Pulling aggro

85 Blood Elf Paladin
4485
Thanks for all the help before I managed to do about 6 dungeons and only caused a wipe 2 times so far, I'm learning.

However I've noticed that I'm pulling aggro away from tanks a lot... I'm not really over healing, I'm casting mostly HS, HL and WoG as needed (on tank mostly but on DPS who take damage as well) even after the mob I have to do some quick heals for everyone to get 100%

i'm not sure if I have to over cast cuz I'm a lower lvl then everyone, or if that's even part of the problem(I know I pull aggro from stuff father away then higher lvls) but when I die, the party wipes

I just got hands of salvation(lvl'ed last night) so I know that should help because it will lower my threat lvl but any suggestions on how to keep this from happening?
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24 Tauren Druid
190
If you're body pulling (pulling because you're lower level and the mobs see you from further away) just try to hang back farther. Also be careful not to be casting a heal while the tank is trying to pull; if he doesn't get his hit in before your heal lands, you start to look like a tasty snack.

Other than that, best you can do is make sure you never turn on Righteous Fury lol.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4485
lol I never ever have righteous fury on I check very carefully because I'm dual spec-ed and it's on my tank bar so before I do healer I make sure it's off lol

I don't start casting till after the tank has aggro so I'm completely it's usually in the middle of the fight that I seem to pull aggro away from the tank and even the DPS it's bizarre and annoying.
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90 Draenei Priest
9510
lol I never ever have righteous fury on I check very carefully because I'm dual spec-ed and it's on my tank bar so before I do healer I make sure it's off lol

I don't start casting till after the tank has aggro so I'm completely it's usually in the middle of the fight that I seem to pull aggro away from the tank and even the DPS it's bizarre and annoying.


Then it's a tank issue.
HoS and running the mobs back to the tank should (I should probably just say "may" since if you're pulling how you say you're pulling, it might not work) help.

Basically the problem is they haven't put any threat up on said mobs. There's not really too much you can do about that.

Edit: I should also state that while you don't have aggro, you'll want to be outside of melee range due to the 110%/130% thing.
Edited by Pzâr on 11/23/2010 7:07 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3210
I've noticed it a fair amount recently myself. It can generally be one of two things:

(1) The tank is inexperienced and simply lacks awareness.

(2) The tank lacks hit/expertise since it's not readily available at your level and thus their AE move occasionally misses. Since tank AE abilities tend to have cooldowns, that means that securing the mobs can be a bit problematic.

Note that overhealing does not generate threat; only the actual amount healed generates threat. On the other hand, casting any buff on the pull (such as Beacon of Light) generates a minuscule amount of aggro that's still bigger than zero and can pull mobs off a tank who hasn't had a chance to hit them yet.

Level is only relevant with respect to how far you can be away from mobs before they notice you (you'll aggro at a much farther range if you're lower level). Once in combat, level has no effect whatsoever on the threat you generate.

As a healer, Hand of Salvation is only useful for yourself when it is glyphed. With the glyph, it will reduce your threat to zero for ten seconds (but you get it all back when the duration expires!). This allows the tank to recover aggro, but is only available once every two minutes.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
7720
I just hit fade and back-peddle if I pull...something I wish all healing classes had. I'll go to hit fade and it won't be there on my druid or pally...atleast shamans have wind shock. Oooooo it helps soo much...
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9220
I usually pull aggro when I heal during or right after a tank pulls. Let the tank get some aggro, even if it means letting him drop in health a bit. If you do pull aggro, remember to heal yourself until it is peeled off you. Don't forget you are a Paladin, you should be able to take a few hits and if things get bad, you can bubble. Don't forget Hammer of Justice, which is good when you or a dps pulls aggro. Stunning the mob will give the team time to deal with it.
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85 Tauren Priest
5875
At your level, I would double-check to make sure your tanks are benefiting from their threat tools.

Make sure if your Warrior is Charging around, that you see the Defensive Stance shield icon pop up over her head immediately afterward. Make sure your Death Knight has the Blood Presence red skull on her buffs, and double-check your Paladin tank for Righteous Fury.

When in doubt, Glyph for Salvation. ;)
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4485
I have had one tank pull the aggro back, the other guy ran away from me :( .... yeah no comment on that. i learned that with my towing experience with my friend if I pull aggro bubble and run toward the tank and heal. (I got yelled at lol)

The problem is most of the people were 67-70, lowly me 65(at the time) getting beat on by lvl 67-69 elites I got maybe 3 hits before I'm almost dead. Even with bubble and LoH which I've had to use on myself I still died(twice) adding to that I'm getting silence or stunned a lot too. I just would imagine if I'm healing way off in the corner keeping myself just barely in my heal range because I am lower lvl I know if I'm close to mobs I pull them.

But thanks we'll see my next time around, maybe I am healing a little too soon. I never thought of using Hammer of Justice either, because I have been doing an excessive amount of healing on DPS. I also need to get the glyph of salvation, like I said I hit 66 right before bed last night so I went back to UC to train:-)

Though I've only healed with 3 different tanks(2 DKs and 1 Pally) maybe it's still a try it till you find someone you mesh with, or something is wrong with my character since I've held aggro after fights are over and the dungeon is complete.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3190
Make sure if your Warrior is Charging around, that you see the Defensive Stance shield icon pop up over her head immediately afterward.


Properly spec'd warrior won't leave defensive stance to charge. No need.

That said, healing should NEVER pull agro once the fight is underway. However, for big AoE pulls, as tempted as it may be to launch into mega heals right away, resist the urge. Let the tank drop some.

I've never had the agro problem with my pally. I have pulled agro with my druid and priest if the tank is pulling quickly and I have HOTs rolling on him as he pulls the next group. However, most tanks generate enough threat quickly to overcome a small HOT.

Golden Rule:
Tank dies = Healer's Fault
Healer Dies = Tank's Fault
DPS Dies = DPS's Fault

Sounds honestly like you have poor tanks, or DPS spec'd tanks that queue as tank to avoid the lines, but without the proper gear, tools, or actual tanking abilities.
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85 Draenei Priest
11670
How are you supposed to cope with this as a resto druid? I've had CONSTANT problems with mobs running past the tank and hitting me in heroics, since I usually pre-hot the tank. Are you just not supposed to do that? It seems incredibly unreliable to have to wait for the tank to take damage and THEN waste the 4 gcds to put all the hots up on him while probably having to weave some direct heals in to make up for the wasted time where the hots weren't on him...are 50%+ of tanks just incredibly horrible or are druids not supposed to prehot the tank?
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84 Human Priest
6510
@OP: Overhealing causes 0 threat. Others suggested already, but to emphasize: timing is the only thing to really learn here. Try not to cast while the tank is pulling or shortly after, when you can avoid it, because mobs are still being positioned/gaining initial threat.

How are you supposed to cope with this as a resto druid? I've had CONSTANT problems with mobs running past the tank and hitting me in heroics, since I usually pre-hot the tank. Are you just not supposed to do that? It seems incredibly unreliable to have to wait for the tank to take damage and THEN waste the 4 gcds to put all the hots up on him while probably having to weave some direct heals in to make up for the wasted time where the hots weren't on him...are 50%+ of tanks just incredibly horrible or are druids not supposed to prehot the tank?


A good tank will have no problem with this most of the time, though any tank can have this problem if circumstances as right (abilities on cooldown, not landing, being stunned/disarmed/cc'ed by the initial pull etc). Unfortunately the reality is that Druid's pre-hotting (appropriate for a lot of content) have a much higher burden for both the tank and healer to play well.

Try: making sure the tank has thorns before he pulls (casting it after body aggro will cause a small amount of "buff aggro" to you, the caster)--thorns glyph is infinitely useful here. Even post-nerf, the tiny ticks of damage are exactly what tanks need to keep that last mob off you during that first hot tick while they're still tab targetting.

Cast Nature's Grasp before a pull or when mobs are running toward you. When they are rooted, move out of range of them. Alternatively, cast roots on a mob that is heading towards you.

War stomp, shadow meld.

If necessary/possible, stop prehotting and instead line up a big heal (lol Healing Touch); waiting for a large health deficit means you're giving the tank the maximum amount of time you possibly can before causing any threat.

Marking a kill target can also help sometimes. If a group runs toward you, it won't help the tank that 3 separate dps are hitting 3 separate targets that he'll have to taunt or otherwise pick up.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13195
@ Gimphealer-
It's best to not pre-hot the tank in random heroics, at least on aoe pulls. It's harder atm for tanks to get aggro on all of them.

OP, are you pulling when you heal the tank, or healing the stupid dps that's attacking the wrong target/attacking before the tank hits it.
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84 Human Priest
6510
@OP: Overhealing causes 0 threat. Others suggested already, but to emphasize: timing is the only thing to really learn here. Try not to cast while the tank is pulling or shortly after, when you can avoid it, because mobs are still being positioned/gaining initial threat.

How are you supposed to cope with this as a resto druid? I've had CONSTANT problems with mobs running past the tank and hitting me in heroics, since I usually pre-hot the tank. Are you just not supposed to do that? It seems incredibly unreliable to have to wait for the tank to take damage and THEN waste the 4 gcds to put all the hots up on him while probably having to weave some direct heals in to make up for the wasted time where the hots weren't on him...are 50%+ of tanks just incredibly horrible or are druids not supposed to prehot the tank?


A good tank will have no problem with this most of the time, though any tank can have this problem if circumstances as right (abilities on cooldown, not landing, being stunned/disarmed/cc'ed by the initial pull etc). Unfortunately the reality is that Druid's pre-hotting (appropriate for a lot of content) have a much higher burden for both the tank and healer to play well.

Try: making sure the tank has thorns before he pulls (casting it after body aggro will cause a small amount of "buff aggro" to you, the caster)--thorns glyph is infinitely useful here. Even post-nerf, the tiny ticks of damage are exactly what tanks need to keep that last mob off you during that first hot tick while they're still tab targetting.

Cast Nature's Grasp before a pull or when mobs are running toward you. When they are rooted, move out of range of them. Alternatively, cast roots on a mob that is heading towards you.

War stomp, shadow meld.

If necessary/possible, stop prehotting and instead line up a big heal (lol Healing Touch); waiting for a large health deficit means you're giving the tank the maximum amount of time you possibly can before causing any threat.

Marking a kill target can also help sometimes. If a group runs toward you, it won't help the tank that 3 separate dps are hitting 3 separate targets that he'll have to taunt or otherwise pick up.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4485
As I said before I'm pulling aggro mid battle. I really should record it as I've been told multiple times "This should not be possible" however I assure you it is happening to me. (Not just here by friends who heal as well on my server)

Actual battle

Me: Far behind everyone else. Tank pulls aggro, little red thing pops up on the grind. Cast BoL, and HS. Wait a few seconds, checking for DPS aggro and health, start cast on HL(whoever is most in need). Usually I'll say I got 5 heals in(usually just before or after WoG) I pull aggro.

I'm standing in the doorway against the wall, the attacks come from the front. I run toward the tank heal with HS(because even at 10% health my HS on myself fully heals me) cast divine shield but for some reason even when I do this and I'm near the tank or even a DPS who attacks, I still manage to keep aggro.

I did not have HoS because it's not available till 66, I got it last night but I'm completely baffled at how I continue to pull aggro, in holy spec, without righteous fury on or even attacking anything(we're lower level and a lot of us are still learning so I know someone said I'll be using my judgments eventually for haste but I dunno not there yet)

The only thing I can think of is the higher lvl Pally's in the raid are casting HoS on themselves or someone else or if another class as something to drop threat?(No idea really I'm still trying to learn my class)

I hope I'm not coming off as really snotty or witchy, that's really not the intent. I'm just confused
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85 Human Rogue
9000
You wouldn't happen to have really pissed off a hunter or rogue at some point that runs with you a lot, would you....?

>.>

In all seriousness, though, either you are experiencing some threat bug that I have never heard of and only touches you, or your tanks are just incredibly awful. Over and over again.
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86 Draenei Shaman
10785
Misdirect and tricks aren't a factor for the OP because they aren't available yet.
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