Ret PvE Post 4.0.1

85 Blood Elf Paladin
3725
Now, the first thing I will say in this post is that this is most likely NOT what Lvl 85 PvE. This is entirely based on my experiences as Ret PvE in a few Wrath raids. Now, lets get on with it...

The first thing that should be noted is that we now use a resource called Holy Power (HP in this post and later ones). This change is what has thrown many former high DPS Paladins into the lowest tiers of raid damage. This is unnecessary. Just a simple rotation change must be done. Currently, our normal, no Wings/Zealotry up, is;

3HP/Hand of Light Templar's Verdict > Art of War Exorcism > Crusader Strike > Judgment > Holy Wrath or Consecration

Now, in Wrath, Art of War was almost always procced, because it was procced from a crit. Now, our auto-attacks proc it 20% of the time. So, this will make it seem slower, so just pace yourself.

Secondly, you must only use Templar's Verdict when you have 3 HP. Never before. Anything else is a DPS loss. Again, this may take time. However, we have a talent to help us: Divine Purpose. This allows your Judgment, Exorcism, Templar's Verdict, Divine Storm, Holy Power, Inquisition, and Hammer of Wrath to generate a Holy Power 40% of the time, so it may not go extremely slow when you get this.

Now, on to Wings. This talent is a staple Paladin ability that is always used. However, it has changed since the patch. Now, you can use Hammer of Wrath (Though a talent in Ret) throughout the duration of Wings. So, the rotation should be something like this:

3HP/HoL TV > AoW Exo > Hammer of Wrath > CS > Judge > HWor Consecrate

Other than the addition of the Hammer of Wrath in our Wings rotation, we need to stagger our CD's. I have noticed that, with current Threat changes, tanks that I have seen have lost aggro when multiple CD's are up. So, at least for now, try to stagger our 2 (3 at 81) CD's. After a Wings duration, use your 3 HP to use Zealotry. This abilities is our 31 point talent. It is our end-all-be-all of our abilities (Sucks, however....). This pretty much allows for a very quick 3HP TV, other talents not-withstanding. Our rotation in a Zealotry CD is:

3HP TV > CS > AoW Exo or Judge

With little room for other abilities, we must make the most use of the duration. With the proper haste (once a fairly useless stat for a Ret Pally), we can have a 3 sec CD CS. This will make the rotation TV > CS always.

Talents. Our defining feature in WoW. Without them, we fail. Hard. Worse than Gnomes. The most useful Ret Spec currently is, at 80; http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#sbbZZcbGsdkszfd. This is the one I use.

Primary Talents

Art of War- A staple proc for a free, instant, 2x Damage Exorcism. This is essential (recorded a 22k crit in HHoR)

Seals of Command- Makes our Seal of Righteousness our lost Seal of Command, and gives bonus white damage. Makes for good damage on trash and a boss.

Rebuke- Cataclysm will make use of the long lost "Crowd Control" that BC had but Wrath forgot. A good interrupt will be necessary in Cata Heroics and Raids, I'm sure.

Repentance- A Pally Gouge. See above.

Just avoid the PvP talents and you'll be fine.

As for level 85, use this; http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#sbhZMZfbGsdkszfd. Basically, you just added another Judgments of the Pure, then Seals of the Pure and Eye for an Eye (Can be taken at 80, your choice).

Glyphs are a little intimidating, and, at least on my server, they are expensive. So, use what you can afford. But get these.

Prime

Exorcism- A fireball mechanic was added to Exo (20% of damage over 6 seconds I believe). This will double that extra damage.

Judgement- Extra Judgment damage is good, and Judgments are used pretty often, so take this extra damage.

Templar's Verdict- Our biggest attack with even more damage? Wheres the AH?

Major Glyphs

Hammer of Wrath- With Wings, Wrath is used often. Make it free, and it's even better.

Holy Wrath- With a change to this spell, it can hit all types of mobs, not just Undead, but only stunning them. This adds Dragons and Elementals to that list.

Ascetic Crusader- This reduces the mana cost of our Crusader Strike, so it can't hurt. And, besides, this is the only other useful Ret glyph.

Minor Glyphs

These are not very important, as they only reduce the mana cost of your Seals and Blessings. Grab both Blessings, then your most used Seal.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3725
Gems/Enchants/Reforging

Gems and Enchants haven't changed much. Mainly just gem Str unless you need a meta bonus, then either Str/Crit (Yellow) or a Str/Sta (Blue), and enchant as much attack as you can.

However, the new Reforging system can fix our most unused, but unavoidable stats, like excess hit.

If you are like me, and you had a lot of excess hit (Like around 14% lol) then convert it to Expertise, at least to the soft cap. However, you can't just get all that expertise from your old hit. Reforging takes 40% or an old stat and change it to another. However, only green stats (excluding resilience and attack power that is still left) and Spirit into one of those.

Say you have more than enough haste on your character, but you have a piece like the Tyrannical Beheader. It has 92 haste rating, plenty for anyone under haste cap (for Ret, enough to make CS a 3 second CD), but if you are already, but you want something else (can't already be on the piece), say expertise. So, change that 92 haste into 56 haste and 36 expertise, allowing you to be dodged/parried less. That is a good idea before Cataclysm, so go ahead and do it.

That is pretty much it. As we head into Cataclysm, and I decide to re-level a paladin (most likely an ally), I'll make a leveling guide to add to the plethora of posts that will most likely on the forums by then. Hope this helped someone that got gimped in 4.0.1. Later guys.
Edited by Juwpiter on 11/20/2010 6:59 PM PST
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7 Tauren Shaman
0
mastery is bad mmmmmmmmmmmkay
yeah, don't reforge to it at all
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22 Human Warlock
8970
Gems/Enchants/Reforging

Gems and Enchants haven't changed much. Mainly just gem Str unless you need a meta bonus, then either Str/Crit (Yellow) or a Str/Sta (Blue), and enchant as much attack as you can.

However, the new Reforging system can fix our most unused, but unavoidable stats, like excess hit.

If you are like me, and you had a lot of excess hit (Like around 14% lol) then convert it to Mastery. However, you can't just get all that mastery from your old hit. .


Avoid Mastery at all costs reforge for hit/ expertise cap then haste. Those 3 are a better dps increase above HoL proc from mastery
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90 Draenei Paladin
0
Might I ask why your build doesn't take Blazing Light? 20% Exo damage seems a lot more worthy than a chance to bounce a little magic damage.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3725
Might I ask why your build doesn't take Blazing Light? 20% Exo damage seems a lot more worthy than a chance to bounce a little magic damage.


Never thought about that. I'll put it into my list. TY.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3725
Gems/Enchants/Reforging

Gems and Enchants haven't changed much. Mainly just gem Str unless you need a meta bonus, then either Str/Crit (Yellow) or a Str/Sta (Blue), and enchant as much attack as you can.

However, the new Reforging system can fix our most unused, but unavoidable stats, like excess hit.

If you are like me, and you had a lot of excess hit (Like around 14% lol) then convert it to Mastery. However, you can't just get all that mastery from your old hit. .


Avoid Mastery at all costs reforge for hit/ expertise cap then haste. Those 3 are a better dps increase above HoL proc from mastery


Guess I'll do that. I don't raid ICC at all, and mostly only raid the weekly and VoA. I've seen that the Mastery isn't bad persay, but I have been seeing that Expertise isn't to important for me. Guess I'll mention that. TY for the input.
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90 Human Paladin
9845
Why do you bother writing a "guide" like post when you have a lot of misinformation in your post? this just confuses a lot of paladins comming in looking for information.
Edited by Celina on 11/20/2010 8:41 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
9845


The first thing that should be noted is that we now use a resource called Holy Power (HP in this post and later ones). This change is what has thrown many former high DPS Paladins into the lowest tiers of raid damage. This is unnecessary. Just a simple rotation change must be done. Currently, our normal, no Wings/Zealotry up, is;

3HP/Hand of Light Templar's Verdict > Art of War Exorcism > Crusader Strike > Judgment > Holy Wrath or Consecration


This rotation is a mistake, first off, there is no "rotation" there is simply a priority list, when you successfully execute the priority, it'll turn into a stable rotation. Your "rotation" listed above isn't a rotation at all, its a priority list (Still wrong regardless).

Here is the correct priority:
HoW > 3HP TV > Crusader Strike > Exorcism > Judgement >Holy Wrath > Consecration.

If you successfully execute your priority, your rotation should end up like this:
CS > Filler > CS > Filler > CS > TV
A filler being defined as anything that is not crusader strike or TV.


Now, on to Wings. This talent is a staple Paladin ability that is always used. However, it has changed since the patch. Now, you can use Hammer of Wrath (Though a talent in Ret) throughout the duration of Wings. So, the rotation should be something like this:

3HP/HoL TV > AoW Exo > Hammer of Wrath > CS > Judge > HWor Consecrate


Use the priority list I given above, the priority is the same regardless if you have wings up or not (though the rotation is not).


~snip~
Our rotation in a Zealotry CD is:

3HP TV > CS > AoW Exo or Judge


Our rotation with Zealotry is CS > TV > CS >TV >CS >TV >CS >TV. You get the point. Although with the new patch where Zealotry is not consuming HP, you simply just pop Zealotry, TV > CS >TV >CS >TV > CS, stopping CS only for HoL procs.



Talents. Our defining feature in WoW. Without them, we fail. Hard. Worse than Gnomes. The most useful Ret Spec currently is, at 80; http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#sbbZZcbGsdkszfd. This is the one I use.


You should use 1/2 Acts of Sacrifice and max out Judgement of the Pure instead.



Prime

Exorcism- A fireball mechanic was added to Exo (20% of damage over 6 seconds I believe). This will double that extra damage.

Judgement- Extra Judgment damage is good, and Judgments are used pretty often, so take this extra damage.

Templar's Verdict- Our biggest attack with even more damage? Wheres the AH?


The three best primes so far according to theorycraft is: CS, TV, Seal of Truth, they are all better than Judgement and Exorcism glyph.

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90 Human Paladin
9845
Gems/Enchants/Reforging

Gems and Enchants haven't changed much. Mainly just gem Str unless you need a meta bonus, then either Str/Crit (Yellow) or a Str/Sta (Blue), and enchant as much attack as you can.

Consider gemming Str/Hit for blue sockets, excess hit is not really excess anymore, since you can simply reforge it to something else, so in a way, Hit still indirectly provides you with a dps gain through reforge, where as stamina does nothing.

If you are having trouble reach haste soft cap, Str/Haste may be better than Str/Crit, the value of Crit and Haste are fairly close.



If you are like me, and you had a lot of excess hit (Like around 14% lol) then convert it to Expertise, at least to the soft cap. However, you can't just get all that expertise from your old hit. Reforging takes 40% or an old stat and change it to another. However, only green stats (excluding resilience and attack power that is still left) and Spirit into one of those.


You should reforge haste/crit into Hit/Expertise until you hit cap for both, then, reforge any excess hit/expertise into haste/crit.


Say you have more than enough haste on your character, but you have a piece like the Tyrannical Beheader. It has 92 haste rating, plenty for anyone under haste cap (for Ret, enough to make CS a 3 second CD), but if you are already, but you want something else (can't already be on the piece), say expertise. So, change that 92 haste into 56 haste and 36 expertise, allowing you to be dodged/parried less. That is a good idea before Cataclysm, so go ahead and do it.

If you're using Tyrannical Beheader, its rather unlikely that you have enough gear for haste cap, but regardless, if you're under hit/expertise cap, those are always better than haste, even if your CS CD isn't down to three seconds.
Edited by Celina on 11/20/2010 9:06 PM PST
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80 Draenei Paladin
7360
^^^^ This. Also some of us don't need Seal of Truth glyph due to expertise cap, so we use CS, TV, and Exorcism.
Edited by Whitechapel on 11/20/2010 9:07 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
9845
^^^^ This. Also some of us don't need Seal of Truth glyph due to expertise cap, so we use CS, TV, and Exorcism.


This is true, but remember Seal of Truth is still the single most significant stats gain, 10 expertise is huge, and free, with reforging and the diversity of the available ICC Gear, personally I think there will always be a room for Seal of Truth glyph and simply roll the expertise into something else with reforge.

but yea, if you don't have spare gear to shuffle around, or for reforging, then Exorcism glyph is probably the next best choice.
Edited by Celina on 11/20/2010 9:15 PM PST
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80 Draenei Paladin
7360
I would personally do that and attempt to dump 10 expertise rating off of my gear through reforging but... theres 2 weeks left of Cataclysm, not really the most amount of care for Min/Maxing at this point. Granted as soon as leveling hits and I start losing stats such as expertise, I will go back to the glyph because like you stated, 10 expertise at virtually no cost is pretty huge.
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90 Human Paladin
9845
Yah, especially also you'll be attacking mobs from the front, making anti parries a bit more relevant, although I'm not 100% sure if conventional dps theory craft applies to leveling, personally I think crit and mastery is king for leveling with the fights being to short, it might be better to max burst damage, back to back HoL proc, mob dead, move on to the next guy!
Edited by Celina on 11/20/2010 9:23 PM PST
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80 Draenei Paladin
7360
It most likely could be for leveling, then again... it's leveling. Pretty sure I can smash my face on my keyboard and things will die somehow. At least that much hasn't change about Paladins! I just wish I had a Skillmourne to do it with :[ Oh well I heard there was some wicked level 82 blues to replace it with.
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90 Human Paladin
9845
I'm very picky with my weapons.. didn't replace Torch of the Damned until some blue weapon in Halls of Stone when I was leveling from TBC > Wrath =O

Not sure if leveling would be as easy though.. I remember soloing all those elite group quest monsters, with sword + shield, Seal of Light + Judgement of light, use FoL procs to keep myself alive while I slowly grind them down...

Since we lost all that... =( qq!
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80 Draenei Paladin
7360
But we gained Word of Glory in return! >.>
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80 Draenei Paladin
7360
I would personally do that and attempt to dump 10 expertise rating off of my gear through reforging but... theres 2 weeks left of Cataclysm, not really the most amount of care for Min/Maxing at this point. Granted as soon as leveling hits and I start losing stats such as expertise, I will go back to the glyph because like you stated, 10 expertise at virtually no cost is pretty huge.


after reading this post no wonder you got the shoulders first, All makes sense now.

You really cant afford 20g to reforge expertise to haste? nice.


That clearly makes sense. Maybe you missed the part about me not caring or were you too busy being full of yourself to read.
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