So zealotry

85 Human Paladin
7195
what if zealotry turned our auras into something selfish? So it added effects to our auras that affect only the Ret paladin based on what aura is active. (I posted this in another thread, but I felt it might need its own for discussion)

Zealotry
Requires 1-3 HoPow to activate
1.5 min cooldown

In addition to their normal effects your auras now have a secondary self-only effect when zealotry is activated, lasting 3 seconds per holy power:

Resistance aura - "collects" 50% of the damage of damaging spells cast on you and at the end of its duration unleashes shining raidiance, healing you for the amount of damage absorbed(capped at 50% of the paladins maximum health)

Devo Aura - decreases damage taken by 30% of your armor value for the duration

Ret aura - applies a damage "collection" for 30% of damage done for the duration and unleases that damage as holy damage on your next crusader strike. (capped at say 50% of the paladins maximum health so as not to have a situation where a paladin does like 150,000 damage in one swing in PVE situations where you might take a lot of AOE from a boss)

Conc aura - (I really have nothing for this one because I don't see ret using it really ever, so any suggestions here would be fine)

Numbers could be tweaked, but I would much rather have something like that than the current zealotry. It makes you have to be aware of the active aura before you pop it and allows you to choose between some extra damage, extra healing or a bit of survivability.

One thing I need to clarify is ret aura and resistance aura don't decrease the incoming damage, they just "record" 30%/50% of the damage done to you and then once that duration is up it unleashes it the next time you hit CS as holy damage or as a heal at the end of the duration.

It certainly makes paying attention to what aura is up more important. It also isn't terribly overpowering considering the cooldown on it and the amount of HoPow spent for full duration.
Edited by Eladrin on 11/18/2010 8:53 PM PST
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80 Human Paladin
5805
I got one:

Zealotry
30 Second cooldown

Your next Crusader Strike generates an additional 2 Holy Power.

- Allows for on demand full powered abilities. Great for PVP
- Awesome way to get the ball rolling for PVE
Edited by Lightswinger on 11/18/2010 9:03 PM PST
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85 Human Paladin
7195
I got one:

Zealotry
30 Second cooldown

Your next Crusader Strike generates an additional 2 Holy Power.


not only no, but why. We generate enough HoPow to be absolutely fine and devaluing our mastery more by making zealotry push more HoPow really makes little sense. If they ever fix our mastery fine, but until then having extra holy power from CS every 30 seconds is so stupidly lackluster I hope you aren't serious.
Edited by Eladrin on 11/18/2010 9:05 PM PST
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7 Tauren Shaman
0
until it actually becomes good, what are we to do with it?

when the patch hits it'll be off the gcd and not consume hopo, but require 3. so i figured i'd macro it in at the start of my TV macro and forget about it.
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85 Human Paladin
7195
until it actually becomes good, what are we to do with it?

when the patch hits it'll be off the gcd and not consume hopo, but require 3. so i figured i'd macro it in at the start of my TV macro and forget about it.


I think that is kind of my point, lets make it good instead of a complete waste of time. Last I heard zealotry and even inq. were such small DPS gains as to be pretty much unnoticable. So lets make zealotry do something noticable.

I would trade a single TV every 1.5 min for those abilities and the ability to make a aura swap to a useful aura (not on the GCD) and then pop zealotry for a benefit that is noticable.
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85 Human Paladin
7905
until it actually becomes good, what are we to do with it?

when the patch hits it'll be off the gcd and not consume hopo, but require 3. so i figured i'd macro it in at the start of my TV macro and forget about it.



Zealotry is about a 1% dps gain and Inquisition is about a 3-5% gain if used correctly and at the right time. What to do with them?

Well since blizzard has refused to post anything saying that they fell our concerns and/or are working on a fix for our mastery (since our mastery is terrible) do the right thing. Don't spec into it. maybe when the entire community stops using the useless ability that is Zealotry they will change or fix something.
Edited by Evilgopher on 11/18/2010 9:11 PM PST
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85 Human Paladin
9670
Zealotry - Each special strike you deal will cause another strike for 100% of the damage. Cannot occur more than once every 6 sec. Lasts 20 seconds.

You'll gain about 4 strikes for free.
Edited by Sessa on 11/18/2010 9:22 PM PST
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85 Human Paladin
7195
Zealotry - Removes the cooldown of Crusader Strike for 20 seconds and generates 3 holy power each time. 2min cd.

- Increases HP generation
- Increases DPS
- Great for PvP burst


why is everyone so concentrated on zealotry doing something to HoPow generation and making our mastery (since I have to assume it is staying) even worse and making DP and it clash???
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80 Human Paladin
5805
Experimenting with our DPS resource is a good thing imo. We are going to have this mechanic for a while.

You're also too focused on the clashing between this and our Mastery. Our mastery is going to change one way or another, that's a certainty.


I don't think your initial idea was bad, I just think we need to work with our resource system (the recent Light of Dawn change means the Devs agree)
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85 Human Paladin
9670
Zealotry - Removes the cooldown of Crusader Strike for 20 seconds and generates 3 holy power each time. 2min cd.

- Increases HP generation
- Increases DPS
- Great for PvP burst


why is everyone so concentrated on zealotry doing something to HoPow generation and making our mastery (since I have to assume it is staying) even worse and making DP and it clash???


Sorry I edited it. I only came up with that after a minute of thinking.
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85 Human Paladin
7195
Experimenting with our DPS resource is a good thing imo. We are going to have this mechanic for a while.

You're also too focused on the clashing between this and our Mastery. Our mastery is going to change one way or another, that's a certainty.


I don't think your initial idea was bad, I just think we need to work with our resource system (the recent Light of Dawn change means the Devs agree)


I completely disagree that we need to stay in a box the devs have defined. Outside the box thinking is better than sitting in their box and rehashing the same ideas about HoPow gen over and over.

Its also not just about our mastery being wasted by zealotry generating 3 HP, its also about divine purpose being completely devalued if it does that and clashing horribly.

if zealotry had nothing to do with HoPow we would have CS + DP for HoPow generation, that seems like plenty enough things to tweak for generating HoPow for the devs and the mastery procs providing a full power attack as well.

Even were mastery to change to something else all you need to do is either add another attack to the 100% HoPow generation list or tweak DP for everything on the list to maintain the DPS from 3 HoPow attacks.

Granted I think our SoT ramp up needs some help in the form of stacking from CS and stuff, but if zealotry is so bad because of what it already does, making it better at what it already does does not fix zealotry.

HoPow gen = CS + DP
Utility = zealotry
T10 2PC rotation shake up = mastery


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85 Human Paladin
7195

Sorry I edited it. I only came up with that after a minute of thinking.


Why do we need another ONLY DPS cooldown?


FTR I am not spec'd into zealotry atm.
Edited by Eladrin on 11/18/2010 9:32 PM PST
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85 Human Paladin
7905
Zealotry - Removes the cooldown of Crusader Strike for 20 seconds and generates 3 holy power each time. 2min cd.

- Increases HP generation
- Increases DPS
- Great for PvP burst



Only thing i can think of for Zealotry is to have it do something like this.
Zealotry- Your Melee Attacks cause you to deal 15% (arbitrary # for the sake of it) additional damage as holy damage. Lasts 20 Seconds. Costs 3 Ho Po but does not consume them.

then again if it did something like this it could just be added into GoAK or AW or Inquisition. Ideally InQ should be refreshed by TV and GoAK could Contain a Zealotry effect as described above.
Edited by Evilgopher on 11/18/2010 9:34 PM PST
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85 Human Paladin
7195
then again if it did something like this it could just be added into GoAK or AW or Inquisition. Ideally InQ should be refreshed by TV and GoAK could Contain a Zealotry effect as described above.


exactly, so why keep making it do things we already have skills and talents that do similar things.

Why keep thinking in their box.

Zealotry already generates holy power, we already know that clashes with DP and is not a noticable DPS increase. Making it better at that doesn't make it a better skill to use.

a 3rd DPS cooldown is not a great skill to use, a cooldown that has options based on things we are using that has a potential to increase DPS on the other had is more interesting.

I always see people complain none of our abilities and talents have synergy, do you think that zealotry doing something selfish to our auras provides symetry and thought? Do you think that it doing something to HoPow gen engenders the same?
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85 Human Paladin
7905
then again if it did something like this it could just be added into GoAK or AW or Inquisition. Ideally InQ should be refreshed by TV and GoAK could Contain a Zealotry effect as described above.


exactly, so why keep making it do things we already have skills and talents that do similar things.

Why keep thinking in their box.

Zealotry already generates holy power, we already know that clashes with DP and is not a noticable DPS increase. Making it better at that doesn't make it a better skill to use.

a 3rd DPS cooldown is not a great skill to use, a cooldown that has options based on things we are using that has a potential to increase DPS on the other had is more interesting.

I always see people complain none of our abilities and talents have synergy, do you think that zealotry doing something selfish to our auras provides symmetry and thought? Do you think that it doing something to HoPow gen engenders the same?



i agree. a lot off these abilities need to be combined in a decent way. we don't need 3 CD's 2 of which are not very big gains (zealotry=1%, GoAK = 300dps) too drunk to calculate Goak. in my current "state" the best i could come up with was improved holy damage on our abilities which would improve InQ but having it gain additional HoPo is not good design with our current mastery(which we need a new one regardless of Zealotry) and DP. but seeing as how were getting our talents reset due to massive changes in our talent trees I'm hoping its for the changes I've been waiting for.
Edited by Evilgopher on 11/18/2010 9:51 PM PST
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1 Human Warrior
0
Zealotry 1/1 talent

1.25 min cooldown .5 sec cast

Seeking Retribution, the paladin rushes his target knocking them back 3 yards. (Something RP)


Glyph of Zealotry

Zealotry no longer knocks back, but now rewards 2 Holy Power on contact.
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80 Human Paladin
5805
Well, I think you've made some interesting points Eladrin, at least for the most part.

I will say this though: my concept DOES fit the model of not being purely a selfish ability, as you can use it for Word of Glory on a teammate. Getting Inquisition up quick is always a nice QoL aspect

Anyways, good luck with Z
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85 Tauren Paladin
9805
I like the idea, but fewer cooldowns please. :/
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85 Human Paladin
7195
Zealotry 1/1 talent

1.25 min cooldown .5 sec cast

Seeking Retribution, the paladin rushes his target knocking them back 3 yards. (Something RP)


Glyph of Zealotry

Zealotry no longer knocks back, but now rewards 2 Holy Power on contact.


a charge on a long cooldown and you want it to generate HoPow? I am not saying our gap closer is good at this point, but a long cooldown one with no snare is no better.

Elidra I get that you want to be functional, but I would rather be functional without a bunch of ways to force ourselves to get a "combo point" being necessary. It leads to too much waste.

so many people are stuck looking at this talent as something that HAS to force HoPow gen somehow. I think the 2(3) knobs we have for HoPow generation (CS, DP and PoJ for PvP) is enough for the devs to make sure we can do enough DPS.

Why can't we have a talent that finally does something good for just us? without being forced to have it be another DPS cooldown.

In addition to my idea in the OP about zealotry:

- GoAK needs to either be a decent cooldown or it needs to go. Maybe it needs to be rolled into AW, so that way it can stay at its current level of damage.
- AW + Hammer spam needs to go, I dislike this band-aid a lot.
- LAoTL needs to be at 8 yards with no max range because judgement is self limiting in that respect.
- Hand of Light, perhaps it can do: Allows the duration of your inquisition to be refreshed by your templars verdict and converts 5% of TV damage to holy damage.

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