Any official word out there on meta changes?

90 Blood Elf Paladin
14945
I would say that a lot of us physical DPS are wondering what is going on with the Relentless and Chaotic meta gems on the PTR and beta. Are they really intended to be more blue than red which makes them a DPS loss to use?
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90 Dwarf Hunter
14760
Even if they decide that more blue than red is a good meta requirement and keep it for Cata, I really hope they change their minds about modifying the old metas. Having to swap around our gems or swap out our metas for the short time we'll be wearing our old gear is a pain.

Perhaps just put a limit on it so you can't use the older metas with 3% crit damage on items above ilevel 300 or whatever like the belt buckle? That'd achieve the same goal of keeping us from just reverting to using the old meta in new content while avoiding a last minute regem for a lot of players.
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Meta gems requiring specific gems is silly in the first place. Either it's a blatant DPS loss, which is stupid; or it's requirement isn't even noticed because you would gem that way regardless, which is equally stupid.
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100 Human Paladin
15075
Even if they decide that more blue than red is a good meta requirement and keep it for Cata, I really hope they change their minds about modifying the old metas. Having to swap around our gems or swap out our metas for the short time we'll be wearing our old gear is a pain.

Perhaps just put a limit on it so you can't use the older metas with 3% crit damage on items above ilevel 300 or whatever like the belt buckle? That'd achieve the same goal of keeping us from just reverting to using the old meta in new content while avoiding a last minute regem for a lot of players.
Most already regemmed. Reverting the changes now will just cause people to have to regem a second time, for what gain? Just keep it how it is at this point.
Meta gems requiring specific gems is silly in the first place. Either it's a blatant DPS loss, which is stupid; or it's requirement isn't even noticed because you would gem that way regardless, which is equally stupid.
This is a smart man. Perhaps the idea of gem requirements for meta activation should be looked at.
Edited by Turranmc on 11/19/2010 1:03 PM PST
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90 Dwarf Hunter
14760

Most already regemmed. Reverting the changes now will just cause people to have to regem a second time, for what gain? Just keep it how it is at this point.


Not sure what you mean. Most people on live have already regemmed to meet a meta requirement change that's not live yet? That seems unlikely. Even if it was the case, it's so much easier to match the old requirement that probably most people who would have done so would meet both.

Meta gems requiring specific gems is silly in the first place. Either it's a blatant DPS loss, which is stupid; or it's requirement isn't even noticed because you would gem that way regardless, which is equally stupid.


I'm not a huge fan of them myself, but the old smaller requirements did cause people to take minor gemming dps losses to gain significant benefits from the meta. Without them most dps classes would never have put a single blue gem in their gear. The newer requirements are far more onerous though and they change the requirements from a minor hassle to a huge gem planning event. I hope they get rid of the change entirely, but if they do keep it I just would rather they not cause gemming chaos in the first few weeks before everyone replaces their gear.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
14760
Ignore dupe- the first time I submitted it, the post didn't appear.
Edited by Zeherah on 11/19/2010 1:18 PM PST
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85 Worgen Rogue
8395
Theyre probably changing the Wrath meta gems because:
If they keep them as they are, they will actually be better for many classes instead of gemming undesireable stats to meet the rediculous requirements of the new meta gems.
So, people would just use the old ones and be on their way.
Which, I wish would happen, because if things go live as they are, I simply won't be using a meta gem.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
14760
Theyre probably changing the Wrath meta gems because:
If they keep them as they are, they will actually be better for many classes instead of gemming undesireable stats to meet the rediculous requirements of the new meta gems.
So, people would just use the old ones and be on their way.


Which is why I said they should make them only able to be placed in gear above a certain ilevel, the same way eternal belt buckles work on beta. Then people could continue to use them in their old gear, but when they upgraded their gear the'd have to change to the new metas.


Which, I wish would happen, because if things go live as they are, I simply won't be using a meta gem.


Not all the metas have such stringent requirements in Cata- it's primarily the 3% crit damage ones. There are several alternative options that are very easy to meet. The issue is just whether the suboptimal gemming forced by a 3% crit damage meta is made up for by the bonus it provides.

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85 Tauren Druid
9175
It's all part of the master plan to force hit down our throat at each and every turn.
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
5615
Total waste of meta gems. Don't even put them in the game if you lose more dps meeting the requirements than the meta gem will give you.


They should be deleted.
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90 Human Death Knight
9080
I thought the reason for removing the stats they did, like ArP and Mp5 was because they were too "mathy". Now we have to perform a cost benefit analysis to figure out whether or not we should use a meta or whether a meta is even worthwhile at all (which, if it isn't, reeks of terrible design).
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85 Human Paladin
8180
Casters are going to love all the melee running around with the 1% spell reflect meta, occasionally an RNG deathcoil reflect is going to win a game and people are going to go crazy.

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80 Blood Elf Paladin
5015
Ideally, it should always be worth activating your meta.

The mathy part, if anything, should come into whether or not you take just the bare minimum of gems needed to get the activation and spend the rest on your "best" gem, or if you take the activation + gem for socket bonuses.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
14760
Well there's never going to be a really good reason to use a meta and not activate it or to not use any meta at all. The question is going to be which meta to use.

I assume they wanted that to be a tougher choice than it is on live, but this implementation brings in a lot more mathiness than I think is really appropriate for meta gems.
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90 Human Death Knight
9080
Well there's never going to be a really good reason to use a meta and not activate it or to not use any meta at all. The question is going to be which meta to use.



There is a good reason if all of the metas have requirements such that it is a DPS loss to gem to meet them.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
14760
There is a good reason if all of the metas have requirements such that it is a DPS loss to gem to meet them.


Yes, but that's a strawman argument (or the argument of someone who hasn't looked at the meta gems available in Cata). The only dps metas with extremely onerous requirements that I know of are the ones with the % crit damage bonus.

There are several alternatives that are very easy to activate such mastery/runspeed one (fleet shadowspirit diamond) which takes 2 yellows, or crit/spell reflect (destructive shadowspirit diamond) which takes 2 reds. Casters are even better off as they have some int based ones like int/mana (ember shadowspirit diamond) which requires 2 yellows- physical dps has no new agil or strength based metas.

This is why people find it hard to justify using the 3% crit damage metas - not just because the crit damage meta costs you a lot of stats to activate, but also because there are easier to activate alternatives that get you some useful stats but just no 3% crit damage.
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90 Human Death Knight
9080
There is a good reason if all of the metas have requirements such that it is a DPS loss to gem to meet them.


Yes, but that's a strawman argument (or the argument of someone who hasn't looked at the meta gems available in Cata). The only dps metas with extremely onerous requirements that I know of are the ones with the % crit damage bonus.

There are several alternatives that are very easy to activate such mastery/runspeed one (fleet shadowspirit diamond) which takes 2 yellows, or crit/spell reflect (destructive shadowspirit diamond) which takes 2 reds. Casters are even better off as they have some int based ones like int/mana (ember shadowspirit diamond) which requires 2 yellows- physical dps has no new agil or strength based metas.

This is why people find it hard to justify using the 3% crit damage metas - not just because the crit damage meta costs you a lot of stats to activate, but also because there are easier to activate alternatives that get you some useful stats but just no 3% crit damage.


Mastery is particularly atrocious for unholy DKs. Essentially the worst stat we can have for DPS, aside from agility. Crit is also pretty bad.

My point is, the crit gems are going to be worthless and the gems that we do get to use are going to be boring and a step down from what we're used to at best.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14945
Could we please get some sort of word on whether or not this is a bug before it goes live? That way we don't regem to a different meta if it is going to be fixed a few days after 4.0.3a goes live and then have to gem back.
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85 Worgen Hunter
10665
Its not a bug, and the simple fact is, someone will come up with a way to eek out the numbers and one of two scenarios are likely.

1. Someone will theorycraft way to make the dps meta work and we gain dps. Then we will all copy that.
2. Someone will theorycraft and find its silly to even consider the DPS meta and we use the Mastery one.

Either way someone will answer it. If it happens to be #2, and not one smart DPS's is using the DPS meta. At that point, then Blizz will look at it and make a change, because that is certainly not what they intended. So expect this to last until at least 4.1.
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