Blood and thunder ?? Good or bad

83 Orc Warrior
1770
I jsut wanted to get everyone's opinion on this talent.... if you don't know all it does is refresh rend and spread it to every mob! But are the two points in it worth it.. does it gen enough threat.. or is it just a cool talent to have? If you have had great sucess wit hthis talent then plz expalin why if not plz expalin also =0
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80 Undead Warrior
1960
I like it for aoe tanking, gives a bit more threat and keeps everything attached to you. Plus it's nice for aoe farming. But, If I were respecing for raiding I wouldn't take it.
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85 Orc Shaman
3175
From a 5 man standpoint I find its very nice to due limited mass aoe threat generation. Every little bit helps.

From a raiding standpoint its usefulness will vary encounter to encounter so its kind of hard to say.
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85 Night Elf Warrior
15680
It will be completely mandatory single target and AoE come cataclysm. Get used to it now.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
9360
It's a good talent, but I'm still having difficulty getting used to it.
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85 Blood Elf Warrior
8725
I have 2 prot specs, my AE spec utilizes Blood and Thunder and it's one of the more awesome talents I've used. In raid AE trash pulls it does about 1000 dmg per tick, which, x300% defensive stance multiplier is 1000 tps per target. For staggered adds, cleave off the GCD and Blood and Thunder utilizes a lot of snap + steady threat, that if used correctly makes adds easy as cake.
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If PvE Arms ever gets competitive with Fury, it might be worth taking since Arm's Rend is a pretty good DoT. Spreading it to 10+ mobs will net a lot of damage.
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90 Gnome Warrior
5725
I think Blood and Thunder was one of the better new talents they available for warriors. Its really nice for WoLK heroic grinding with all the aoe-fest going on.

As for raiding, the ability to keep it up with TC makes it more convenient, cuts down on the gcd's you use apposed to rend and TC.
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85 Troll Warrior
2085
im a pve arms. blood and thunder has been a great help to run heroics and kill raid trashes, when there's lotta aoe fights the only class that can even get close to my dps is frost dk due to their howling blast. it doesnt help boss fights and bgs(sometimes fun to use in bgs tho) at all
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90 Night Elf Warrior
6560
For 5 mans its great; can't see tanking without it. For raids, probably less needed, though itcan be used to keep rend just by thunder clapping instead of having to manually re-apply rend.
Edited by Nohman on 11/20/2010 11:44 PM PST
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85 Dwarf Warrior
6380
It will be completely mandatory single target and AoE come cataclysm. Get used to it now.


.... tell me you're kidding. AoE tanking yes of course. But, I'm not really sure how you could come up with that it's mandatory for single target tanking.


I think the loss of deep wounds makes it a requirement, even for single target threat (bosses).

It only takes one gcd to keep it up the entire encounter, since your already keeping thunderclap up.


As for the loss of deep wounds... if you're talking about now then yes... it is pretty awesome cause we dont have that... however come 85 after you have things on farm you could switch to something like this http://wowtal.com/#k=_CM5wYFI.a8t.warrior. which will produce a nice chunk of threat... or this for single target http://wowtal.com/#k=_5s9sWvB.a8t.warrior.
Edited by Vassive on 11/21/2010 5:45 PM PST
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73 Human Paladin
1010
It stupidly good for aoe threat, but will you want it in a single target tanking progression build?
Thats something that we will only know with time.
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85 Night Elf Warrior
15680
It will be completely mandatory single target and AoE come cataclysm. Get used to it now.


.... tell me you're kidding. AoE tanking yes of course. But, I'm not really sure how you could come up with that it's mandatory for single target tanking... barring a rather intense case of down syndrome.


I'm not kidding. When they buffed the AP Scalar on Rend/TC, it was buffed to the point that the TC to refresh rend single target is similar priority to that of a non-shield blocked shield slam. You can go check the math for yourself, if you want. (This doesn't yet apply to live, the changes will probably come in with 4.0.3a, though)
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85 Dwarf Warrior
6380
To be honest ... unless I missed something.. I'm not really sure how you're numbers are reaching that... 4.0.3a is not making any adjustments to TC and Rends base damage and DoT damage are being lowered. The threat gain currently from TC remains the same whether it refreshes rend or not .... now if you take the threat gen from every tic of rend between TC's and add it in to TC threat then that is just slightly less than a non buffed shield slam..(these numbers assuming you're speced for thunderstruck and BnT) you're absolutely right. However, when doing rotations prioritizing TC over HS you cant really HS all too much... and the threat gen from using HS every three seconds (assuming speced for incite) beats out the thunderstruck and bt speced threat of 2 rend tics and a TC every 6 seconds .. I can take down the actual numbers from my parses if you want.. I'm just doing some real quick. Now if you wanna spec for both incite and BnT and Thunderstruck then yeah... the threat would be good... but in alot of situations you might not have the rage and thats 4 talent points wasted if you dont.... they can be better spent elsewhere. When I have more time I'll run these numbers again after tuesday.
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100 Orc Warrior
11750
I think the loss of deep wounds makes it a requirement, even for single target threat (bosses).

It only takes one gcd to keep it up the entire encounter, since your already keeping thunderclap up.


I kinda wish they would've made the talent boost the duration of rend up to 30 seconds, so you only have to refresh it when you refresh thunderclap.

But I guess for a first tier talent that would be a little op, since other specs could get it (not to mention a 30s bleed would be a bit op in itself). Maybe they could've swapped it with Improved Revenge, or Bastion of Defense, to get it lower in the tree.
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85 Tauren Warrior
4750
I think the loss of deep wounds makes it a requirement, even for single target threat (bosses).

It only takes one gcd to keep it up the entire encounter, since your already keeping thunderclap up.


I kinda wish they would've made the talent boost the duration of rend up to 30 seconds, so you only have to refresh it when you refresh thunderclap.

But I guess for a first tier talent that would be a little op, since other specs could get it (not to mention a 30s bleed would be a bit op in itself). Maybe they could've swapped it with Improved Revenge, or Bastion of Defense, to get it lower in the tree.
Personally I use TC every time it's off cd when I'm AoE tanking. For AoE I try to keep cleave, revenge, Shockwave, and Thunderclap on cd all the time. I fill the gaps with Shield Slams and Devastates. I mean I'm not an expert but it just makes sense to me to use Thunderclap every chance you get when you're tanking 4 or more mobs for the even distribution of threat that it gives, even though it's not a huge amount.
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