New mechanics separates good players from bad

80 Blood Elf Paladin
7190
For all the comments, concerns and criticisms we all have with the new mechanics changes to Paladins, I have to admit, there's *one* thing the change has brought that I love:

It quickly separates the good players from the bad ones.

I'll grant everyone has different learning curves and some people definitely learn faster than others. But even the slowest learners in the best players are constantly working and practising with their class and spec and looking up the theorycrafting and trying to get a handle on the mechanics.

And the bad players QQ. :P

Y/N?
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10 Gnome Rogue
40
I've been seeing plenty of QQ from players with clear poor gearing choices so I'd say it's working.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
0
Good vs bad player argument is sorta Meh.

I can heal very well with the changes ... my over all healing during a raid is higher and my overhealing is down, I don't oom.. yada yada yada, average player doing average stuff pretty well.

I just don't feel that UI watching for for Holy Power lends to fun. I feel a sense of loss while raiding now. It feels too topical and not enough immersion in the raid while watching holy power.

It feels like blizz tried to fix something in ret, but forgot healers are already distracted with grids and healbots and vunhdo... so that adding another distraction at the UI level sort of take away from the game immersion.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
Og
7670
i think for the most part, anyone who was playing ret to be a FOTM has switched to holy...
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
7190
Don't get me wrong, I'm not 100% happy with the change to holy power, either. But how you respond to such a dramatic change, as a player, really differentiates between the bad, the good, and the great players. One's mentality and attitude towards flux really determines how well one will perform in a given class or role. And that goes for casual players who don't min/max as well.
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75 Blood Elf Paladin
1810
I'm not 100% on how the new mechanics separate the good from the bad. All I'm seeing are those who love the changes and those who don't, all for various reasons - and I don't think it has anything to do with how good or bad a player is.
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I'm not 100% on how the new mechanics separate the good from the bad. All I'm seeing are those who love the changes and those who don't, all for various reasons - and I don't think it has anything to do with how good or bad a player is.
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
7190
I'll be more explicit then, with what I've seen on Fizzcrank:

The best players I know quickly figured out the new abilities, rotations and mechanics to their class and spec(s). Some loved the changes, some hated it. Some hate the changes so much that their alts have become their mains. But all of them quickly figured out how to play it well. To the point where they raid now as though they've been playing with the new mechanics all along.

The worst players I know still don't have a rotation figured out, don't really understand how their abilities have changed, and blame the patch for their confusion. But then, these are usually the folks who won't/don't ask for help and refuse any advice that anyone offers.

And, of course, there is a large spectrum in between. I just noticed the divide open very quickly after the patch.

YMMV. I can't speak for all servers.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
7435
<blockquote>i think for the most part, anyone who was playing ret to be a FOTM has switched to holy...</blockquote>
<br/>
<br/>And we thankfully lost a lot more due to the OMG I CANT HEEL LK ANYMOAR!!! ^___^
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
2525
For all the comments, concerns and criticisms we all have with the new mechanics changes to Paladins, I have to admit, there's *one* thing the change has brought that I love:

It quickly separates the good players from the bad ones.


I agree that the more skilled players will quickly adapt and find better ways to manage new mechanics. That's what they do.

Keep in mind that relative to other games, WoW has a low number of class mechanics for a given class, even with the addition of Holy Power for Pally.

E.g. Warhammer Online's Warrior Priest (or Disciple of Khaine) has 3 mechanics to manage: AP (= WoW mana), Righteous Fury (= WoW Holy Power), and a 3rd mechanic called Morale (basically power-up abilities that are used the longer you are in combat).

I think the Holy Power mechanic rocks. It adds a layer of flexibility and control to the class.
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90 Human Paladin
10965

I just don't feel that UI watching for for Holy Power lends to fun. I feel a sense of loss while raiding now. It feels too topical and not enough immersion in the raid while watching holy power



This, this and this, thank you Olafson.


Ok, to the OP... I think you're wrong about "separating good players from bad" unless by "good" and "bad" you mean "people who use a mod to track holy power and those who don't".

Irritating as I found it, I just changed my addons to give me the same kind of warnings I get when on my feral druid or rogue. Huge, blaring messages (or aura effects) in the middle of the screen that can't be missed when I *really* need to dump power right now.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HOLY POWER FULL<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
for example, on MSBT

or a big glowing circle around my character on Power Auras. Or an addon that moves combo points so they're front and center, similar to how many death knights handle runes, or how my combo points show up on my other characters. Or some combination thereof.

I don't think that having this particular insight requires any sort of real "good" or "bad" paladin play, instead it leads to "better" play.

Also, not everyone likes combo points. Not everyone finds watching combo points a fun playstyle, its probably why not everyone has a rogue or feral druid (have you noticed how few rogues there actually are?) . So please don't just call people who either don't like a combo point playstyle or are not used to needing extra mods to track basic game mechanics "bad".
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
9785
For all the comments, concerns and criticisms we all have with the new mechanics changes to Paladins, I have to admit, there's *one* thing the change has brought that I love:

It quickly separates the good players from the bad ones.

I'll grant everyone has different learning curves and some people definitely learn faster than others. But even the slowest learners in the best players are constantly working and practising with their class and spec and looking up the theorycrafting and trying to get a handle on the mechanics.

And the bad players QQ. :P

Y/N?


From a Ret stand point I would have to say no, HoPo didn't raise the skill level of Ret is just raised the luck level. Bad players will continue playing bad their DPS really hasn't changed most people are in the same place they were.

Hell I have seen Shadowmourne wielding Rets pull 12K on DBS now and they somehow managed to pull in that same range before 4.X so for Ret nothing has changed.

Holy and Prot no idea can't comment on it as I don't play either spec.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
10875
Ok, to the OP... I think you're wrong about "separating good players from bad" unless by "good" and "bad" you mean "people who use a mod to track holy power and those who don't".


People are using a mod to track Holy Power? Just glance at the dongle after every ability that causes an increase in Holy Power, and verify you have 3 before you do anything with it. Not hard...
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85 Undead Mage
2635
In a PvE setting I would say that the really bad players will most likely suffer, but the rotation and concept behind it are not that difficult to learn.

The biggest reason to QQ for a ret paladin is in PvP, and it isn't our damage that we need to worry about but our lack of utility, which has always been the case. However now that they removed our defensive utility a HUGE light has been shined on our lack of offensive utility

Cleanse alone allowed Ret to participate in certain arena comps. Any healer that didn't have a defensive dispell would not have minded a ret paladin throwing out cleanses on sheeps and putting up hand of sacrifice/divine sacrifice to mitigate damage (and if you were good, break sheeps), Hand of Protection to bail out your healer, hand of freedom to coutner long kidney shots, etc etc

without this defensive utility we have little to bring to an arena team. I would think that the developers would notice that but it doesnt really look that way, to counter our problems they just give us more defensive utility (cleanse removing snares) than granting us new offensive utility ( gap closer/snare)
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Ok, to the OP... I think you're wrong about "separating good players from bad" unless by "good" and "bad" you mean "people who use a mod to track holy power and those who don't".


People are using a mod to track Holy Power? Just glance at the dongle after every ability that causes an increase in Holy Power, and verify you have 3 before you do anything with it. Not hard...


It's not hard. But moving the dongle so that you don't have to glance allows you to be more productive.

More on topic, I know that some Paladins like to claim that Holy Power makes the spec "harder" therefore implying that since they like it and excel at it, they must be a really really good paladin.... but you can still use CLCret to tell you what to press and be just as "good".
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85 Human Paladin
4565
In a PvE setting I would say that the really bad players will most likely suffer, but the rotation and concept behind it are not that difficult to learn.

The biggest reason to QQ for a ret paladin is in PvP, and it isn't our damage that we need to worry about but our lack of utility, which has always been the case. However now that they removed our defensive utility a HUGE light has been shined on our lack of offensive utility

Cleanse alone allowed Ret to participate in certain arena comps. Any healer that didn't have a defensive dispell would not have minded a ret paladin throwing out cleanses on sheeps and putting up hand of sacrifice/divine sacrifice to mitigate damage (and if you were good, break sheeps), Hand of Protection to bail out your healer, hand of freedom to coutner long kidney shots, etc etc

without this defensive utility we have little to bring to an arena team. I would think that the developers would notice that but it doesnt really look that way, to counter our problems they just give us more defensive utility (cleanse removing snares) than granting us new offensive utility ( gap closer/snare)


I love posts that bring logic to these forums. This is the problem, we want to be a viable utility in PvP and now that cleanse is bad and our freedom is meh, why would anyone want us in arenas?

Sure, we can pop wings and try to hammer someone but that doesn't change the purges, dispels, and spell steal problem... ugh.
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While I don't necessarily disagree with this phenomenon, I also don't attribute it to these new mechanics specifically. More just the fact that they are new. That is to say, bad players will always adapt slowly. It has nothing to do with the new mechanics being more difficult or more complex, just that they are new.

Blizz could have changed it so Ret Paladins had 2 attacks; 1 does 6000% weapon damage, and the other causes your character to accidentally stab himself in the foot for 200% weapon damage. You would still be able to make the exact same observation as you'd still find bad players spamming the second attack because they didn't bother to read the tooltip, or "they like that playstyle".

*edit for paragraphs
Edited by Baraq on 11/19/2010 4:27 PM PST
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85 Human Paladin
6435
For all the comments, concerns and criticisms we all have with the new mechanics changes to Paladins, I have to admit, there's *one* thing the change has brought that I love:

It quickly separates the good players from the bad ones.

I'll grant everyone has different learning curves and some people definitely learn faster than others. But even the slowest learners in the best players are constantly working and practising with their class and spec and looking up the theorycrafting and trying to get a handle on the mechanics.

And the bad players QQ. :P

Y/N?


Big yes in terms of tanking.
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85 Human Warlock
8270
For all the comments, concerns and criticisms we all have with the new mechanics changes to Paladins, I have to admit, there's *one* thing the change has brought that I love:

It quickly separates the good players from the bad ones.

I'll grant everyone has different learning curves and some people definitely learn faster than others. But even the slowest learners in the best players are constantly working and practising with their class and spec and looking up the theorycrafting and trying to get a handle on the mechanics.

And the bad players QQ. :P

Y/N?


For tanking? Definitely!!! I have seen several paladins up and quit because their threat started sucking. Do a quick armory and you see:no reckoning/fast tanking weapon/low expertise/ect.

That said, i personally don't like the new system at all...even though i got KS on my paladin with it. But liking a system and adapting to it are two different things.

I'll be more explicit then, with what I've seen on Fizzcrank:

The best players I know quickly figured out the new abilities, rotations and mechanics to their class and spec(s). Some loved the changes, some hated it. Some hate the changes so much that their alts have become their mains. But all of them quickly figured out how to play it well. To the point where they raid now as though they've been playing with the new mechanics all along.

The worst players I know still don't have a rotation figured out, don't really understand how their abilities have changed, and blame the patch for their confusion. But then, these are usually the folks who won't/don't ask for help and refuse any advice that anyone offers.

And, of course, there is a large spectrum in between. I just noticed the divide open very quickly after the patch.

YMMV. I can't speak for all servers.


Yeah this is what i mean by liking the system and being able to adapt to it being very different.

I honestly dont see what is so hard about this system that it caused my paladin co-tank to quit his paladin rather than adapt. I have been slowly coaxing him to return promising him that if he gets the pvp weapon his threat would be better than my own.

Its just as easy as 96969. What is it about the new system that is so hard to some people. Is it that they being exposed to something new is so frightening that they become paralyzed with fear like a dear in the headlights?

I dont get it.
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