Heroic BPC

17 Night Elf Hunter
90
We wiped on this for three hours last night. We tried three tanking - two tanking tala/vala. Three healed it the whole time.

It felt like when we switched to three tanks we weren't anywhere close. Closest attempt was 700k or about 15%. This was 2 tanking. We tried hero at start. We tried No dps on keleseth, just when keleseth was empowered everyone try to get back into position

I know the middle simi-circle is for healers but what happens if an empowered vortex spawns and you need to get out of the way of that? The room is so big isn't it possible to be more forgiving?

Do you have your melee run to keleseth when he's empowered to dps him or have them just back off and wait for tala/vala to come back up. Seems like having the mele run to keleseth (and then run back) would needlessly build shadow prison stacks and get in healers/ranged way.



Any thoughts on this?
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17 Night Elf Hunter
90
It feels like relative positioning is the key and less so about "go stand on x and tank boss on y"

Feels like at first you have that mentality but then adjust to fit where emp-vortex spawns or where kinetic bombs are falling.

We were putting a ranged on the stage for bombs up there but then she was in the way of melee coming out for regular vortex
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17 Night Elf Hunter
90
I definitely wouldnt be two healing this.

Mainly asking about two vs. three tanks and relative positioning.

How about melee running to keleseth? Seems like an unecessary amount of shadow prison for this fight as it's not a dps race
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17 Night Elf Hunter
90
K - ill see if we can try this way.

It needs to be 2 tanked as our strat had been to split the room up for bombs - not dedicate one person as we're trying to minimize shadow prison for the healers to focus on the targets of their abilities.

If we have a hunter running all over the room for bombs won't his prison build too high?
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32 Blood Elf Priest
0
If we have a hunter running all over the room for bombs won't his prison build too high?


Only if he's in CONSTANT motion.

4-5 seconds of running, followed by 10-15 seconds of standing still, won't stack Shadow Prison very high at all.
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90 Night Elf Druid
12200
Splitting the room up can work just fine. Not saying Panzerkin's way won't work though. It's sorta up to figuring out what works best for you.

You never really mentioned what was wiping you. The issue my guild had when first learning it was the beach balls hitting the ground and tossing everyone around, if even one hits the ground it typically results in one or more deaths. To deal with that we usually have two different ranged dps assigned to nothing but the beach balls. One watching each side of the room.

That said, we're a 25 man guild so dropping to three dps on the boss in 10 man didn't cause us too much trouble.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5805
Splitting the room up can work just fine. Not saying Panzerkin's way won't work though. It's sorta up to figuring out what works best for you.

You never really mentioned what was wiping you. The issue my guild had when first learning it was the beach balls hitting the ground and tossing everyone around, if even one hits the ground it typically results in one or more deaths. To deal with that we usually have two different ranged dps assigned to nothing but the beach balls. One watching each side of the room.

That said, we're a 25 man guild so dropping to three dps on the boss in 10 man didn't cause us too much trouble.


Yeah we just assign one ranged to left side of the room and one ranged to the right (if we have a third ranged we have them watch and stand up on the stage). I'm sure one person can take care of all the kinetic bombs, but it's overly stressful to do so since they fall so fast in heroic.
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17 Night Elf Hunter
90
Part of the time it's the keleseth tank being killed - part of the time it's bombs hitting -

It never seems like the same mistake each time. People getting knocked around from vortex. Ranged not wanting to move cause their prison is too high so a bomb falls. Ranged not seeing bombs due to latency or not reacting fast enuf. Ranged running for a bomb and hitting a vortex. Mele running to keleseth and hitting vortex. People/tanks moving away during vortex and out ranging healers.

Its just a mess - I remember feeling that on normal the first few times but heroic with prison and the speed of the bombs means kiting the flame orbs is complicated and any lag at all with your ranged on the bombs is very unforgiving. Also, being down to 4 dps before accounting for bombs means we effectively have 3 dps using three tanks. I know this figh isn't a dps check but the longer it takes the more bad stuff happens and heals go OOM
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17 Night Elf Hunter
90
Three tanking the best we got was healers going oom at about 40% and bombs starting to fall cause people are dying.

Two tanking like I said we got them to 700k. Before the tala/vala tank went down.
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90 Night Elf Druid
12200
Keleseth tank dying - Is your Keleseth tank aware that s/he can largely ignore shadow prison? The resistances from the orbs affect shadow prison as well, our Keleseth tank frequently ends the fight with 99 stacks of shadow prison.

Also make sure people aren't doing anything to pull orbs off of the Keleseth tank.

If the people assigned to the kinetic bombs are not reacting to the kinetic bombs fast enough then they are probably busy trying to damage the boss. Tell them to stop that. They should do nothing other than look for bombs and keep them in the air.

If people are out ranging healers try changing the positioning of your healers slightly. We try to position healers so that at least one of them can always reach people, no matter where that person is standing.

Keep in mind Shadow Prison isn't a huge deal, moving when you need to move is still more important. Yes, you want to limit how high it gets, but that should be accomplished by limiting when you need to move, not by not moving when you need to move.
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17 Night Elf Hunter
90
Ya - we weren't assigning a person to cover the bombs but assigning people to cover areas. With a Mage, lock, hunter we split it up into 1/3 of the room for each. Otherwise the ranged are on the boss. Telling those three to only get bombs would leave boss dps to mele only - one/two people. They're very good dps combined about 20k, but thats only on 2/3 of the time as keleseth is empowered they shouldnt be running to him to dps. So I'm thinking since the hunter is usually the less dps - still very strong but comparatively speaking only, to have hunter on bombs full time. And have him call out for help early and often.

Having two tanks - hunter on bombs and mele not running feels like the way to go.

This leaves 4dps - a combined of 48k dps on 2/3 bosses and about 18k on the other. This should get us thru much quicker.

Prison - has the same feel as unbound plague. It is either nothing if you don't let it get to you or it can wipe you. Keleseth tank knows prison won't hurt him but I really don't know what's causing him to die - not everytime mind you - but that was on example where he did die.
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17 Night Elf Hunter
90
That kind of dps puts the fight at 3 1/2 mins - we were living past that point as far as survival goes but the time was spent on bombs/running/etc.

5+ mins and the healers are going oom.
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87 Draenei Priest
12630
Try and find a way to squeeze DPS on Keleseth, you'll reduce time to die and that way give less time for your groupmates to screw up in some way. If you had DPS'd Keleseth on that 700k pull it would've been a kill.

On 10-man you can fit the entire raid in the mid circle, just try positioning people in a W or something similar to get more out of it.

Pets can take care of bombs regardless of their position in the room, so if you have hunters/warlocks/unholy DKs they can stick their pet to an orb and as long as it sticks to it you'll be fine. If you have 2+ that takes care of almost everything by itself.
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17 Night Elf Hunter
90
Ah - the locks pet too! Ok - we'll try that as well

What's this - all the raid in front of the stage? Does that completely negate empowered vortex? Surely you mean only healers & ranged?

Would mean practically 0 running for flame orb too...

Hmmmmm all empowered abilities negated by positioning? Could it be that easy?
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