Paladin healing, holy power, talent changes

85 Blood Elf Paladin
10170
(This is long but I have a good point, so bare with me. I really would like some opinions and other suggestions)

As I am seeing it now, every one is saying to just heal the beacon target for holy power and then use light of dawn, word of glory and holy shock on the raid/group. In a five man this is fine. In a raid this doesn't always work. Healers are reactive, not a rotation spec. In a raid the tank may be full (due to other healers) and the raid is taking a lot of damage. So in this situation you need holy power, but healing the tank is just plain stupid just because you get holy power from beacon. So you use single target heal and hope for procs on daybreak so you can continue to spam holy shock till you get enough holy power to raid heal more. I under stand that there are more options there than that, but my point is, spending three points on a talent that makes beacon almost useless is just wrong. No holy pally is comfortable leaving the beacon target alone to heal the rest of the group. This makes beacon only good for the holy power and its main ability useless since nobody else gets direct heals. So we spend four points to pigeon hole ourselves into healing one target for more of a resource that is NEEDED to do our part as healers and ruin a perfectly good support talent in the process. Beacon is a great talent that never gets used because we are all so hard up for holy power regardless of the fact that the beacon target needs heals.

so when the time comes to raid heal I would like to heal the raid and let the full beacon target reap the benefits of my job well done, and throw a few heals to the beacon target to fill the gaps that beacon cant fill. While doing this I would also like to be able to generate holy power consistently without over healing and just being wasteful by healing the beacon target unnecessarily. To me that sounds fun and what healing is all about. Be quick to react and manage health by rate of decline.

Maybe a change can be made to tower of radiance. So you get a 33-66-100% chance to gain holy power when healing the beacon target, but also gain 10-20-30% chance to gain holy power when healing anyone other than the beacon target. As it is now, holy power is abundant for tank healing. But if you make it attainable for raid healing, the clunkyness would subside a bit and the beacons primary function would be used.

Another change that could be made is to beacon, so it balances with tower of radiance a little better. right now if you heal the beacon you get nothing unless you have more points invested in tower of radiance. So maybe the reverse could apply here. When you heal the beacon target, the five lowest health players within a ten-fifteen yard radius will receive 10% of the heal. Or 50% of the heal can be divided among the five closest players within ten yards. in a way this would put beacon as a constant 150% healing ability in the best of situations and there would still be only six targets being healed like all other A.O.E. heals. It would also be small enough but still useful given the amount the tank is normally healed for. This would also be reminiscent of the old holy light glyph that would splash to nearby players.

If you combine those two Ideas it could be very interesting and no talent point is wasted. You could even make the new beacon glyph do this splash effect since I have heard that beacon will now be a five minute buff. The only problem I am seeing is the idea of having so many "free heals".

I would love to hear some opinions and ideas from all healers about what I have said. Thank you for your time and I hope I have inspired a few of you.

Pern.
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84 Night Elf Druid
0
Add a tl;dr because that's a serious block of text
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3735
Maybe a change can be made to tower of radiance. So you get a 33-66-100% chance to gain holy power when healing the beacon target, but also gain 10-20-30% chance to gain holy power when healing anyone other than the beacon target.


This would be WAY OP, especially when coupled with Eternal Glory and Blessed Life. No way this will happen. HP would become as abundant as mana in Wrath.

So maybe the reverse could apply here. When you heal the beacon target, the five lowest health players within a ten-fifteen yard radius will receive 10% of the heal. Or 50% of the heal can be divided among the five closest players within ten yards. in a way this would put beacon as a constant 150% healing ability in the best of situations and there would still be only six targets being healed like all other A.O.E. heals.


This is an interesting idea...but still a little much. I think with LoD and HR pallys have a good amount of instant-like AoE heals. If anything, I'd be ok with a glyph that applies a "small amount of splash heal" like the old Holy Light glyph did.
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85 Gnome Priest
4615
I’m kinda lost as to what you are talking about..... holy shock gives you holy power every time you use it, holy power seem pretty attainable to me, can you get it every gcd? no. should you? Hell no. You really want to get more holy power? I’m sorry but in a healing environment based on using mana intelligently and using the right heal at the right time having any heal at all that costs no mana is dumb and in my opinion seems to be a design oversight.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7350
if u need three holy power yesterday, the quickest way to get it is hs, fol on bacon, fol on bacon (sub in hl if ur hs crits ofc). Even on live i find myself bustin a fol on the tank so i can get the third hopo so i can wog a dps. Its counter intuituve, but fol+wog is quicker than fol+fol. 2 hopo wogs arent bad either, when hs is down
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
2640
Healers are reactive, not a rotation spec

And this is why you are making a QQ post. Pre-cast/cancel cast. You're on the tank, don't worry about the raid.

Paladins are tank healers in raids. You can toss out a shock/WoG here and there but you should be focusing on the tanks--let the raid healers do their job.

Though I wouldn't mind having a smaller chance to gain holy power from non-beacon targets. It will make healing two tanks much easier.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
11145
Healers are reactive, not a rotation spec

And this is why you are making a QQ post. Pre-cast/cancel cast. You're on the tank, don't worry about the raid.

Paladins are tank healers in raids. You can toss out a shock/WoG here and there but you should be focusing on the tanks--let the raid healers do their job.

Though I wouldn't mind having a smaller chance to gain holy power from non-beacon targets. It will make healing two tanks much easier.


O.o
I guess GC must not be achieving his goal if you think Paladins are still tank healers O.o.
Paladins have a few good raid healing abilities.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9110
I think if you're tank healing, given the 85 damage model, it wouldn't be all that far fetched to stand in melee for Crusader Strike occasionally just like we used to do in Wrath when we played terribly and forgot to use DP when we were supposed to.....Wait...Was I the only one that did that? oops.

Anyway, between, Holy Shock, any heal on the beacon target, and an occasional Crusader strike where you have a global to spare without losing anyone, I don't see holy power being a problem to build up.

That said, I'm still lookin for the nimrod that decided 8 seconds on Blessed Life was a good idea. Granted, 2 seconds was overboard, but 8?? Really?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
2640

I guess GC must not be achieving his goal if you think Paladins are still tank healers O.o.
Paladins have a few good raid healing abilities.


On 30 second cooldown....

It's like having a disc priest try to raid heal--other than infest, it just isn't happening.

There's nothing wrong with niche healers.

And yes, paladins are still tank healers. I don't think so--it is fact. When a 3k gearscore holy pal can tank heal through phase 3 till the dumb dps decide to get pwned by spirits on lichking 10, I'm pretty sure holy pal = tank heals.
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I don't really like being confined to tank healing. We can do a lot more. Before the recent changes, I don't think I ever healed the tank except through the beacon. I healed everyone else and the beacon took care of the tank. Now with the beacon only getting half the heal, I have to be a little more careful about it, but I'm still mostly healing everyone else.

But then I don't have a 3 K gear score either!
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
How about a change to ToR to make it so you have a chance to generate holy power on all heals (perhaps double on shock?) when you have no target beaconed? This would make Beacon a choice. Use it while tank healing or during phases with heavy tank damage. Don't use it when raid healing, but still have reliable holy power generation that is faster than every 6 seconds. Somewhere around 1 every 3 seconds perhaps?
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100 Draenei Paladin
20585
I agree on some of your points.

My only complaint with paladin healing right now is that we're kind of forced into spamming our Beacon target for ToR.

If Holy Power generation was normalized between Beacon target and off the Beacon target, it would be a lot more fun/interesting.

Also, LoD shouldn't transfer to the Beacon target. If that makes us underpowered, then buff us in some other way.

The bonus to healing the Beacon target could be some sort of throughput bonus, like a HoT, so that we have a choice between healing the Beacon target and not healing him - no ToR-like bonus at all would force us to the latter. Perhaps using Word of Glory on the Beacon target could produce a significant HoT (might make it actually worth using over LoD if you're single target healing).
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80 Tauren Paladin
1980
Trust me, once you get up to the point where it matters, 50% beacon healing is not enough to keep a tank up on it's own.

ToR makes perfect sense in a tank-healing focus. We have many tools to aid in healing the raid, but we can do that WHILE putting out quite a bit of heals on the tank, too. This is a good thing, imo.

Ideally, healers should always be paired up with another class to complement each other's strengths and weaknesses. With the new healing changes, pallies can be good tank healers, but also put out a lot of healing to the rest of the raid in a pinch. No one has to stand idly by when they see a bad point coming, just because they are lacking certain tools.

Everyone has the ability to throw some tank heals, and some raid heals. That doesn't mean that we now have absolutely no class-based strengths in a group.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5640
Really for me Elo has hit the nail the head alot with my concerns. I think if they are serious about keeping ToR in it's current state we need 5 slots for HP that way during slow periods we can build it up so when raid damage or specific spikes show up we can at least get off 2 relatively quick LoD or WG uses before we have to spend alot of time either single targeting or spamming the tank.

Right now we can get one LoD off during big raid damage but then we are either forced to heal a target that probably doesn't need the heals to get HP or to single target. While i love the new LoD it worries me that it will end up either being indirectly inefficient or too slow to be truly effective at healing the wounded after our initial heal goes off.

If they are open to changing ToR maybe even reintroducing crit as a valued stat by giving crit heals a chance to give HP. At least find a way to normalize flow without it feeling like an awkward gimmick.

tl:dr Listen to Elo more
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85 Night Elf Druid
4120
i think its possible you are focusing too much on hp generation, you shouldnt be needing to generate or use holy power with 95% of your casts
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85 Human Paladin
4475
I think the problem with adjusting to our new rotation is there are too many things to watch and pay attention to or else you lose the benefits of those procs. In WOTLK you watch only 1-2 passive procs and then your twinket CD/procs. Now, there are so many extra procs to watch and use. Sometimes you get lucky that your important heals land during a proc and other times you feel gimped without those procs and things can be hairy when you need that LoD AE healing spell or Holy shock and they are on CD. Most of our other spells take too long to cast even with talents unless you have passive procs.
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90 Human Paladin
9595
I really wonder if the reason LoD is so powerful is because we're forced to wait to use it for the right time and if we don't we're out of luck for at least 4.5 seconds.
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