Hellscream Raid Progression (Legacy)

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85 Worgen Death Knight
13375
Funny someone reported the original post. Haters gonna hate anything.
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100 Worgen Druid
10450
Why is the content section still empty? Guess I could help fix that.

Throne of the Four Winds:
Conclave of Wind
Al'Akir

Blackwing Descent:
Magmaw
Omnitron Defense System
Maloriak
Atramedes
Chimaeron
Nefarian

Bastion of Twilight:
Halfus Wyrmbreaker
Valiona and Theralion
Twilight Ascendants
Cho'gall
Sinestra (H)
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85 Human Paladin
11600
celerity has conclave of wind down
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85 Human Paladin
8860
Play has killed:

Magmaw
Omnitron Defense System
Halfus Wyrmbreaker
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85 Human Paladin
11600
Celerity slays Omnitron Defense System
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85 Human Paladin
11600
Well, you've gone and done it. You've opened a can of worms I'm sure we all hoped would remain sealed forever.

Observant posters may notice Celerity is no longer listed in this progression thread, this is because our two kills were on 10man. I'm aware the "thread rules" specifically state 25man only, but I really hoped this was just an oversight from copying and pasting so much. It seems I was too hopeful. We may, or may not, continue producing only 10 man kills, but I will go to bat for every other guild out there too even though it may not even apply to us soon.

I'm also aware that the body of this thread says not to complain here, but since I've been so thoroughly disrespected I see no reason not to pay that disrespect back.

I'm here to dispel a few myths. This isn't personal, although everyone from the particular guild that manages this thread - in my experience, at least - are all extremely unpleasant people who should be avoided at all costs. I suspect the recent removal of our guild from the list has more going on than just the 10/25 dichotomy, But I digress. On to the myths.

Myth #1: 25s are harder
The first of many stupid ideas. 10 and 25 now are equivalent. Period. End of discussion. Some fights are actually harder on 10man (Conclave of Wind springs to mind). I'm sure the mechanics of something like Al'Akir would make 10 easier than 25. But on average the difficulty is the same - they even use the same damage values for boss spells and require about the same average DPS per person to beat. The rewards are identical. The achievements are identical. The encounters are identical. What if the realm firsts are obtained on 10man? Will they still not be listed here?

Myth #2: Tracking 10 man kills will be too much work
Another ignorant thought. Read what I wrote above. It means that there won't really be that many more 10 than 25 kills. In fact there will probably be less. The fights are hard, they require coordination and skill, and there's nearly no mechanical difference between the two raid types. Furthermore, when we get around to tracking only heroic kills, my statement will be even more true. I can't imagine random PUGs being able to handle the mechanics of these fights, not any time soon, and heroic modes are even further from the grasp of the random/unwashed masses. So it's actually going to be more work to ignore 10mans - Especially since I'm posting in this thread for every kill we get.

Myth #3: Doing 25s makes me better in some immeasurable, inexplicable way, neener neener
The pinnacle of ignorance, the idea that between two parties, the party that you are part of is superior and the party you are not a part of should be denied the same basic rights you enjoy (so that you can maintain belief of your superiority, since they are oppressed).

Talking about rights makes it seem like something serious you might see on the news, and of course this is just a game, but if you think about it it's true. You have two groups of people who complete the same challenges, experience the same hardships, but one group of people gets the spotlight while the other gets shunned - And the only reason for this is essentially based in bigotry. The idea that your team is better because it's what you prefer, and the other team is irrelevant and should be oppressed, is something only the douchebags of history have subscribed to.


I tried to inject a bit of humor into this post but I'm serious about the main point. Hopefully I'll be running 25mans soon enough and it won't matter to me, but let this be a stepping stone for anyone doing 10mans because they're equal to 25s. Anyone who thinks different needs to pull their head out of the sand. We're not in Northrend anymore.
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90 Worgen Priest
16245
If you care so much make a 10m raid progression thread. ;P
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90 Human Warrior
13645
Mono, stop being extremely unpleasant.
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85 Night Elf Druid
6455
inb4: lol10m, link celerity alg post, l2read, ktf play circle jerk, general celerity bash.
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90 Human Priest
10470
12/14/2010 5:37 PMPosted by Ginoweinberg
inb4: lol10m, link celerity alg post, l2read, ktf play circle jerk, general celerity bash.


You seem to have forgotten our os103d blueberry adventures already. No talking about the cheesers that used the strat after us tho!
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85 Human Paladin
8860
Play has killed Maloraik and the Conclave of Wind. Missing Magmaw on our list from last week's kill.
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90 Night Elf Druid
19510
12/14/2010 3:27 PMPosted by Pawpurr
I'm here to dispel a few myths. This isn't personal, although everyone from the particular guild that manages this thread - in my experience, at least - are all extremely unpleasant people who should be avoided at all costs. I suspect the recent removal of our guild from the list has more going on than just the 10/25 dichotomy, But I digress. On to the myths.


Let's ignore the fact that Celerity once had an open recruitment policy that every app from SnM was worth 1000g, we weren't worth avoiding then were we.

There's no animosity here. I'm not really sure where the ill will towards us via Celerity has come from, perhaps it's the fact your roots are from SnM? I'm not entirely sure, from our end it's been nothing more then friendly competition since you've been the closet to us in progression most of Wrath.

Anyways, as to the rest of your rant about 10s vs 25s, going to be brutally honest, I don't really care. You could very well be right about them being just as hard, although I think Arthas wants a word with you, that fight just could never be as hard on 10s as 25s.

Really though, I don't see this proverbial "can of worms" you mentioned, it's just you, and if you're that unhappy, you're welcomed to make a new thread.
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90 Night Elf Druid
19510
Also, I didn't delete you from the thread because of who you were, I just didn't think you'd post a 10 man kill and I took your word for it rather then check. If anything, that's a compliment.
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85 Night Elf Druid
6455
implying i cheesed a boss i wasn't there for and didn't kill it normally? Also who said anything about cheesing? but its k, i know you are just a sad little person :(



afk derping. derpderpderpderpderpderp
Edited by Ginoweinberg on 12/14/2010 10:55 PM PST
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85 Human Paladin
11600

Let's ignore the fact that Celerity once had an open recruitment policy that every app from SnM was worth 1000g, we weren't worth avoiding then were we.


That's not true to my knowledge. For a while we paid our members for finding recruits but it didn't matter where they came from and it wasn't 1000g. Maybe it was before my time.


There's no animosity here. I'm not really sure where the ill will towards us via Celerity has come from, perhaps it's the fact your roots are from SnM? I'm not entirely sure, from our end it's been nothing more then friendly competition since you've been the closet to us in progression most of Wrath.


Glad to hear we're all friends. Personally, every SnM person i've interacted with in game has been unpleasant in personality and/or performance. Sorry if i've never met your best and brightest. My roots aren't in SnM and I'm sure there's plenty of people I don't know. Vetra's pretty unpleasant too. Not the point anyway.


Anyways, as to the rest of your rant about 10s vs 25s, going to be brutally honest, I don't really care. You could very well be right about them being just as hard, although I think Arthas wants a word with you, that fight just could never be as hard on 10s as 25s.


We're not in northrend anymore. Old content is irrelevant. Adapt to the new expansion where 10s and 25s are by design equal, instead of using old examples which were intentionally designed not to be equal.


Really though, I don't see this proverbial "can of worms" you mentioned, it's just you, and if you're that unhappy, you're welcomed to make a new thread.


I'd rather not fragment the server community into two threads, And I don't see why you would either. There's really no reason to separate them other than your being stubborn. Guess it leads us back to the ignorance thing. Whether or not Celerity keeps doing 10 mans doesn't really matter, because they ARE equal there will be other competitive 10man guilds that spring up.

Now, we could play nice and let everyone participate or we could shun half the raiding population because they don't play the way you like to. I personally like to include people as it breeds healthy competition. Guess the ball is in your court though.
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85 Night Elf Druid
6455
We're not in northrend anymore. Old content is irrelevant. Adapt to the new expansion where 10s and 25s are by design equal, instead of using old examples which were intentionally designed not to be equal.


1 week into cata and you're an expert in raiding? wasn't aware that both 10 and 25m were farmed on heroic already and people had the same opinion. But you do have a degree in i'mrightyou'rewrong, can't beat that D:

Now, we could play nice and let everyone participate or we could shun half the raiding population because they don't play the way you like to. I personally like to include people as it breeds healthy competition. Guess the ball is in your court though.


It's his thread? he can do w/e he wants with it. Not his fault he wanted to make a post about 25m kills and some casual has a problem with it. /shrug
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85 Human Paladin
11600
I don't think i'm gonna clutter this thread with more responses in the future but these were particularly silly so I had to.


1 week into cata and you're an expert in raiding? wasn't aware that both 10 and 25m were farmed on heroic already and people had the same opinion. But you do have a degree in i'mrightyou'rewrong, can't beat that D:


Blizz says they're designed equal for Cata. Doesn't matter what you or I think. If they aren't equal then blizz failed. You'd have to be living under a rock for the last year not to have seen the many design philosophy blue posts stating just that.


It's his thread? he can do w/e he wants with it. Not his fault he wanted to make a post about 25m kills and some casual has a problem with it. /shrug


Calling me casual is pretty funny. It's his thread, and that's why I made an attempt to convince him to make it better, rather than accept segregation. I read the old thread once or twice a week for two years and I really would like to continue doing so, so I hope my words will be considered.

k thats it, no more replies, thanks for reading
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85 Human Paladin
8860
Play has downed Maloriak on Tuesday evening.
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100 Undead Rogue
10330
Doesn't it take a lot more effort to get 25 people together to raid and to make sure each one of those dumb #@%#ers is doing what they are supposed to be doing? You can't balance that !@**.
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