is this the healer's job

90 Troll Priest
19390
Its your job to keep people alive. Even if they stand in the bad. At the end of the day letting them die lowers dps and causes the dungeon to go slower. Keep them alive, and work with it. When them standing in !@#$ gets to the point where you can't keep them alive, I would ask them to make an adjustment.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10625
As I said before, I disagree - primarily because you're teaching bad DPS to be bad. I do firmly believe in warning a player, and giving them time to respond. But if they're just standing in bad because they can? Don't heal them. You're enabling bad behavior.

And no, it doesn't make you look bad to let someone who is being an idiot kill himself. You know what makes you look bad? Enabling bad DPS to continue being bad. You're not helping them. You're not helping yourself. If anything, you're hurting them in the long run, because no one with a lick of sense is going to take a terrible DPS to raid who plants his sorry butt in fire and refuses to move under the mistaken impression that he's entitled to be healed through anything. Pew pewing the boss isn't the only responsibility DPS have - they also have the responsibility to avoid taking as much damage as possible.

But you don't know why they're doing it unless they straight up tell you.

For all you know, you've got someone like my dad in your group. He's 51 and he just started playing WoW last year. It's not his first video game (he's been playing those since Pong came out), but it's his first 3D game. It's not his first RPG (he's been playing those since the original D&D), but it's first non-turn-based RPG. He's smart, but this is a complicated game - it's taken him a while to figure out the different rules and conventions, and he still doesn't have the fastest reaction time.

When he encounters a new mechanic, he needs to live long enough to figure it out, and then he needs to live long enough on subsequent encounters to get better at noticing and avoiding it. If you're the impatient sort, you might conclude he was standing on fire on purpose. But he's not.

He's not trying to raid. I don't think he's even done LFR yet, although I've been encouraging him to try it with the guild. But he did some leveling dungeons on his mage, and he might do some more on his other characters, and I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to do. They're designed so you can make quite a lot of mistakes without demanding exceptional play from anyone else.

I don't think you should assume that everyone you encounter in dungeons is an aspiring raider. I'm in a big social guild, and only roughly 30 out of 300 active members raid in any organized fashion. The rest of them still do dungeons and scenarios.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13515
12/31/2013 11:21 PMPosted by Kairaja
Healing people is the healers job. It doesn't really matter why they are taking damage. Refusing to heal them just holds the group back. As a healer you have a lot of power to carry any group and get stuff done. I suggest sucking up and healing harder. :P


This 1000%. You are a support character. Your job is to support people. Complain and ask them nicely to not stand in bad, but if they still do heal to the best of your ability anyway. Being an $$$ about it doesn't help anyone and only makes you look bad.


This -10000%. Yes I'm a support character. No I'm not your personal slave. I'm not refusing to heal them out of spite, I'll throw them a HoT that will at least prevent them from dying for 5 seconds. As a wow player(not just dps, including healers and tanks) you should keep an eye on your health and your surrounding. Tunneling is bad, no matter what stage you are at.

Unavoidable damage? Yes you can depend on me to heal that. Minor derps? Sure, no problem, here's a heal for you. I-don't-care-what-is-happening-around-me-I-just-want-to-dps-even-if-I'm-standing-in-a-pool-of-acid-slowly-melting-my-bones-away? Since you wanna die so much, I'll just let you. This kind of behaviour encourages the freakingly stupid LFR group majorities. Most annoying thing I hear from LFR: Lol, it's lfr, we don't need to do mechanics. Let's just tunnel and burn boss while ignoring fire on the floor right underneath our feet cooking our balls to perfection. Let the healers slave away trying to keep us alive and if we wipe, we'll find the scrubbiest of them all and vote kick him.

You can point it out to people that they're standing in bad, but sometimes you will get replies which pisses you off even more. lol noob healer. Shut up and heal. I myself believe in education through experience. Every time you keep them up in the fire it tells them that there's not bad consequences in standing in fire. Let them die once or twice and they'll quickly learn not to stand in fire.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14970
I don't think you should assume that everyone you encounter in dungeons is an aspiring raider. I'm in a big social guild, and only roughly 30 out of 300 active members raid in any organized fashion. The rest of them still do dungeons and scenarios.


You missed the part where I said I would warn them first (or even pull them out as a Priest).
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90 Human Paladin
6610
I'll heal stupid in most cases, and even encourage it in heroics I heal to try and make it at least slightly challenging (now that everyone severely outgears them it's kind of a joke to take heroics seriously). I'll say up front that they should do their worst to try and die.

Sometimes we wipe but its a lot more fun than a noneventful, boring run, and if we don't wipe it goes a lot faster too when people don't worry about threat or how many mobs we've got on us.
Edited by Aelzen on 1/3/2014 8:07 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
11580
This 1000%. You are a support character. Your job is to support people. Complain and ask them nicely to not stand in bad, but if they still do heal to the best of your ability anyway. Being an $$$ about it doesn't help anyone and only makes you look bad.


I don't mind the occasional "oopsie" and those that just don't know better, but if it's pointed out to you to not stand in the bad stuff and you continually do it, then you'll maybe get a rejuv from me and that's it.

Healers are there to heal unavoidable damage. I don't heal people that deliberately ignore their surroundings and expect me to save them time and time again.

It's fine if people want to support that type of behavior, but using "You're a bad healer if you don't" as a means to justify it, is just plain silly.
Edited by Sherbear on 1/3/2014 8:21 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
14045
To summarize the hilarity...

Healers are only meant to heal avoidable damage (???)
Healing players that are taking damage is supporting bad play (???)
Healers magically know the minds of other players and know that standing in bad is on purpose so those players don't deserve to be healed (????)

Thank god I am a healer and not in y'alls groups. :P

For funzies, let's talk about SOME of the reasons a player may be standing in bad in a 5 man that are NOT trolling (aka the one reason you should legit on purpose not because of triage not heal them):

bad graphics
lag
boss too big to see bad stuff
UI malfunction
cat in front of monitor
does not speak english
color-blind
first time in dungeon
new to group content
new to wow
amputee playing with one hand
arthritis
had to pick up crying baby mid-pull
does not understand bad
needs to experience to learn
tank won't move stuff out of bad for melee
mouse batteries died
dog barfed in shoe

i could go on...
Edited by Bunny on 1/3/2014 10:34 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Priest
9665
If coaching is not working, I will assume that the player is trying to kill their toon and stop interfering.


I love you for saying that! <3


Hey I'm from a state where assisted suicide is legal, who am I to get in the way of someone trying to humanely (or not) euthanize their toon. =D

Also... I've spent a lot of time working in customer service call centers.... might have made me a touch cynical.... lol
Edited by Zoevil on 1/3/2014 11:02 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
14970
To summarize the hilarity...

Healers are only meant to heal avoidable damage (???)
Healing players that are taking damage is supporting bad play (???)
Healers magically know the minds of other players and know that standing in bad is on purpose so those players don't deserve to be healed (????)

Thank god I am a healer and not in y'alls groups. :P


No one said anything like that. Seriously, Fluffy, stop using straw men.

Healers are designed to heal unavoidable damage + occasional oopsies.
Healing players that are deliberately taking avoidable damage is supporting bad play.
Healers that have warned the players to please move out of fire, or have manually moved them themselves know that if the players run right back into the same avoidable damage they don't deserve to be healed.

There, I fixed that for you. I even bolded and underlined the relevant portions you apparently "missed" so that maybe this time you'll actually read it. Since you enjoy putting words in other people's mouths and ignoring what people have actually said. If you want to White Knight for people, go right ahead, but don't think that you're doing anything but making yourself look a fool.
Edited by Tiriél on 1/3/2014 11:26 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
11580
To summarize the hilarity...

Healers are only meant to heal avoidable damage (???)
Healing players that are taking damage is supporting bad play (???)
Healers magically know the minds of other players and know that standing in bad is on purpose so those players don't deserve to be healed (????)


You should try reading what people are actually writing and not what it is you want to see.
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90 Human Paladin
8415
depends. mechanic wise yes it is our job because sometimes believe it or not you MUST soak up aoe dmg. then their are other times where idiots stand in stuff they dont need to or shouldn't. if they are doing this then simply let them die. if you can heal through it do so like in dungeons but raids i just let them die if they are standing in it for more then 4-5 seconds.

people NEED to learn how not to stand in crap when not necessary. healing isn't easy you have to deal with idiots 24/7. may it be the tank, other healers, or dps. i dont mind your trying to learn how to play but their are people who just dont care at all. i dont have mana for days i do go OOM all us healers do.

if they want to complain that you suck let them if they even kick you thats good for you because then you dont need to deal with idiots. people like that are stuck questing and doing dungeons all their lives it's simple mechanics you cannot even follow it you have no hope in raiding. btw LFR is NOT raiding.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
8540
Before I begin, my first post was highly simplistic, and was really only supposed to apply in situations where the avoidable damage is causing the healer undue stress making them incapable of keeping the rest of the group alive.
However, this list caught my eye...
bad graphics
lag
boss too big to see bad stuff
UI malfunction
cat in front of monitor
does not speak english
color-blind
first time in dungeon
new to group content
new to wow
amputee playing with one hand
arthritis
had to pick up crying baby mid-pull
does not understand bad
needs to experience to learn
tank won't move stuff out of bad for melee
mouse batteries died
dog barfed in shoe


I would say out of your list, Colorblind and does not speak English are not valid reasons to be in fire.(I would even possibly say Amputee and Arthritis are bad reasons too. I used to raid with an amputee who had arthritis in his hand and he was still able to stay out of bad. However, I have seen people who can't cope with their disability as well as he did.)
A lot of them can be fixed, but are usually not that big of an issue.

Now, the reasons I say Colorblind and Non-English Speaking are terrible excuses.
1) I am colorblind. There is NOTHING about my condition that makes me unable to move out of fire. Even if the color is the same, the texture is usually different, AND WoW has built in colorblind shaders which work very well.
2) Moving out of the fire is an intelligence thing, not a language thing. Your language has no bearing on your ability to get out of bad things.

Also, if your tank isn't moving stuff out of bad, you need to be yelling at the tank anyway, not the DPS. And you've probably got a squishy tank anyway, so you're going to have to devote extra to keeping it alive, thus being unable to keep the melee up too.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14970
01/03/2014 01:52 PMPosted by Chrysippus
2) Moving out of the fire is an intelligence thing, not a language thing. Your language has no bearing on your ability to get out of bad things.


Random thought reading this - wouldn't it be cool if WoW had an "auto translate" function built into the chat? Where you could type a word and get short phrases that would automatically translate to whatever language the client of the other player was using?

It looks like this in Final Fantasy: http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/65/pnyj.png

It's limited, and doesn't always work for every situation, but it sure would be nice to be able to communicate like that. Also: Google Translate does work (I've used it when dealing with some Portuguese players who didn't understand English).
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10625
Autotranslate would be great. I've tossed around the idea of writing a mod that does it (it would be super easy from a programming standpoint), but the impact would obviously be limited to people who have the mod, and I'd need to somehow collect a bunch of people to translate phrases for the 'dictionary'.
Edited by Kaels on 1/3/2014 3:34 PM PST
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90 Draenei Priest
12000
I healed in games before this so I'm good at estimating how fast/hard I have to heal depending on how hard/fast someone is taking damage. If I decide it's not worth how much mana I have to pump into them to keep them alive, I let them drop. This is especially when more valuable targets need your attention, like the tank. At least in pve you usually have time to say "Sorry I can't/won't out heal that green stuff you were standing in", rez them and move along.

In pvp this is even more fun because you can add that and additionally "you're never EVER going to kill that guy" and stop heals and run away XD But pvp is more about your own survival too, as in, I can't afford to heal you THAT hard and keep myself alive as well. Ah healer decisions huh?
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88 Draenei Shaman
3345
Leveling this toon I’ve been encountering a lot of DPSers that take avoidable damage. But I usually heal them.

The thing is, I’m mostly using Healing Rain and Chain Heal anyway, so anyone remotely near where they ought to be should be catching enough heals to stay up. I’m not sure if all healers are built that way now, but with a Resto Shaman I’m likely to heal the whole party whether I want to or not.

The only time I find myself letting people die is when the party splits. I’m not likely to run out of mana at this level, and my AOE and smart heals are plenty powerful enough, but when I can heal one group of players or another, but not both, I have to prioritize.

If a DPSer went off to grab a group on their own, then usually I’ll heal them when they are in range to hit them with one of my group heals. If the party splits because I have aggro and someone stayed back to peel things off of me while the tank went and grabbed more groups, then I prioritize healing myself and whichever DPSer is protecting me.

But other than that, Healing Rain is like cheating, so as long as the party kind of stays together I can probably handle healing everyone. Even if the DPSer standing in the stupid is not in the Healing Rain, as long as I have that ticking on the tank I can probably turn around and heal the stupid.

I guess what I’m saying is that I try to heal everyone, but I have priorities, and if you aren’t somewhere that you can catch heals that bounce off the tank you aren’t very high priority.
Edited by Adoresa on 1/3/2014 5:50 PM PST
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90 Troll Druid
2530
Depending on your class I think it varies.

Druids have those AoE heals like crazy and if anyone drops for any reason I'm usually to blame because I forgot about them. But other classes have a harder time, You explain why it's hard to heal them and that they'll need to take a long time in between pulls or be more aware of their surroundings.

That being said

DPS Job is to shake off aggro, CC, and make it easier for the healer to focus on the tank, that means running away from AoE damage and healing their own pets if they can.

Basically, everything happens, you can heal and then tell them to watch where they're standing, let them drop and say you didn't have enough Mana, or suck it up and use all your mana.

Think of it as a test of your abilities for raids or battlegrounds.
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A true healer will do everything they can, use every spell, use all their mana, to keep the group alive.

That is the healer's mentality.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
8540
A true healer will do everything they can, use every spell, use all their mana, to keep the group alive.

That is the healer's mentality.

And sometimes to keep the group alive, you have to just let that guy who refuses to follow mechanics die.
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