is this the healer's job

90 Pandaren Shaman
21315
If your role is set to healer in a dungeon, it is your job to heal. If healing that person will cause someone performing better (or more important such as the tank) to die, you should heal the person performing better over the one that isn't. There is no reason to let someone die who is making a mistake when you can keep them alive. You can tell them they are making a mistake after the pull while you're following someone but to slow down your group's progress because you feel as though you are above healing people who are making silly mistakes doesn't make you any better.
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All healing them does is encourage the bad behavior to continue. They will then keep doing the bad habit until they reach a healer that cant keep up then complain at them and call them the worst healer ever when they die.

Ive seen it with ungemmed unenchanted tanks in lfr saying i did this run last week and had no issues the healers in this group are bad. Meanwhile fully buffed they are at 450k hp lowest in the group btw and sporting agility rings and a green sword as a warrior why because i dont know f it.

The line has to be drawn somewhere toss a shield or a bubble on them to get a chance to move out of the bad if they fail to move let them die.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16095
Our job is to keep the group standing. The group. We do this by healing people individually. If someone becomes a liability to the group, you dedicate your resources elsewhere.

Basically, keep people up as long as you can, and when you actually have to make a choice about who to heal, choose the people who aren't hurting the group. Choose who to let die, when you have to.
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90 Gnome Monk
14710
No, it's not in your job description. You choose to do so - and by doing so, you enable bad players to ignore mechanics. And the next healer who comes along - who may not be as geared or skilled as you are - will have a much harder time when they simply can't keep up, which will almost certainly result in the healer being yelled at by DPS who now feel entitled to be healed up regardless of their decision to stand in the fire in the first place. In short, you are training players to be bad.


Leveling a mage recently I saw this crop up a few times in those lovely Cata dungeons. People would either ignore mechanics or just flat out do the fight Wrong. I was forced to jump in, defend the healer, and explain the fight.

I don't mind explaining fights. In fact I kind of enjoy it since I've done stuff when it was current (excepting Vanilla, I only healed) as every role. I do mind having to defuse a tense situation caused by people too proud to admit ignorance so they turn around and point fingers.
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90 Night Elf Druid
12560
I'm actually pretty offended by having the statement that I personally am training people to be bad repeatedly quoted and everything I said about educating players with methods other than death being disregarded. >.> I am not solely responsible for bad players in dungeons.

The fact that I choose to educate by discussion instead of letting someone die does not make me a bad healer or a bad-player-encourager. I put more effort into helping new players or dumb players or !@#$%^- players than I probably should considering I will never see them again, but that's because I feel it's worth the time to actually try helping people instead of just letting them die and hoping they figure it out.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14970
I will heal everything and anything, although I will tell people that they are standing in poo if they are doing so. I will also ask people (nicely) for interrupts on particularly annoying mechanics. I do this in random dungeons, I do this in LFR, and I do this on every healing toon I have.

If people still feel like poo-standing is the way to go, Lifegrip and BoP are far more effective "teaching" tools than simply letting them die.

"Heal me!"

*BoP*

"WTF?"

"Well, you aren't taking damage now, are you?"


Agreed. But tell me you haven't had one that just ran right back into the Poo? Because I see that alllll the damn time.

*Lifegrip!*

"Hey!"

"You were standing in the-"

*DPS runs right back in*

"Well okay, then. Have fun dying."
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90 Pandaren Priest
14970
I'm actually pretty offended by having the statement that I personally am training people to be bad repeatedly quoted and everything I said about educating players with methods other than death being disregarded. >.> I am not solely responsible for bad players in dungeons.

The fact that I choose to educate by discussion instead of letting someone die does not make me a bad healer or a bad-player-encourager. I put more effort into helping new players or dumb players or !@#$%^- players than I probably should considering I will never see them again, but that's because I feel it's worth the time to actually try helping people instead of just letting them die and hoping they figure it out.


I want to point something out to you. This is what you originally said:

I respectfully disagree. xD The healers job is to heal, even when mistakes are made and the ish hits the fan and someone isn't very good at avoiding things and every other permutation.

Will I try to educate them? Of course. My methods of education simply don't include "letting them die and slowing down everything." Hehe.

I know, I know, unpopular opinion.


To which I replied (emphasis mine):

It's not in my job description to heal people deliberately taking avoidable damage.


I posted this because, from what you had posted, it honestly came across as you saying, "Oh, I try to tell them to get out of the fire, but when they don't, or ignore me, I heal them anyway, because I like to heal people who deliberately stand in fire."

That apparent viewpoint was further emphasized when you posted this in response to me saying it was not in my job description to heal people deliberately taking avoidable damage:

12/30/2013 09:18 AMPosted by Bunny
Well, it is in mine. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. :P I LIKE when people take more damage.


So yes, what I said does apply. If what you posted is correct, and you simply lie there like a doormat if the DPS ignore your warnings and continue to deliberately stand in anything and everything, then yes, you are enabling and training bad behavior. And, of course, you are causing the next healer who comes along to have a more difficult time - especially if that healer has less gear than you do, or is less skilled.

If, however, you were simply engaging in hyperbole, or were not meaning to come across in the manner that you did, then it doesn't apply to you. Because that, quite frankly, would be silly for me to say. I would also point out that you knew - by your own words - that your viewpoint would be unpopular. I don't know why you would be surprised that people would call you on your viewpoint and disagree.
Edited by Tiriél on 12/31/2013 10:52 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
12560
Because I also said:

If they're trolling in a way that makes me incapable of sustaining the group, I might let them die then - but that's such a rare circumstance - and I am more likely to heal them MORE to spite them. :P Usually people standing in bad is just people who don't know better or tunnel vision.


But healing a troll to kill them with kindness is not the same as letting bad players remain bad by carrying them. Carrying bad players is indeed something I will do, but not without a healthy dose of discussion alongside it. Maybe they hate me, I am the Naggy Lecturer. :P I am the person who wrote macros for Garalon in LFR, I am the person who links the dungeon journal before a pull, I am the person actually talks in LFD and explains how to do the Heroic Scenario. >.>

I mean honestly, the amount of people I have encountered who deliberately stand in bad stuff because yolo/trolling/to make the healer work (??) is so limited as to be mythical like a unicorn. More often than not, people are clueless or newb or tunnel visiony and discussion + healing resolves the issue.

I know that my opinion of healing people instead of letting them die is unpopular - and it makes me sad. A healer choosing to heal players rather than let them die to teach them a lesson or prove a point being the exception and not the norm is pretty damn sad.

What I would hope to teach struggling new healers is how powerful they can be, how much they can help others and educate them, how important it is to know about fight mechanics for themselves and to explain them to others. I want new healers to know that sometimes someone dying is inevitable and NOT their fault, but also that deliberately letting players die to prove a point should not be the first resort.

I'm an idealist I guess. But I learned about healing from the ground up just like most folks, and after all these years I feel like there is a better kinder way to get things done.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12005
I would not consider you being mean for not healing people in the bad. You toss a heal or two their way and if they continue to stand in it. THEY SHOULD DIE. Just like any other game. You learn from your mistakes. If you choose to point them out. That is up to you but, to heal them just encourages poor play. They then become less urgent to move out of bad because that one time they didn't die right away. These situations don't come up too often this expansion though. Most of my let them die experiences were during cata. A time where needlessly healing dps was NOT an option. This is when I first learned to heal seriously and its something I've just carried with me.
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90 Goblin Shaman
13100
You also have to take into perspective that the OP was leveling a priest. Their gear is not going to be the grand gear that everyone else is wearing like LFR/Flex/Normal/Heroic SoO gear. They probably don't have the throughput healing and mana regen to back up healing the stupid. We may be overly geared for heroics and the damage is trivial for our gear level but not for them.

At lower levels on any of my healers I will give them about a 3sec grace period that I will heal them if they are standing in bad, if they continue to stay in it and not make the attempt to move, I will let them die. There is no point in wasting mana on someone who can't follow the most basic mechanic in the game, I'll instead heal the people who are doing their job properly.
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im leveling a priest at 87 right now and im tired of putting tons of effort into keeping ppl alive from just standing in aoe damage, some of the high damage stuff that ppl stand in deplete my mana preventing me from doing real healing just to keep idiots alive


It's a DPSers responsibility to move out of bad stuff. Do what you gotta do to keep them alive, but don't burn all your mana over it. If/when they die and raise a stink about it (I can't remember the last time this ever happened. They just 'ty' after being rezzed), say something like "Yeah well, you died and we didn't. You've been outvoted. Watch where you're standing from now on." Teach him to fish so he eats for a lifetime, but don't do it for him. ;]
Edited by Joeblow on 1/1/2014 1:02 AM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
8800
I love having the luxury of deciding whether to heal someone taking avoidable damage.

If that player is really a mess, say something simple and direct to him/her. (Passive-aggressive, sarcasm, epithets, and hints are never reliable.)
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90 Tauren Druid
11350
Healing people is the healers job. It doesn't really matter why they are taking damage. Refusing to heal them just holds the group back. As a healer you have a lot of power to carry any group and get stuff done. I suggest sucking up and healing harder. :P


This 1000%. You are a support character. Your job is to support people. Complain and ask them nicely to not stand in bad, but if they still do heal to the best of your ability anyway. Being an $$$ about it doesn't help anyone and only makes you look bad.
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90 Goblin Shaman
6490
Honestly, if healing is annoying you at lvl 87 when you're facerolling through the simpleton 5-mans, you should just give it up. It doesn't get any easier (it's already super easy). Heal the DPS and get over yourself.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14970
Honestly, if healing is annoying you at lvl 87 when you're facerolling through the simpleton 5-mans, you should just give it up. It doesn't get any easier (it's already super easy). Heal the DPS and get over yourself.


87 as a Priest is actually quite hard, especially as you start getting put into the more difficult dungeons, yet you have very little Spirit overall. It does, however, get better, with gear. Please don't discourage players who have an interest in healing. He doesn't need to "get over" himself. He asked a simple question.

This 1000%. You are a support character. Your job is to support people. Complain and ask them nicely to not stand in bad, but if they still do heal to the best of your ability anyway. Being an $$$ about it doesn't help anyone and only makes you look bad.


As I said before, I disagree - primarily because you're teaching bad DPS to be bad. I do firmly believe in warning a player, and giving them time to respond. But if they're just standing in bad because they can? Don't heal them. You're enabling bad behavior.

And no, it doesn't make you look bad to let someone who is being an idiot kill himself. You know what makes you look bad? Enabling bad DPS to continue being bad. You're not helping them. You're not helping yourself. If anything, you're hurting them in the long run, because no one with a lick of sense is going to take a terrible DPS to raid who plants his sorry butt in fire and refuses to move under the mistaken impression that he's entitled to be healed through anything. Pew pewing the boss isn't the only responsibility DPS have - they also have the responsibility to avoid taking as much damage as possible.
Edited by Tiriél on 1/1/2014 1:08 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
3180
My principle: MANA MANAGEMENT. I can try and want to heal any situation, it's really good practice. As long as MANA is there. ;)
I had a guy take mobs by himself in Stonecore, while tank and other 2 DPS's were fighting in a different corner. The guy who went off on his own could take real damage, but at a level 80-something dungeon, you can't survive on your own with a group of mobs on you.

So after I told him I am spending more mana on him alone than all the rest of us, I stopped trying so hard to keep him at full health. When he saw there were no more green numbers running his way, he calmed down and we had a smooth run.
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90 Draenei Shaman
11195
12/29/2013 09:07 PMPosted by Zoevil
If coaching is not working, I will assume that the player is trying to kill their toon and stop interfering.


I love you for saying that! <3
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90 Goblin Shaman
6490
01/01/2014 01:06 AMPosted by Tiriél
Honestly, if healing is annoying you at lvl 87 when you're facerolling through the simpleton 5-mans, you should just give it up. It doesn't get any easier (it's already super easy). Heal the DPS and get over yourself.


87 as a Priest is actually quite hard, especially as you start getting put into the more difficult dungeons, yet you have very little Spirit overall. It does, however, get better, with gear. Please don't discourage players who have an interest in healing. He doesn't need to "get over" himself. He asked a simple question.


I have a lvl 90 priest that I played in dungeons while leveling. No, it wasn't hard. I think I even pretty much did atonement healing for 95% of the runs.

The answer to his "question" is obviously yes. But he wasn't really asking a question. He was complaining.
Edited by Weepea on 1/1/2014 7:19 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
12380
Healers need a nerf in arenas, rated/random bgs.

So tired of seeing disc priests use their bubble shooter and absorb all my damage.

Especially those female healers, of any healer class that like to jump while healing and
have their helmet hidden.


This has nothing remotely to do with this thread, at all.

/jumpsaround
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