Realistic Ret Fixes for PvP

85 Human Paladin
11205
No I want it so when they cast a dispell they get a stacking debuff. The first dispell would cost what it does now... 600mana then second would cost 1200, then 1800, 2400... So people who spam their dispell key will be punished while those who effectively time their dispells get the most benefit.
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85 Undead Mage
2635
We don't need a snare.

The rest of the ideas are often suggested and are good ideas.


I HATE posts like this

WHY don't we need a snare. Don't just say it like its a fact. Explain yourself
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We don't need a snare.

The rest of the ideas are often suggested and are good ideas.


I HATE posts like this

WHY don't we need a snare. Don't just say it like its a fact. Explain yourself


Because pretty much every other melee brings it for us. It's redundant in team play. What do we bring that other melee can't? We can heal, and make them immune to snares/roots. In a team setting, if your healer gets CC'd and your Warrior needs a heal, guess who's ideal for the job? And said warrior can snare. Replace warrior with rogue or death knight, and to a lesser extent feral and Enhancement, but the result is the same.
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90 Human Paladin
0
We don't need a snare.

The rest of the ideas are often suggested and are good ideas.


I HATE posts like this

WHY don't we need a snare. Don't just say it like its a fact. Explain yourself


I have explained my position on this matter many times. (It is not just my position but the position of many Rets.)

To sum up, and I won't be arguing this point in this thread, every other melee has a snare and in group PvP a snare for us would be completely redundant. If Rets are going to be vying for more pvp utility let it be something that we don't already have plenty of in group pvp.
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85 Undead Mage
2635
you guys realize that melee/caster/healer is a popular setup in 3v3


maybe there is a reason EVERY other melee brings a snare

blizz stated they wanted the defensive utility/melee dps to go away
Edited by Cyanotix on 11/20/2010 2:51 AM PST
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you guys realize that melee/caster/healer is a popular setup in 3v3


maybe there is a reason EVERY other melee brings a snare

blizz stated they wanted the defensive utility/melee dps to go away


Blizzard also said they aren't balancing totally around arenas . RBGs will be their focus this time. And In a 10-10 group, you will have more than one melee DPS. So looking at this from a purely arena perspective is incorrect.

Blizzard did indeed say they wanted to move away from Defense DPS. However then they realized "Well crap, what can we give Retribution that would help hem, and isn't completely ripped off of another class AND sticks with the flavor of the class." Charge doesn't. Paladins have never been known for our mobilty. We're slow moving juggernauts of retribution. Long Arm is close, but it could use a little touch up and even that is pushing it. So they kept the defensive model and gave us more backloaded damage And while people are afraid of 3.0 burst, I'd rather have high damage, heals and retain my classes flavor, rather than be a warrior with healing and holy damage.
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Before everyone and their dog got run-speed enhancers paladins were known for mobility. Not in the 'gap closer/opener' way, but in that they ran faster than almost everyone else and were hard to snare (Freedom had a higher uptime than now as well, and there were fewer 'free' snares and roots). Since LK's release our base 115% run-speed has been about the norm, and just about everyone has a good snare or root, so we seem slow are easy to snare and kite.

Once were were inexorable juggernauts (that weren't too dangerous to allow in melee), then we became fragile and easy to kite super-bursters that had to be controlled or you died. That being too unfun we next became fragile, easy, to kite, and not very bursty. Now we are a bit harder to kite, and for up to 20s in 2 mins way bursty (but remain squishy). I guess we're now enhancement, if we're ret.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
6630

To sum up, and I won't be arguing this point in this thread, every other melee has a snare and in group PvP a snare for us would be completely redundant. If Rets are going to be vying for more pvp utility let it be something that we don't already have plenty of in group pvp.


I think "flavor" is an excellent argument for not giving paladins a charge like ability. I don't think its very compelling when you go to a snare. Being unique shouldn't come at the cost of being gimp.

Paladins are the only melee class in the game right now that can't dismount a mounted player. The latency analogy for feral druids is also very fitting for Ret paladins - all someone has to do is simply run away from us - 15% movement speed isn't fast enough to counter that.

To the argument that other classes bring a snare:
Clearly being in a group you are more powerful. I don't need to heal myself if I run with a healer. By that argument why did we need a gap closer if other melee have them?
That doesn't change the fact that every melee in the game right now has access to a snare. Are we difficult to snare - yes as long as HoF doesn't get dispelled. Once its dispelled our mobility is probably worse than any other melee. With our sub par gap closer we need a snare to help us stay in melee range. DG/Charge etc. give you a guarantee in melee range - Long arm doesn't do that.
Edited by Telarin on 11/20/2010 9:26 AM PST
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85 Human Paladin
10555
The biggest thing holding back Ret currently (imo) is being balanced around AW. It just needs to go or be reworked to be something like Death Wish. Blizzard's hot fix to Ret DPS of increasing HoW damage by 300% was also pretty fail and an issue that should be rectified.


You mean you don't like the two minute cannon blast Paladin? It's more fun than the two minute mage.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
6630
you don't want to be unstoppable, and impossible to escape from. Sadly, a snare brings it too close to that. You would have to give up something to give casters time to actually cast on you.

Personally, I'd go with make HoF not self castable, since you run fast when you judge, its still decent in PvE, and give you the snare.
.


I agree that we don't want to be unstoppable and impossible to escape from. Thats why I suggested nerfing the duration of HoF. If we were to lose HoF we would need an acceptable gap closer that we currently don't have.

No HoF = free hk currently
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