Is healing at 85 fun?

85 Blood Elf Paladin
4725
Cata where every fight is a dps race, there is no other type of encounter anymore.

Basicly the dps will get blamed for killing themselves, the healer will get blamed for wiping the raid.


This has not been my experience in Beta. The majority of all boss fights in raids last 6-10 minutes. With Innervates, Potions, and the like, we can last 10 minutes -- if people don't stand in fire. If we go OOM because they stood in fire maybe we shoud let them die. The loss of a DPS is a blow but no longer are fights dependent on max DPS to win. There will be savings on mana consumption by not keeping them alive and you'll have fewer targets to heal. It should balance out.

Being "Good" in Wrath as DPS was about staying where you were to do maximum damage, even if it was standing in a fire. Healing in Cata is like being Evil from the movie Spaceballs: "Evil will always win over Good because Good is dumb."
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3 Human Warrior
0
The loss of a DPS is a blow but no longer are fights dependent on max DPS to win. There will be savings on mana consumption by not keeping them alive and you'll have fewer targets to heal. It should balance out.


Hard Modes much?

Being "Good" in Wrath as DPS was about staying where you were to do maximum damage, even if it was standing in a fire. Healing in Cata is like being Evil from the movie Spaceballs: "Evil will always win over Good because Good is dumb."


.... just, no. Just because your idiot DPS stood in fires and you healed them through it with the 30% buff doesn't mean it's what "goods" did. Go watch early (0-5%) HM kills, their DPS aren't jacking off in the fires to do "maximum damage".

Why is it that 90% of the people saying WotLK was a complete joke haven't done any of the hard content? Seriously, no one cares that you had an easy time doing normal mode, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE EASY. Not that they were the hardest fights ever to heal, but most late HMs at 0% were challenging (Put, Sind, LK <20%), and so were fights like Firefighter and Knock x3.
Edited by Tiberias on 11/23/2010 9:50 PM PST
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24 Tauren Druid
190
Why is it that 90% of the people saying WotLK was a complete joke haven't done any of the hard content? Seriously, no one cares that you had an easy time doing normal mode, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE EASY.


Because 90% of the people saying WotLK was a complete joke couldn't devote themselves to the 20 hours a week most hard mode guilds require, and instead tried to find enjoyment in normal mode raids. While it may be that noone cares if a normal mode is easy, a very large number of people care if normal mode is boring. Naturally, since there are so many that care, many post. If that bothers you, perhaps you could find a forum that caters specifically to hard mode players, rather than the entire population of wow players as these boards do.

That said, I've never healed DPS through standing in fire in any of the normal mode raids I've done (I don't pug much either), so I don't support that statement. I do support the discussion of the implications of mechanics in normal mode raids.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4725
Why is it that 90% of the people saying WotLK was a complete joke haven't done any of the hard content? Seriously, no one cares that you had an easy time doing normal mode, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE EASY.


Because 90% of the people saying WotLK was a complete joke couldn't devote themselves to the 20 hours a week most hard mode guilds require, and instead tried to find enjoyment in normal mode raids. While it may be that noone cares if a normal mode is easy, a very large number of people care if normal mode is boring. Naturally, since there are so many that care, many post. If that bothers you, perhaps you could find a forum that caters specifically to hard mode players, rather than the entire population of wow players as these boards do.

That said, I've never healed DPS through standing in fire in any of the normal mode raids I've done (I don't pug much either), so I don't support that statement. I do support the discussion of the implications of mechanics in normal mode raids.


Bingo.

Also, I will be looking to do hard modes but the game isn't about hard mode. That is there for a niche group. Also, I was clearing 9/12 ICC 25 Hard Mode in June and wasn't coming close to mana loss nor did we have trouble with healing in general -- save for the the mechanics that are being changed which I listed in an earlier post in this thread (see: tank takes too much dmg in such a short period of time that lag > skill > gear).
Edited by Tammarion on 11/24/2010 7:23 AM PST
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85 Human Paladin
8485
Why is it that 90% of the people saying WotLK was a complete joke haven't done any of the hard content? Seriously, no one cares that you had an easy time doing normal mode, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE EASY.


Because 90% of the people saying WotLK was a complete joke couldn't devote themselves to the 20 hours a week most hard mode guilds require, and instead tried to find enjoyment in normal mode raids. While it may be that noone cares if a normal mode is easy, a very large number of people care if normal mode is boring. Naturally, since there are so many that care, many post. If that bothers you, perhaps you could find a forum that caters specifically to hard mode players, rather than the entire population of wow players as these boards do.

That said, I've never healed DPS through standing in fire in any of the normal mode raids I've done (I don't pug much either), so I don't support that statement. I do support the discussion of the implications of mechanics in normal mode raids.



I can honestly say that it does not take you devoting 20 hours a week to do hardmodes. I have been in two guilds that only raided two nights for a few hours for those people who didn't have time for the hardcore raiding. With two days a week, sometimes only one day a week we managed to clear 12/12 hardmodes. I do agree that a lot of content was easy as we progressed though ICC, a lot of it was challenging too. Maybe your MT was sick and you used a replacement, obviously that makes things harder. Same thing goes for a lot of people in a raid. Ok, so the content might have been harder for some, did you have fun? This is a game, isn't that what should matter?
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85 Tauren Druid
5160
No FSR, no Downranking. The only way you have to mana manage is choosing which spell to cast and when. In theory this makes healing interesting and fun. In practice we'll see. I foresee a return to "you heal group 1 I'll heal group 2 and you heal the tank" along with buffer druid heals and healer infighting about clipping.
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85 Tauren Druid
5160
Congrats on having guild mates that could show up continually. Not all of us have 10/25 people who can all show up each week at the same time every week. I did 25 man hardcore raiding and ended up taking a 9 month hiatus because I got sick of prepping all week just to do one boss fight.
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85 Troll Druid
9685
Because 90% of the people saying WotLK was a complete joke couldn't devote themselves to the 20 hours a week most hard mode guilds require, and instead tried to find enjoyment in normal mode raids. While it may be that noone cares if a normal mode is easy, a very large number of people care if normal mode is boring.


I can honestly say that it does not take you devoting 20 hours a week to do hardmodes. I have been in two guilds that only raided two nights for a few hours for those people who didn't have time for the hardcore raiding. With two days a week, sometimes only one day a week we managed to clear 12/12 hardmodes. I do agree that a lot of content was easy as we progressed though ICC, a lot of it was challenging too. Maybe your MT was sick and you used a replacement, obviously that makes things harder. Same thing goes for a lot of people in a raid. Ok, so the content might have been harder for some, did you have fun? This is a game, isn't that what should matter?


Cases like yours are why I said most; some of my own guildies got their 10man drakes at least, so even my guild could probably do hard modes with different attendance and raid leader focus. In fact, you support my point - fun is what should matter, not the difficulty. That's why the "hard modes weren't boring" argument frustrates me; the game is supposed to be fun for a variety of players, not just people people who do hard modes.

Anyways, can't wait for Cata to release so I can see what it's really like. :) One week!
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91 Blood Elf Paladin
9375
Healed OS in Wrath before my guild broke up (buggers :p), so can't speak too much to the raid stuff except I have 7-9 friends now playing WoW, so maybe we can bust out some 10 mans. ^_^ I wish it was 70% guild attendance instead of 75%, though...)

For my part, I'll probably only heal for my friends for a while. I might heal some while leveling, but otherwise I'll probably wait a month for healing PuGs/LFD other than once to do the related quests or if an instances is just a ton of fun.


Realistically, this isn't going back to Vanilla/BC because we can't downrank for cheaper mana costs or cast times. So it's not the same.


That said, it's different. The thing is, it's REALLY different and we're all used to Wrath. Cata's fight mechanics, bosses, even trash will be different. This means we, tanks, healers, and DPS alike, will all have to have a paradigm shift.


Tanks are going to be responsible for knowing fights, knowing when to use their CDs for mitigation, and will have DBM standard (even moreso than now.) They are once again going to be group/raid LEADERS instead of just the guy with the shield. The Tank will need to call the pull, control the mobs, even the direction they're facing and LoS issues.

DPS are going to have to relearn that they have a CC button (or two!), and they're going to have to start using them. There IS an agro reset "O rly?", and they're going to need to use them. (DKs need one badly, but at least they have plate.) DPS will need Omen again. They MAY even have reason to level First Aid!

Healers are going to have to learn a lot. The problem is, unlike tanks and DPS, it's not clear at the moment WHAT. It's easy to see how DPS will change (agro dumps and CC, don't break the CC, watch your threat.) It's somewhat easier to see how tanks will work (call target order, learn fights to use mitigation CDs as appropriate, ect.)

...but healers aren't as clear. All we REALLY know is that heals will be weaker compared to mana pools, we'll run out of mana faster and more easily, and so "choices will matter", which isn't at all clear unless you've had the privilege to run Beta content. Hint: I haven't.


However, I have a friend that got into Beta, didn't do raids, but did do 5 mans. He described the same healer distress that Tammarion mentioned. He chose to mostly DPS instead. Many other healers may do this.

...but, he also described healing in Beta with the word triage. He said it's more like fighting a war. A desperate war, a losing war.

In Wrath, we see the green bars go down. We make them go back up.

In Cata, we'll see the green bars go down. We can slow the rate they're going down...but we can't stop them or make them all green again. It's like a losing war, like hanging from a cliff face, holding on to a piece of grass, and that grass is slowly being pulled out of the ground by its root.


The job of a "healer" is no longer to heal. We aren't healers anymore.

We're "preservers". We attempt to slow the deaths of those around us, to give THEM time to turn the tide of battle. Our healing is more subtle, our magic more subdued. More like a Druid (or like the Elven magic in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.)

And this will take people some getting used to.


As a healer, you WANT to see people at 100%. The mindset is it's your job to keep everyone healthy.

But as a preserver, you realize that this isn't possible. You try to buff, triage, and prop them up long enough that you can defeat the enemy. After that, you can all collapse around a campfire and eat a grand feast.


The mission of a tank - know the enemy, predict their moves, direct your forces to greatest advantage.
The mission of a DPS - eyes open, be aware of the enemy and the battlefield, control the enemy, control yourself.
The mission of a preserver - keep everyone alive as long as you can, as efficiently as you can, to give them as much time as possible to complete their mission and defeat your enemies.
The mission of the team - take down dragons, demons, and elemental lords, then collect the shinies from their lifeless forms.


A healer/preserver's job is no longer to heal everyone, it's to buy them the time they need to do what you all need them to do.



And, while I am iffy about the mechanics of the game accomplishing this as things are right now, I do think that sounds hella fun. ^_^

...the questions are, will the other 4/9/24 people in my groups/raids feel the same way, and will the mechanics work out that we CAN do it?

The first speaks to the blame we'll receive. The second to whether or not it's deserved...
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91 Blood Elf Paladin
9375
EDIT: Blah! Double post for some reason.
Edited by Arthinas on 12/1/2010 5:15 AM PST
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- World of Warcraft
100 Night Elf Druid
13480
It feels more like Burning Crusade healing, only we have to do more than just spam 1 or 2 buttons.
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100 Night Elf Druid
16080
It feels more like Burning Crusade healing, only we have to do more than just spam 1 or 2 buttons.


I don't know any healers, or at least any that had any margin of success at the role, that just spammed one or two buttons in BC. What we did have, that this model totally lacks, is a collection of tools to dynamically control our own mana like downranking and fsr, and effective heals. "Slow, efficient but ineffective" 60-75% of the time just doesn't cut it for fun. We're still spamming one button most of the time, it's just a different, far less satisfying button.
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85 Night Elf Priest
4425
I'm not on beta and im sure ill still have tons of fun with Cata but from what I have read in other posts, logs, blogs:


We're still spamming one button most of the time, it's just a different, far less satisfying button.


Is kinda how I feel too.
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85 Worgen Priest
10245
.

Spirit's now everyone's regen stat, but the 5SR is gone, and the state of wrath healing is mostly unchanged.


Did you miss the part where regen is nerfed to the ground as you level up, and that wrath style healing is probably never going to happen again?
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85 Human Paladin
3440
honestly, i cant wait for this.. i look forward to 'working' in Cata, and deserving my "great heals" compliment, lol. Healing now is like a...(thinking of a clever analogy)... cant think of one.. but its too easy.
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85 Goblin Shaman
5440
I enjoyed the urgency of healing in Wrath. I'm suspecting I'll get very bored playing a healer in Cataclysm. It sounds like it's going to operate similar to low level 5 mans do now. Spam a really slow, weak heal on the tank that costs very little mana, and only use your quick, hard hitting and expensive heals when something goes wrong. So bascially you'll play like my ele shaman did in BC. 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1, 2!......1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
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