druids only ones nerfed in 4.0.3a?

85 Tauren Druid
3120
Revitalize nerf was needed, it was way overpowered.
But yeah, Tuesday is going to be very brutal for druids.
First taste of the Cataclysm mana regen adjustments.
Reply Quote
85 Human Priest
9140
Remember guys, Holy Priests are the worst healing class in the game by a HUGE margin and they will go on a witch hunt for a class that is powerfuller than them until they are nerfed.
Which will never happen because we'll never post meters or anything that shows a big discrepency in healing.


Would you like a tin foil hat? Rereading the posts on this thread and there's nobody being silly like that except, well you =P


Sorry 100 (why chakra sucks) threads and a random post from a paragon member. Also such things as PRIESTS ARE THE ONLY CLASS THAT RUNS OUT OF MANA right under a thread talking about Holy Paladin mana issues is highly ironic.
Don't act like priests never QQ, Everytime i go to this forum and post in a paladin thread, There is always Priests QQing that Paladins are overpowered and want certain mechanics gutted.
Also Priests hijack every single thread to make it seem like Druids are OP when infact they are not (well Revitalise was incredibly overpowered and was nerfed)


You definitely need a tin foil hat. Every class does it. Heck, you never hear from shamans is the current trend, but guess what, Tigole forum banned the lot of them back in the day for peppering the shaman forums with conspiracy theories.

People care about their classes hence the posts. Nobody likes to get nerfed and emotions run high. Just read your posts, you obviously care a lot of your pally enough to go on a rampage on some poor druid's qq thread =P If you think x class has more whiny people, then you forgot the pageful of paladin threads right after 4.0 hit!


Did you read my post?
They posted Meters showing how much a lack of healing there was.
You cannot honestly say that there was not a problem.
Paladins came in pretty much said it was pretty bad and they'd check the meters for that night (And a lot QQ threads with baseless assumptions).
That night, Many threads were made with MANY meters just showing how big of a gap between Holy Paladins and what other classes were doing, There was concrete proof. I don't see any for holy priests at all and trust me i've been checking through all the fights that matter and i don't see where holy priests fall behind. Sure, you have mana issues but so does Holy Paladins and so will every other class at 85 (Yeah, it really sucks having your class at 80 being similar at 85 but its better because you're used to mana running out than any other healer.)
Obviously the Paladins continued to push the bill as there was 5-6 days of really bad meter parsing and some of the top guilds were sitting Holy Paladins to progress. (I think Elo did go over the top).
Then GC looked at it and the hotfix came, so i think there was enough justification for that.
Priests on the other hand just throw baseless assumptions everywhere and i find very few threads have meters or even go into theorycrafting.

Druids on the other hand basically courtesy of Lisanna, I don't see much issues from them besides Tree Form and how it looks and also this thread.

My Meters before Priests get buffed (I do agree with the buff, their healers were on par with 4.0 Paladins or just better. But destroying Chakra isn't the right way to go).
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/6rtfclcl84x4e3k0/

You can check any meters if you like, there is no illuminated healing but i can't really be bothered to estimate it (because estimating by putting 8% on every heal is wrong because sometimes your shields get overwritten/expire).
Priests seem to be doing fine on some fights but awful on others but ultimately i think the skill slider for a priest is far higher than any other class. (Basically meaning, if you're really bad, you will get punished harder)


If you were having trouble finding logs and meters that justified priests concerns about their healing relative to other classes then you weren't looking hard enough. They are out there and guess what, they are still showing holy at the bottom of the heap and that's just talking about pve.

That isn't even taking into account priests abysmal survivability in arenas and pvp.

Yes bad priests get punished harder and guess what, the good ones get rewarded less. This has been the jist of most reasonable priest qq and it is absolutely spot on correct. In every class balance argument you will have people spouting garbage at the extremes.

Priest concerns were every bit as valid as those of your class and one could argue that they still pale in comparison, particularly where pvp is concerned.
Edited by Sparklehorse on 11/22/2010 10:18 AM PST
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
0
wow it took 7 whole posts before this turned into a priest thread - must be because of the holiday - usually it only takes 2-3....
Reply Quote
85 Human Priest
9140
wow it took 7 whole posts before this turned into a priest thread - must be because of the holiday - usually it only takes 2-3....


Well let us be completely honest here. A thread where a druid asks why they were the only ones being nerfed was either:

A) A woefully uninformed druid or one that hasn't raided or even played for the entire previous expansion. This is entirely possible.

B) A troll post, designed specifically to draw us into another debate over who should or shouldn't be nerfed.

I personally took issue with a poster who implied priests were complaining with no evidence to back them up. This was simply untrue and I felt deserved a response. I do apologize for not addressing the concerns of the OP and for my part in derailing a thread although the thread was very much off the tracks well before I got here.

So in the interest of staying on topic I will respond to the OP now.

Druids were nerfed because 85 beta logs were showing an extreme gap in both regen and output between druids and the other classes. In fact there was such a big gap that many progression guilds who were in the beta were sitting shamen and priests in favor of pallies and druids.

Druids were pretty much doing exactly what they were doing in Wrath and not running out of mana which was something that ran counter to the developers idea of what they wanted healing in cata to be.

That is the reason your class is getting the majority of nerfs with the upcoming patch.
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
0
The problem I forsee with Druids is we have no clear role - something GC doesn't seem to think is a problem.

We are Hot healers that aren't allowed to use Hots - they have been neutered to the point of being an afterthought. We are Tank Healers that have no dmg mitigation talents or cooldowns. We are Raid Healers with no direct AOE heal. What exactly are Druids supposed to be doing if they don't have superior output?
Edited by Zowi on 11/22/2010 10:59 AM PST
Reply Quote
82 Tauren Shaman
3280
I personally took issue with a poster who implied priests were complaining with no evidence to back them up.


are you talking about me here? it looks like it considering you were talking about me 2 seconds ago in this post, but i didn't imply that at all. i didn't say a single thing about priests except that they got buffed, which is a fact. i didn't say where that puts them on the healer totem pole, nor did i mention anything about priests complaining.

Druids were nerfed because 85 beta logs were showing an extreme gap in both regen and output between druids and the other classes. In fact there was such a big gap that many progression guilds who were in the beta were sitting shamen and priests in favor of pallies and druids.

Druids were pretty much doing exactly what they were doing in Wrath and not running out of mana which was something that ran counter to the developers idea of what they wanted healing in cata to be.

That is the reason your class is getting the majority of nerfs with the upcoming patch.


ok, but how will this affect low level druids? they're nerfing talents and spells that are core to all levels of resto druids, even though the issue is only at 85. can't they just increase the mana costs of rejuv past ~80 or so? or did the devs intend to also nerf low level druid healing? or do they just not give two poops about anything at all below level 85 even though they spent massive amounts of time designing new low level content? that's what i'd like to know
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
0
I should also add:

For everyone else's crying Druids are the ONLY healing spec that have been outright discarded for raid content - Sunwell / LK it was DRUIDS who got boned. And why is that? Because we bring nothing to the table others can't bring except our Hots and if those suck so do we - well now we bring nothing to the table other can't bring AND our hots are very limited. I may be wrong but that doesn't sound like an improvement to me.
Reply Quote
19 Draenei Shaman
0
Shaman got nerfed.

Earthliving on Chain Heal got reduced by 75%.
Chain Heal got a 17.6% increase to mana cost.


I have a meter of a possiblity why
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2nt07xcnfx39n0pf/sum/healingDone/?s=7293&e=7619

But tbh, this is level 80 not 85, Hopefully its not very damaging at 85. Resto Shammys were in serious bad shape in the first tier of content in WotLK


Thats a bad resto druid, should be mopping the floor with everyone else.
Reply Quote
85 Human Priest
9140
I personally took issue with a poster who implied priests were complaining with no evidence to back them up.


are you talking about me here? it looks like it considering you were talking about me 2 seconds ago in this post, but i didn't imply that at all. i didn't say a single thing about priests except that they got buffed, which is a fact. i didn't say where that puts them on the healer totem pole, nor did i mention anything about priests complaining.

Druids were nerfed because 85 beta logs were showing an extreme gap in both regen and output between druids and the other classes. In fact there was such a big gap that many progression guilds who were in the beta were sitting shamen and priests in favor of pallies and druids.

Druids were pretty much doing exactly what they were doing in Wrath and not running out of mana which was something that ran counter to the developers idea of what they wanted healing in cata to be.

That is the reason your class is getting the majority of nerfs with the upcoming patch.


ok, but how will this affect low level druids? they're nerfing talents and spells that are core to all levels of resto druids, even though the issue is only at 85. can't they just increase the mana costs of rejuv past ~80 or so? or did the devs intend to also nerf low level druid healing? or do they just not give two poops about anything at all below level 85 even though they spent massive amounts of time designing new low level content? that's what i'd like to know



No no :)

I was talking about the pally. I take no issue with anything you have said and actually agree with you on the impact these nerfs will have on lower levels.

Although to be honest, I feel like druids will be fine at lower levels considering they are quite powerful (probably a bit too powerful even at lower levels when compared to other classes.)


Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
0
What do druids offer other than healing output? We don't have ANY unique buffs or utility. We no longer have the +healing aura from tree form, our in-combat rez was nerfed, we no longer have Mark of the Wild unique to our class, and no longer have a huge advantage in mobility. We don't have bloodlust, totems, fortitude, shields, auras, blessings, or hand buffs. People concerned with healing meters want druids nerfed but then what do druids offer? If we're doing the same amount of healing as every other healer, why would you take a druid over other healers that do the same or more healing, but have better buffs and additional utility?
Reply Quote
19 Draenei Shaman
0
umm with buffs being streamlined it seems as if almost everyone buff can become overwritten by another, in most cases the only totem you need to drop is healing stream.
Reply Quote
85 Human Priest
9140
What do druids offer other than healing output? We don't have ANY unique buffs or utility. We no longer have the +healing aura from tree form, our in-combat rez was nerfed, we no longer have Mark of the Wild unique to our class, and no longer have a huge advantage in mobility. We don't have bloodlust, totems, fortitude, shields, auras, blessings, or hand buffs. People concerned with healing meters want druids nerfed but then what do druids offer? If we're doing the same amount of healing as every other healer, why would you take a druid over other healers that do the same or more healing, but have better buffs and additional utility?


Battle rez and innervate would like to talk to you.

(Though I understand these aren't necessarily "unique" to you they are still very much reasons to bring druids to raids.)
Edited by Sparklehorse on 11/22/2010 11:13 AM PST
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
0
What do druids offer other than healing output? We don't have ANY unique buffs or utility. We no longer have the +healing aura from tree form, our in-combat rez was nerfed, we no longer have Mark of the Wild unique to our class, and no longer have a huge advantage in mobility. We don't have bloodlust, totems, fortitude, shields, auras, blessings, or hand buffs. People concerned with healing meters want druids nerfed but then what do druids offer? If we're doing the same amount of healing as every other healer, why would you take a druid over other healers that do the same or more healing, but have better buffs and additional utility?


Battle rez and innervate would like to talk to you.


Battle-rez is 3 per fight in 25 man and 1 per in 10 if I remember correctly, and shares with Soul Stone. Also can be brought by Ferals and Boomkins - so no you don't NEED a RESTO druid for Battle Rez.

Blues have stated Innervate will be balanced for use BY THE DRUID. Maybe that wasn't the case when Beta Druids were OP - but it seems like they are headed that way.

Next.
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
3120
I know that when I now heal a group, I force myself to always keep lifebloom up somewhere on someone any time. This is to fish for Omen of Clarity that is equivalent to a free healing touch. This will become important past Tuesday.
Reply Quote
85 Human Priest
9140
What do druids offer other than healing output? We don't have ANY unique buffs or utility. We no longer have the +healing aura from tree form, our in-combat rez was nerfed, we no longer have Mark of the Wild unique to our class, and no longer have a huge advantage in mobility. We don't have bloodlust, totems, fortitude, shields, auras, blessings, or hand buffs. People concerned with healing meters want druids nerfed but then what do druids offer? If we're doing the same amount of healing as every other healer, why would you take a druid over other healers that do the same or more healing, but have better buffs and additional utility?


Battle rez and innervate would like to talk to you.


Battle-rez is 3 per fight in 25 man and 1 per in 10 if I remember correctly, and shares with Soul Stone. Also can be brought by Ferals and Boomkins - so no you don't NEED a RESTO druid for Battle Rez.

Blues have stated Innervate will be balanced for use BY THE DRUID. Maybe that wasn't the case when Beta Druids were OP - but it seems like they are headed that way.

Next.


Next? Wasn't aware there was a line forming.

Even with every point you made those two tools are still very much good reasons to bring a druid. Let's not go all chicken little here when it comes to these current moderate nerfs. Nobody is going to be sitting druids for other classes. The logs indicate that even with the current moderate nerfs druids will still out-regen and in most cases out-heal all others.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
13395
If we're doing the same amount of healing as every other healer, why would you take a druid over other healers that do the same or more healing, but have better buffs and additional utility?


Battle rez and innervate would like to talk to you.
(Though I understand these aren't necessarily "unique" to you they are still very much reasons to bring druids to raids.)


Battle-rez is 3 per fight in 25 man and 1 per in 10 if I remember correctly, and shares with Soul Stone. Also can be brought by Ferals and Boomkins - so no you don't NEED a RESTO druid for Battle Rez.

Blues have stated Innervate will be balanced for use BY THE DRUID. Maybe that wasn't the case when Beta Druids were OP - but it seems like they are headed that way.
Next.


Personally, I take the healer who is less likely to stand in fire, to get distracted by TV, and has actually shown up to raid on time. Unless we have like 4 healers of one spec (as a variety of healer specs is always preferred) - spec doesn't usually play a major role in selection. (except for things like, who goes into the portals for dreamwalker).

But with the changes coming, if we have to worry about too many healers on and wanting to raid, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Reply Quote
- World of Warcraft
90 Night Elf Druid
11830
The problem I forsee with Druids is we have no clear role - something GC doesn't seem to think is a problem.

We are Hot healers that aren't allowed to use Hots - they have been neutered to the point of being an afterthought. We are Tank Healers that have no dmg mitigation talents or cooldowns. We are Raid Healers with no direct AOE heal. What exactly are Druids supposed to be doing if they don't have superior output?


At least 75% of the healing I did in level 85 Beta raids (both 10 & 25) was from HOTs. It's not the end of the world. Druid healing numbers in Beta are high, we have great regen still, and they reduced the # of talent points in our tree, to make it easy for us to get all the "required" talents, and still have a couple points left over to put in other things we want.

Druids are going to start out in great shape at level 85.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
0
What do druids offer other than healing output? We don't have ANY unique buffs or utility. We no longer have the +healing aura from tree form, our in-combat rez was nerfed, we no longer have Mark of the Wild unique to our class, and no longer have a huge advantage in mobility. We don't have bloodlust, totems, fortitude, shields, auras, blessings, or hand buffs. People concerned with healing meters want druids nerfed but then what do druids offer? If we're doing the same amount of healing as every other healer, why would you take a druid over other healers that do the same or more healing, but have better buffs and additional utility?


Battle rez and innervate would like to talk to you.


Battle-rez is 3 per fight in 25 man and 1 per in 10 if I remember correctly, and shares with Soul Stone. Also can be brought by Ferals and Boomkins - so no you don't NEED a RESTO druid for Battle Rez.

Blues have stated Innervate will be balanced for use BY THE DRUID. Maybe that wasn't the case when Beta Druids were OP - but it seems like they are headed that way.

Next.


Correct, Battle rez was nerfed to 1 per 10 man, 3 for 25, and it shares with Warlock soulstone and I believe shaman reincarnation. Innervate was also nerfed and provides a fraction of the mana it used to. Also, it only applies to one person whereas Shaman's mana tide totem does basically the same thing for the entire group. Face it, there's nothing unique to druids anymore that would make someone say they need a druid. I look at chat and the healers most people want are Shaman for bloodlust and disc priest for shields. I rarely see requests for druids. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]