the while competing aginst people spamming for 5 man and raid content on my low pop server which is no fault of my own.

This isnt a maybe people will be spamming it's a given because the vast majority of people are not in Pro guilds or dont care to be. So you end up with the puggers vs the people in organized guilds, now after a time you would expect the pro's to level and get geared at a faster rate so the end game is a premade in epics vs a premade in mostly blue gear because reguardless of the skill system if there arnt any other people for them to pit you against your gonna go against people with better gear thats just how those things work but only after about an hour of spamming trade chat if your lucky and if noone drops while your looking for people.

That is not fun. That is not fair. That is below the standards set by every other multiplayer game on the market and the fact that your not angry about that baffels me. Shouldnt WoW meet the minimal standard set by every online Game out there? Yeah the games mentioned are shooters but we are talking about a seperate game type within WoW that plays mostly like a online multiplayer game Capture the Flag, Capture the enemy base ect. These are all shooter mechanics put into WoW so yes it needs to meet the standards we expect from such games.

I dont expect gear to be handed to anyone they should earn it and if you read what I said previously I believe you should only get credit from what you do not from Honorable kills floating through the air.


quote dodging this




WotlK:

Battlegrounds: previous seasons gear though honor (no wep)(no premade required)

Arena: current seasons gear though arena points (1800 T1 wep 2200 T2 wep)(premade)



Cata:

Battlegrounds: previous seasons gear though honor, including 1800 wep(no premade required)

Arena: current season gear though conquest points, (2200 rating T2 wep)(premade)

RBG: current season gear though conquest points (cannot obtain T2 wep)(premade)



I bolded the battleground section for 1 reason. You can get the same level of gear you're use to getting as a casual in Cata as WotlK PLUS a wep (which you've wanted for ever)



All they did was add an ADDITIONAL way for players to get "arena" gear. you guys should be excited that blizzard gave you more options. Instead, you just continue to want the best gear with a casual approach.



ps. getting a premade together for a few games every week is hardly time consuming. about as casual as they could make it w/o giving away the gear for free.


Also, WoW sets its own standard in the industry. Sounds like you need to go play halo, rpg's aren't for you.
Edited by Reckyo on 11/19/2010 1:01 PM PST
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]