druids only ones nerfed in 4.0.3a?

85 Human Priest
9140
What do druids offer other than healing output? We don't have ANY unique buffs or utility. We no longer have the +healing aura from tree form, our in-combat rez was nerfed, we no longer have Mark of the Wild unique to our class, and no longer have a huge advantage in mobility. We don't have bloodlust, totems, fortitude, shields, auras, blessings, or hand buffs. People concerned with healing meters want druids nerfed but then what do druids offer? If we're doing the same amount of healing as every other healer, why would you take a druid over other healers that do the same or more healing, but have better buffs and additional utility?


Battle rez and innervate would like to talk to you.


Battle-rez is 3 per fight in 25 man and 1 per in 10 if I remember correctly, and shares with Soul Stone. Also can be brought by Ferals and Boomkins - so no you don't NEED a RESTO druid for Battle Rez.

Blues have stated Innervate will be balanced for use BY THE DRUID. Maybe that wasn't the case when Beta Druids were OP - but it seems like they are headed that way.

Next.


Correct, Battle rez was nerfed to 1 per 10 man, 3 for 25, and it shares with Warlock soulstone and I believe shaman reincarnation. Innervate was also nerfed and provides a fraction of the mana it used to. Also, it only applies to one person whereas Shaman's mana tide totem does basically the same thing for the entire group. Face it, there's nothing unique to druids anymore that would make someone say they need a druid. I look at chat and the healers most people want are Shaman for bloodlust and disc priest for shields. I rarely see requests for druids. I don't see that changing anytime soon.


We aren't seriously basing our ideas about raid balance based on what we see spammed in trade chat for pug raids of current content are we?

If we are doing that, holy priests are in way worse shape than we thought.
Reply Quote
85 Draenei Shaman
6600
Druids are going to start out in great shape at level 85.

For pve. This is mostly a pve thread, so your comment is apt. But any comment on druid viability in beta should probably make the distinction, since their pvp situation is awful if an offensive dispeller is around.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
16080
Druids get both buffs & nerfs in 4.0.3a. They are changing what some talents & abilities do, which is fine, since the goal is to have us be balanced versus other classes at 85.

While your heals at 85 feel like they start out about the same, getting actual 85 gear makes up for some of that gap. Your spell power doesn't go down, so what happens is that you lose haste & crit (which everyone loses), while the ratings get de-valued. If they didn't de-value haste & crit, then we'd all be running around at 100% crit and insane values of haste that would make the game super un-fun.


Except that damage scales upward readily through levels and heals do not. That's counter intuitive and essentially a punishment for leveling. There is no way to justify that as good game design regardless of what the end goals are.
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
0
The problem I forsee with Druids is we have no clear role - something GC doesn't seem to think is a problem.

We are Hot healers that aren't allowed to use Hots - they have been neutered to the point of being an afterthought. We are Tank Healers that have no dmg mitigation talents or cooldowns. We are Raid Healers with no direct AOE heal. What exactly are Druids supposed to be doing if they don't have superior output?


At least 75% of the healing I did in level 85 Beta raids (both 10 & 25) was from HOTs. It's not the end of the world. Druid healing numbers in Beta are high, we have great regen still, and they reduced the # of talent points in our tree, to make it easy for us to get all the "required" talents, and still have a couple points left over to put in other things we want.

Druids are going to start out in great shape at level 85.


Sorry if my past experience doesn't allow for throwing a parade - but Druids always end up screwed in some fashion. And I can promise you if the core problems of the class aren't addressed it will happen again.

Personally, I take the healer who is less likely to stand in fire, to get distracted by TV, and has actually shown up to raid on time. Unless we have like 4 healers of one spec (as a variety of healer specs is always preferred) - spec doesn't usually play a major role in selection. (except for things like, who goes into the portals for dreamwalker).

But with the changes coming, if we have to worry about too many healers on and wanting to raid, I'll be pleasantly surprised.


In theory that is how it should work - however it doesn't always work out that way. Infest is a prime example of that - go ahead and bring your great Resto Druids to Heroic LK with a low buff % and see how far you get. And while that might have been 1 fight - it was a fight that my guild progressed on for 4 months - so yeah 4 months of playing Boomkin or sitting out blew monkey balls. Those are the kinds of things that keep happening and nothing has been changed with the class to ensure they don't happen again.

See the difference between Druids and other classes is we ACTUALLY have been left out - what have we been given to make us competitive so it doesn't happen again - we still have the same spells and crappy utility compared to everyone else's new spells and superior utility. What has changed? I am not saying being completely OP in the output department is the right answer - but what is being done to ensure we aren't cheering from the sidelines on random fight X when it has happened several times before?

This about sums what my concerns for the class: http://elitistjerks.com/blogs/hamlet/508-resto_feedback.html
Edited by Zowi on 11/22/2010 1:14 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
12135
I should also add:

For everyone else's crying Druids are the ONLY healing spec that have been outright discarded for raid content - Sunwell / LK it was DRUIDS who got boned. And why is that? Because we bring nothing to the table others can't bring except our Hots and if those suck so do we - well now we bring nothing to the table other can't bring AND our hots are very limited. I may be wrong but that doesn't sound like an improvement to me.
On fights that are tuned as ludicrously as HLK or Yogg0 you're always going to get mechanics that heavily favor or punish some specs. Trees being excluded from the first HLK kills had absolutely nothing to do with the relative power of resto druids to other specs overall and everything to do with the fact that the number one killer in that fight just happened to be designed in a way that made them garbage. I liken it to Sunwell, where resto shaman were OP in every fight except Kil'jaeden, where you had to spread out so much that brain heal couldn't bounce for **%*. That said, 95% of the people who have killed heroic LK did not kill him at a buff level where resto druids were such a liability that you couldn't kill him with one.

And I don't know what Sunwell you did, but I can't imagine being able to do M'uru without a resto druid to cover the little add tank + help me on the void sentinel tank.They were the LK holy pallies of BC in that they were pretty much a requirement for any fight with multiple tanks taking damage at once. If any healer got boned in Sunwell it was the holy pallies, who were pretty much just brought for the blessings because by that point mana was so ludicrous that anyone could stand in one place and slam their face against the downranked big heal button forever.
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
0
I should also add:

For everyone else's crying Druids are the ONLY healing spec that have been outright discarded for raid content - Sunwell / LK it was DRUIDS who got boned. And why is that? Because we bring nothing to the table others can't bring except our Hots and if those suck so do we - well now we bring nothing to the table other can't bring AND our hots are very limited. I may be wrong but that doesn't sound like an improvement to me.
On fights that are tuned as ludicrously as HLK or Yogg0 you're always going to get mechanics that heavily favor or punish some specs. Trees being excluded from the first HLK kills had absolutely nothing to do with the relative power of resto druids to other specs overall and everything to do with the fact that the number one killer in that fight just happened to be designed in a way that made them garbage. I liken it to Sunwell, where resto shaman were OP in every fight except Kil'jaeden, where you had to spread out so much that brain heal couldn't bounce for **%*. That said, 95% of the people who have killed heroic LK did not kill him at a buff level where resto druids were such a liability that you couldn't kill him with one.

And I don't know what Sunwell you did, but I can't imagine being able to do M'uru without a resto druid to cover the little add tank + help me on the void sentinel tank.They were the LK holy pallies of BC in that they were pretty much a requirement for any fight with multiple tanks taking damage at once. If any healer got boned in Sunwell it was the holy pallies, who were pretty much just brought for the blessings because by that point mana was so ludicrous that anyone could stand in one place and slam their face against the downranked big heal button forever.


How exactly does the fact you could bring a Druid after 5 months of Heroic LK being released make it OK that druids were terrible for the fight before that? All that means is the people who played Druids in that 95% of people who killed him after the buff got strong sat around doing jack #*@! or got stuck playing a spec they didn't like for months just so they could contribute.

As for Sunwell if you brought anything other than as many Shamans and Priests as you could you were doing Sunwell on Hardmode. Druids and Paladins were both boned in that instance and Heroic LK just goes to show they learned nothing from it. Trees were overall powerful - but you know why? Because they designed fights to be Hot Friendly. Well now our Hots are signifcatly weaker and we don't stack up to the buffs other direct healers bring. I have no doubt we will be viable - but we will be the best choice when progression is tough? Why should I believe they have learned from their past mistakes? Why should I believe that when Druids spell to spell bring nothing spectacular to the party yet have to be on par with everyone else's healing we won't be boned again? What changes do you think have been made to the class that will help us avoid this Good of Bad trap again? I don't see any.
Reply Quote
85 Troll Druid
9165
They want us to not spam Rejuv/WG for raid healing, but honestly they have not given us any other real means of doing it. Efflo is very minor in its effectiveness. Regrowth chews through mana like a freshly sharpened chainsaw, and nourish/healing touch take 2 years to cast. So much can happen in 2.5 seconds... and if you wasted that on a nourish instead of a healing touch you feel like you just wasted time.

Until we get something else we can do, rejuv/wg will always be our go to raid heal style. From watching videos of raids in cata, damage output doesn't seem too much less than what it is today. Maybe they didn't reduce it after the healing circle fiasco, or maybe they have *shrugs*.

In any case, how bosses deal damage to the raid, will determine which spells we'll use.
Reply Quote
2 Night Elf Druid
0
Shaman got nerfed.

Earthliving on Chain Heal got reduced by 75%.
Chain Heal got a 17.6% increase to mana cost.


I have a meter of a possiblity why
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2nt07xcnfx39n0pf/sum/healingDone/?s=7293&e=7619

But tbh, this is level 80 not 85, Hopefully its not very damaging at 85. Resto Shammys were in serious bad shape in the first tier of content in WotLK


And they will be in Cataclysm, they have been abysmal in raid environments from the start, but it has gone largely unnoticed, because they were said to be the strongest healers from the experience of 5 man dungeons.
Reply Quote
2 Night Elf Druid
0
They want us to not spam Rejuv/WG for raid healing, but honestly they have not given us any other real means of doing it. Efflo is very minor in its effectiveness. Regrowth chews through mana like a freshly sharpened chainsaw, and nourish/healing touch take 2 years to cast. So much can happen in 2.5 seconds... and if you wasted that on a nourish instead of a healing touch you feel like you just wasted time.

Until we get something else we can do, rejuv/wg will always be our go to raid heal style. From watching videos of raids in cata, damage output doesn't seem too much less than what it is today. Maybe they didn't reduce it after the healing circle fiasco, or maybe they have *shrugs*.

In any case, how bosses deal damage to the raid, will determine which spells we'll use.

Exactly this:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/899420031?page=1
Edited by Jhin on 11/22/2010 2:53 PM PST
Reply Quote
81 Night Elf Druid
3560


Correct, Battle rez was nerfed to 1 per 10 man, 3 for 25, and it shares with Warlock soulstone and I believe shaman reincarnation. Innervate was also nerfed and provides a fraction of the mana it used to. Also, it only applies to one person whereas Shaman's mana tide totem does basically the same thing for the entire group. Face it, there's nothing unique to druids anymore that would make someone say they need a druid. I look at chat and the healers most people want are Shaman for bloodlust and disc priest for shields. I rarely see requests for druids. I don't see that changing anytime soon.


Why do you need specific buffs to get into a raid?

Are you not good enough yourself to warrant a raid spot?
Reply Quote
85 Draenei Shaman
6600
Why do you need specific buffs to get into a raid?

Are you not good enough yourself to warrant a raid spot?

This may surprise you, but most moderately non-fail raids actually consider ensuring all buffs are covered to be a good thing.
Reply Quote
10 Gnome Rogue
70

I think the Mana regen was overpowered, They could still rejuv blanket which is basically unfair to other classes.


So like they were raid healers? WHAT A CONCEPT!
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Priest
7965
I play a disc priest, holy priest, holy pali and a resto druid.

The resto druid right now is very OP very very very OP with mana regen and the amount it heals its like a little firework sparking all over the place and my other healers frown at it tbh. I can spam rejuv and WG all over the raid and eat some pizza or w.e

Holy needed a bit of a buff since they are struggling a lot worse with mana atm.
Disc needs more 'aoe' style heals because the current ones are quite small in their heal compared to every other class that has a aoe 'heal' and binding heal wasn't being used at all because its healing output was pretty poor. - PW:S got a large nerf so we would cast something other than it, that is why resto druids are getting nerf'd so we cast something other than rejuv.
Holy paladins recently got a buff because healing on them was so poor many were not even being brought to raids.
Druids do need something 'else' to cast though it seems then classes should be fairly even come cata. But its fairly simular to disc priest we got fast big heal cost a lot of mana, slow poor mana efficent heal and big large heal that costs a lot of mana. Then I suppose prayer of healing is kind of like WG but with long cast time and divine hymn is like a tranquility.


What was being brought to raids (in cata) is many resto druids (and holy palas), being quite easy to play and very powerful raid leaders all over crammed the raid full of em.
Now perhaps other healers wont get so overlooked as Blizzard is trying to make everyone 'equal' which tbh is ABOUT TIME!

It wont be so bad in cata either because they are going to nerf the bosses some atm they are doing a lot of AOE dmg since druids and paladins aoe heals are to OP so once paladin and druid nerfs on AOE heals go through raids will get changed to.

Healing wise everyone will be fine if they stack enough spirit and int to last mana wise, and enough spellpower thoughtput which just comes from not undergearing the instance when we first enter it.
Edited by Avaskie on 11/22/2010 10:58 PM PST
Reply Quote
100 Gnome Priest
15230
Can we post about our healing concerns without comparing our own class to the other healing classes? Comparing encourages QQ and pissing contests. It also diverts attention away from the problem at hand, which is a perceived / confirmed issue and causes the blamed "other class(es)" to become defensive.

It doesn't help anyone.
Reply Quote
85 Night Elf Druid
5140
Just a lot of whining D:
Reply Quote
86 Tauren Druid
11230
The problem I forsee with Druids is we have no clear role - something GC doesn't seem to think is a problem.

We are Hot healers that aren't allowed to use Hots - they have been neutered to the point of being an afterthought. We are Tank Healers that have no dmg mitigation talents or cooldowns. We are Raid Healers with no direct AOE heal. What exactly are Druids supposed to be doing if they don't have superior output?


At least 75% of the healing I did in level 85 Beta raids (both 10 & 25) was from HOTs. It's not the end of the world. Druid healing numbers in Beta are high, we have great regen still, and they reduced the # of talent points in our tree, to make it easy for us to get all the "required" talents, and still have a couple points left over to put in other things we want.

Druids are going to start out in great shape at level 85.


I agree that 85 resto druids are not in nearly as bad shape as some claim and will be viable for raiding, but Efflorescence is still the proverbial turd in the punch bow and is particularly worrying with all the comments, in these forums and reputable others, that the devs refuse to address it. It's supposed to be our signature 4.0 heal, but it heals for less than Wild Growth, it has a clunky & kludgy mechanism which limits my options (ie, tied to Swiftmend), it's raid-healing talent linked to a primarily tank-healing talent, and the talent point cost-benefit is frustratingly low. If Blizzard doesn't fix the glaring problems with Efflorescence, I personally can't justify putting points into it now or in the foreseeable future.
Reply Quote
85 Goblin Priest
9855

I agree that 85 resto druids are not in nearly as bad shape as some claim and will be viable for raiding, but Efflorescence is still the proverbial turd in the punch bow and is particularly worrying with all the comments, in these forums and reputable others, that the devs refuse to address it. It's supposed to be our signature 4.0 heal, but it heals for less than Wild Growth, it has a clunky & kludgy mechanism which limits my options (ie, tied to Swiftmend), it's raid-healing talent linked to a primarily tank-healing talent, and the talent point cost-benefit is frustratingly low. If Blizzard doesn't fix the glaring problems with Efflorescence, I personally can't justify putting points into it now or in the foreseeable future.


This is absurd, there is nothing wrong with Efflorescence. You are required to give up Swiftmend just like Holy Priests are required to give up Holy Word: Serenity.

Furthermore, Efflorescence costs 10% base mana and Sanctuary 44%.

Druids are probably the most powerful healer rolling in to Cataclysm. Count your blessings.
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
4240
After playing second fiddle, struggling against the much more powerful priest heals in vanilla during Ony/MC/BWL, etc, I deleted my alliance Nelf dru and played other toons. If I find that healing is once again stressful and I am badgered. demeaned or whatever during dungeons, I'll simply hang up her horns and once again make my Spriest my main. I play for a challenge yes but not to be stressed out like I was before. No biggie...another healer bites the dust and I have fun again lol.
Reply Quote
86 Tauren Druid
11230

I agree that 85 resto druids are not in nearly as bad shape as some claim and will be viable for raiding, but Efflorescence is still the proverbial turd in the punch bow and is particularly worrying with all the comments, in these forums and reputable others, that the devs refuse to address it. It's supposed to be our signature 4.0 heal, but it heals for less than Wild Growth, it has a clunky & kludgy mechanism which limits my options (ie, tied to Swiftmend), it's raid-healing talent linked to a primarily tank-healing talent, and the talent point cost-benefit is frustratingly low. If Blizzard doesn't fix the glaring problems with Efflorescence, I personally can't justify putting points into it now or in the foreseeable future.


This is absurd, there is nothing wrong with Efflorescence. You are required to give up Swiftmend just like Holy Priests are required to give up Holy Word: Serenity.

Furthermore, Efflorescence costs 10% base mana and Sanctuary 44%.

Druids are probably the most powerful healer rolling in to Cataclysm. Count your blessings.


Leave it to a QQ-ing Priest to offer up an 'absurd', intellectually lazy straw man for reasons why Druids can't have legitimate concerns, which stand on their own merits, about problematical talent.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]