Prot Paladin Questions

85 Tauren Paladin
3670
Hi! I'm somewhat new to the world of paladin tanking. While I do think a lot of what a paladin does when tanking is pretty straightforward, there were a few things that I'd like to get some clarification on by looking at what the rest of the paladins out there are doing.

First, a few talent questions:

Reckoning: Currently I'm using it, but is it actually useful at all? If I remember correctly, it wasn't a desirable tanking talent before 4.0.

Sacred Duty: For reasons I cannot remember, I took Reckoning instead of this talent. How does this talent compare to the other talents available in the prot tree (Reckoning, Eternal Glory, Hallowed Ground)? It just seems rather lackluster for a T6 talent.

Eternal Glory: To me it seems like a no-brainer if you use WoG semi-frequently, so I suppose this question is more or less centered around WoG. Is WoG used enough to make this talent useful?

And now a few "rotation" based questions. I do understand the CS/HoR->filler->CS/HoR->filler->CS/HoR-> Spend HP concept, I suppose I just have a few questions about the priority of the filler abilities.

Avenger's Shield vs Shield of the Righteous: Sometimes I run into the situation where when I proc my 3rd HP my Avenger's Shield is off cooldown. In a single target situation, which is more important to use first? Currently I prioritize using SotR first, then AS, the go back into the normal "rotation." Is this optimal, or is there a better way to do it?

Judgement vs Holy Wrath: I am pretty sure that Holy Wrath is better for single target threat, but Judgement also insures that I never run out of mana. Which is more important to use? Is it necessary to judge on every CD to keep mana up, or is it more important to Holy Wrath for the threat (or am I stupid and Judgement is actually more threat than HW)?

And one more question regarding an awkward position I find myself in sometimes. Because CS and HoR can proc Grand Crusader, I almost always make sure to use AS when it is off CD before I use CS and HoR so I don't waste procs. The awkward situation is that I am rather hard on my keyboard (I spam my buttons), and sometimes by the time I see that AS' CD has been reset I have already either used Judgement or HW. Is it more important in that situation to use the AS on the GCD following the mistimed Judge/HW, or to use CS or HoR next to keep up HP generation?

I think that's about it. Note that most of these questions are concerned with various PvE settings (dungeons/raids) and not PvP. Also I am new to Prot Pally, not the game. Feel free to give complicated answers, they probably will only go partially over my head =D.

Thanks and <3s to all who answer!
Reply Quote
80 Draenei Paladin
7925
Just answering two of these.
Judgement vs Holy Wrath: I am pretty sure that Holy Wrath is better for single target threat, but Judgement also insures that I never run out of mana. Which is more important to use? Is it necessary to judge on every CD to keep mana up, or is it more important to Holy Wrath for the threat (or am I stupid and Judgement is actually more threat than HW)?

Judgement every time. It has a 50% chance to proc a crit shield which destroys mobs. Remember HW hits for the same no matter how many targets.

And one more question regarding an awkward position I find myself in sometimes. Because CS and HoR can proc Grand Crusader, I almost always make sure to use AS when it is off CD before I use CS and HoR so I don't waste procs. The awkward situation is that I am rather hard on my keyboard (I spam my buttons), and sometimes by the time I see that AS' CD has been reset I have already either used Judgement or HW. Is it more important in that situation to use the AS on the GCD following the mistimed Judge/HW, or to use CS or HoR next to keep up HP generation?
AS first because theres always a chance you will proc another free AS with HoR and it would've gone to waste.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
16130
https://sites.google.com/site/matlabadin/4-0-1/401_talent_dpsppt.png
from http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=6&t=29317&rb_v=viewtopic
The graph shows the relation of different threat stats and how they compare.

I'd go to Maintankadin and subscribe to the relevant forums. Lots of good info and guides there, and constantly being updated. Every time Blizz changes your class, the contributors there do the math that tells us noobs how to play.

It's counter-intuitive, but Grand Crusader is an awful threat stat in its current implementation. I recall GC saying they intended to change it, but I haven't seen it in notes for 4.03a.

Now, to your specific questions:
1) Yes, Reckoning is very good now as a threat stat.
2) Sacred Duty is one of the very best threat stats because it buffs your biggest hitter.
3) Eternal Glory is a toss-up. I use 1/2 as a filler stat. I use WoG alot on heavier fights, but rarely get a benefit from EG proc. Definately not wasted here. I'd move points here since Protector of the Innocent (holy) is being nerfed.
4) SotR>AS, Judg>HW
5) Again Grand Crusader is actually hurting your tps/dps. It SHOULD improve your tps if it were designed better, but what actually happens is you prioritize GC procs and leave the higher-tps 939 rotation and wind up pushing back your Judgement and Sacred Duty proc'd SotR.

Again I can't stress the value of maintankadin and elitist-jerks enough. You're not wrong for thinking Grand Crusader would be a good threat stat. You want to throw your shield cause like you say, you don't want to waste the proc. The proc was already wasted when you put talent points into it, others simply did the math behind it to prove its a TPS decrease.
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
6435

Again I can't stress the value of maintankadin and elitist-jerks enough. You're not wrong for thinking Grand Crusader would be a good threat stat. You want to throw your shield cause like you say, you don't want to waste the proc. The proc was already wasted when you put talent points into it, others simply did the math behind it to prove its a TPS decrease.


Just a slight nit pick. Using AS CORRECTLY (as your filler over HW) is a TPS increase. Using it whenever it procs is a TPS loss. AoE wise...the talent is godly.
Edited by Xayton on 11/23/2010 10:06 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
16130
I only meant taking the talent was a TPS loss. Did GC see any change in 4.03a? I didn't notice one but I was busy reforging to try (and come short) at block-capping again.
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Paladin
3670
Thank you all so much for answering the questions. All the info and links were very helpful (especially the links, I shoulda just checked the math when I had questions in the first place). Somewhat disappointing to see that GC is actually a TPS loss, but I suppose it does allow me to use AS more situationally, instead of every time it's off CD.

P.S. I am really the OP, couldn't resist rolling Tauren pally...or choosing a rather RPish name.
Reply Quote
10 Gnome Rogue
50

Reckoning:


It's actually useful now that white damage is threat multiplied


Sacred Duty:


with some vengeance ShoR hits like a truck


Eternal Glory:


depends, which is why it's not quite standard


Avenger's Shield vs Shield of the Righteous:


ShoR


Judgement vs Holy Wrath:


unless you're low on mana (you shouldn't be) HW, but if you're doing it right you use both pretty much on cooldown


Grand Crusader


It's a trap!

it messes up the rotation.

Still good for PvP, but not so much for PvE
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]