What guilds are staying 25 man?

86 Human Rogue
11095
I've always thought 25m raids were MUCH MUCH MUCH easier, seems to be a slight buffer in most encounters that lets a healer or dps screw up, with much less penalty than a 10m.

10mans in 25man gear are quite easy - 10 mans in beginning raid gear however...

25mans are MUCH easier.

That's why all these guilds are staying 25m (Cuz its easier, not cuz its OMG HARDCORE)


Spoken like someone who's never done hard-mode content. I'm not going to bother going into any more detail. You have zero experience, therefore your opinion counts for just as much.
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85 Gnome Mage
5530


That's an issue derived from having primarily 25m gear. The 10 mans were tuned assuming you'd only have 10m gear.

Edit : @ Arias
Edited by Gaptooth on 11/27/2010 8:29 PM PST
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85 Gnome Mage
5530

Spoken like someone who's never done hard-mode content. I'm not going to bother going into any more detail. You have zero experience, therefore your opinion counts for just as much.


Actually, believe it or not this toon is on a PvP server to PvP (Shocker!)

I am in Call of Dusk on Area 52 on my toon that I raid endgame content with(PvE server)

http://callofdusk.guildlaunch.com/

Far far ahead in progression timing than Inertia ( Sorry I still love you guys anyway )

So I guess I could be the one acting like a arrogant jerk to you huh ?

I'll pass on that though, and if you'd like to actually make some sort of coherent point instead, I am quite open to that :)

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90 Draenei Warrior
0
I am pretty sure we will still be doing 25 in Cata. As to the difficulty between 10 and 25 I think the hardest thing has always been getting 25 people that are competent enough and can devote the time to complete the raids that is the hardest part.
Edited by Arluz on 11/27/2010 10:29 PM PST
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85 Night Elf Druid
0
Whats up arc, stop by vent man, I need to make fun of your hurricanes =p
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80 Night Elf Hunter
1340
10 mans are given the luxury of being able to pick the players they want.
25 mans usually have to drag dead weight thus complicating the fight even further.
Kara was somewhat difficult on release, but it was still miles less difficult than any 25 man raid in bc. The same could be said for Wrath, look at 10 man ulduar compared to 25, look at how many guilds got 10 man firefighter, then look how many got 25.


still theres a difference what your looking at. If your looking at the people who do 25s and do 10 mans yes thats going to be easy, but for the people who are strictly doing 10 mans that is freaking hard. I remember before 4.0.1 patch came out there was only 1 guild in the world that downed Heroic Lich King strictly (not touching 25 man content). One site to check strict progress is guildox.com

wowprogress.com says there are 1073 guilds who have down heroic Lich King on 25 man.
guildox.com says there are 19 guilds who have down heroic Lich King on 10 man strict.

You never know what cataclsym will hold though.
Edited by Ciklone on 11/28/2010 2:59 PM PST
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86 Blood Elf Hunter
5425
Blah, lost some of my posts in a 72 hour ban.

Anyways... we might go to 25 man IF we get reliable people. Otherwise, Victory or Valhalla will stay at 10 man.

Problem is, getting 25 reliable people can be like herding cats sometimes.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7325
If anyone has watched any of the cata raid videos on youtube (I personally watched TotalBiscuit's) you would know a lot of the raid encounters will be very movement-oriented. You will have to move out of the way, you can't X yards from anyone else, etc. Given that, then at least on paper anyway 10s stands to be easier since you can spread out more.

As for the actual difficulty it is hard to say. I think the real reason there are less 25 achievements done than 10 is simply because people are lazy and it's much easier to get 9 other people to know the fight and get it done than it is to get 24 other people to do the same thing.
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86 Blood Elf Hunter
5425
If anyone has watched any of the cata raid videos on youtube (I personally watched TotalBiscuit's) you would know a lot of the raid encounters will be very movement-oriented. You will have to move out of the way, you can't X yards from anyone else, etc. Given that, then at least on paper anyway 10s stands to be easier since you can spread out more.

As for the actual difficulty it is hard to say. I think the real reason there are less 25 achievements done than 10 is simply because people are lazy and it's much easier to get 9 other people to know the fight and get it done than it is to get 24 other people to do the same thing.



That's what I was thinking as well. TB is usually pretty good with his info.

And that's what I was thinking as well. I can get more of my guild doing 10's than I can 25's.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7325
I was always under the impression all during WotLK 25s were more like 21s because it felt like 3 - 4 people could %!@@ around and really not do their job, usually DPS, and still win. You tried that in 10s and if one or two people died then it was pretty much a wipe as well as knowing full well who was standing in stuff. In 25s, even if people die and there was a wipe there was enough people to spread the blame out enough to avoid finding the actual ones responsible.

I dunno, I plan to start in 10s and if people want to w can start gathering more for 25s. Not sure how recruitment will go post-cata when people are going to be all up in arms to get guild levels up ASAP for all the perks/benefits.
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86 Human Rogue
11095
Actually, believe it or not this toon is on a PvP server to PvP (Shocker!)

I am in Call of Dusk on Area 52 on my toon that I raid endgame content with(PvE server)

http://callofdusk.guildlaunch.com/

Far far ahead in progression timing than Inertia ( Sorry I still love you guys anyway )

So I guess I could be the one acting like a arrogant jerk to you huh ?

I'll pass on that though, and if you'd like to actually make some sort of coherent point instead, I am quite open to that :)


Sorry for the late response. Short attention span and the memory of a goldfish can do that to you.

I'm just going to go ahead and dismiss you as another guy claiming to be in a better guild on a better server (without naming your toon in said guild, I notice). You sure wouldn't be the first to try to pull that one. I'm not the one hiding on a "pvp toon on a pvp server (shocker!)".

And apparently two weeks is "far far ahead" now. Whatever. The coherent points were made earlier in this thread, and I don't feel like reiterating them just to keep this thing going.
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86 Human Rogue
11095
10 mans are given the luxury of being able to pick the players they want.
25 mans usually have to drag dead weight thus complicating the fight even further.
Kara was somewhat difficult on release, but it was still miles less difficult than any 25 man raid in bc. The same could be said for Wrath, look at 10 man ulduar compared to 25, look at how many guilds got 10 man firefighter, then look how many got 25.


still theres a difference what your looking at. If your looking at the people who do 25s and do 10 mans yes thats going to be easy, but for the people who are strictly doing 10 mans that is freaking hard. I remember before 4.0.1 patch came out there was only 1 guild in the world that downed Heroic Lich King strictly (not touching 25 man content). One site to check strict progress is guildox.com

wowprogress.com says there are 1073 guilds who have down heroic Lich King on 25 man.
guildox.com says there are 19 guilds who have down heroic Lich King on 10 man strict.

You never know what cataclsym will hold though.


That's not because 10man strict was actually harder. It's because very few people in the world were willing to restrict themselves to half of the end-game pve content just to make a leaderboard that nobody actually cared about.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7325
I also think the disparity between 10s and 25s can also be social as well as actual encounter difficulty. Most normal people have nine friends, and with ten players it's a lot easier to get to know one another and how they play and do things. Once you hit 25s though, you increase that number by 150% and at that point it's a lot harder to know everyone. As well in the thick of it if someone doesn't know what to do they will enter a "follow the herd" mentality with so many people around.

Also you have to factor (at least presently, pre-Cata) the fact the player-to-loot ratio is higher in than 10s than 25s. Each person has a greater chance of getting loot in a 10 than they would in a 25, and that could affect their overall morale and attitude. And even then it doesn't factor in the whole favoritism/clique aspect of it. 25s are much more likely to evolve little social cliques comprised of better players or players who will simply "look out for each other". I know one guild on my old realm where the main RL was forced to carry a terrible boomkin because that boomkin was the GF on the guild leader, and I have been mobbed and seen former guildies mobbed by people who group together to oust them from the guild or bullying.

The disparity between 10s and 25s aren't always game/raid-related.
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90 Human Rogue
14895
I know one guild on my old realm where the main RL was forced to carry a terrible boomkin because that boomkin was the GF on the guild leader, and I have been mobbed and seen former guildies mobbed by people who group together to oust them from the guild or bullying.


This is something that could happen in either a 10 or 25 man guild with bad leadership.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7325
I know one guild on my old realm where the main RL was forced to carry a terrible boomkin because that boomkin was the GF on the guild leader, and I have been mobbed and seen former guildies mobbed by people who group together to oust them from the guild or bullying.


This is something that could happen in either a 10 or 25 man guild with bad leadership.


Not gonna lie, they were I think #3 or #4 in Progression on their server but there is a LOT of them. They tend to run 2 - 3 25s and double that in 10s, but he carries people in his guild raids all the time.
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85 Worgen Mage
4410
so here i was comming into a thread to see what guilds wee still raiding...... only to find ppl QQing about how hard this game is lolol
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85 Orc Warrior
11165
Actually, believe it or not this toon is on a PvP server to PvP (Shocker!)

I am in Call of Dusk on Area 52 on my toon that I raid endgame content with(PvE server)...


I used to be on A52. Sad to see you guys fall apart for HLK :(
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100 Goblin Shaman
19065
Have you guys tried doing 10 man raids without the 25 man version of gear? What about starting the newest 10 man raid with the previous 10 man gear?

But you are right for the most part.

10 mans will almost always be easier than the 25 man version. Mostly because of the amount of room to work with, and the fact that you will have a hard time getting every single buff / debuff with a 10 man group makeup.
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85 Gnome Warrior
8200
10 mans will almost always be easier than the 25 man version. Mostly because of the amount of room to work with, and the fact that you will have a hard time getting every single buff / debuff with a 10 man group makeup.


Yeah... no. They actually made it TOO easy to get every buff/debuff into a 10m raid with the changes to buffing.
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