No recruitment bumping?!?!?

(Locked)

85 Undead Warlock
0
I like that fact that my guilds recruitment officer was banned for bumping our recruitment thread. When he questioned this ban he was directed to a Blue post about not 'bumping' that was posted a dozen hours after his last bump.

If you guys are going to mass ban people for this it is a terrible terrible idea. Since you are doing a complete 180 on your stance regarding this issue it would have been prudent and much more respectable had you handed out a round of warnings to make people aware of the change.

This change will single handedly hold back guild progression on a scale far superior than alot of their previous efforts. There is simply not enough talent on single servers (besides very high pop) to support any number of 25 man raiding guilds, meaning if we can't recruit off server effectively then this is just another push from Blizzard trying to get everyone into 10 man raiding.

Which is ludicrous. I understand that you guys hate having to create each set of content two times over (for 10 and 25) but please stop trying to actively destroy 25 man raiding.
Edited by Gutrot on 11/23/2010 5:18 PM PST
100 Night Elf Death Knight
7565
First I have to agree with all the above statements. I would put my own 2 cents in about how this "new" policy is going to destroy guild recruitment (at least on these forums) but it looks like it has been mostly covered.
but please stop trying to actively destroy 25 man raiding.

25 mans aren't going to be the only ones suffering. Small tight-nit guilds such as the one I am running are going to suffer as well. With a very limited roster we are always having to actively recruit. And these forums are the place where we have had the most luck. Considering the size of our server and the quality of guilds here (as well as the fact that we do not raid on tues) wow-progress is no good to us for a recruitment tool. I support the idea of a LFG(uild) tool system on the forums. Or perhaps coming to a compromise where blizz allows for bumping every "x" hours.

Edit: Just for an example of how quickly our threads are going to be unoticed do to being back so far on pages. Less than an hour and My Post is 1/2 way down page 2 ... Within the next hour It might as well not exist if I can't bump it.
Edited by Jugglla on 11/23/2010 6:23 PM PST
85 Troll Druid
11080
I'll just do my recruitment elsewhere. The forums just arent worth the time anymore.
85 Draenei Shaman
9490
As one of the people effected by one of the 24-hour bans for merely bumping our recruitment post... I can entirely share in everyones frustration of this.

I immediately sent an e-mail to Blizzard, not asking for the ban 'removal' but for an explanation of WHY some threads with the word "Bump" or anything remotely similar, aren't all being banned and flat out deleted (Our recruitment post was literally deleted when I received the ban, not sure on everyone elses). On top of that I asked for what they expect us to do to recruit and keep exposure on the recruitment forums. Seeing as they essentially more than doubled the amount of posts in this area by combining horde and alliance recruitment, then restricting bumping (like I know everyone has posted) what they intend us to do?

My response was a generic copy and paste garbage of "You should know the rules, read the post here" with a link to the do not bump post, WHICH my e-mail contained a link to originally saying I HAD read it but was wondering the logic behind it... So on top of this, the customer service we're receiving in handling this is pure garbage.

This really requires more of a "Blue" response than a mere "Do not do it". Recruitment is something that can be so frustrating and difficult as is, I thought they were trying to make Cataclysm more guild friendly and more guild focused, but this change just flat out makes it even harder to keep a healthy guild roster.

I really have to wonder if the team that decided this or individual, has ever even tried to do or watch the recruitment ordeal for a guild? It would seem not as this is obviously as many of you are pointing out, making it next to impossible to recruit.

If there is any kind of idea on people actually reading the posts after the initial recruitment post, then someone is in a very delusional world. While SOME people may look out of boredom, the majority of people actively looking for a guild is NOT going to bother looking at the next several posts as the information they need is in the initial post and is typically kept CURRENT AND UPDATED by the guilds BUMPING THEM. Meaning it isn't irrelevant and it isn't useless information. They see the guild is recruiting XYZ Class, determine if their class is one of them, look for the looting procedures, raid times, the guilds progression and any other little information they can including the guild website. If that CLICKS with them they MAY very rarely look further down the page, but typically not, they'll either go to the site and apply or close the tab and continue to the next recruitment post and repeat the process of checking the FIRST POST. So the idea of actual useful conversation being required to be posted on a thread in THIS forum for that... is flat out stupid.

The idea of posting an 'update' to the guilds needs and saying something like "We are still recruiting shamans, paladins and rogues" or anything of that nature, while it is less 'bump' spam style, it is not really something that is going to be READ as people assume the initial post is current like stated above...

Wake up blizzard, you're doing NOTHING but frustrating nearly everyone that uses these forums by doing this. Yes the old forums made your eyes bleed from how much text was there, but they were at least serving a purpose of giving recruitment exposure to guilds and being able to keep theirself in the limelight so to say. Now, you've not only accomplished making the forums still bulky and clustered looking by COMBINING the recruitment threads for horde and alliance, but you take away the bumping ability? Do you HONESTLY think things through or do you just say ZOMG bright idea light bulb looks bright over my head when you're just in a very dark room with literally no other source of light, when if you stepped out into the real world with other peoples lightbulbs lighting up, it wouldn't even appear to be lit up? Cause this poor decision makes it seem like you just come up with an idea, like it and go with it vs thinking about what will result of it.

That said, my suggestion would be make the forums have an actual recruitment search and listing base, make it so you can search for specific classes much like wowprogress's thing, but also make it forum like. Make a recruitment section for primarily pvp guilds and pve guilds, roleplay guilds, and so on. Break it up and you will find EVERYONE LOVES YOU.
90 Undead Warlock
8785
As someone who has recruited from the old version of this forum for a very long time all I can say is that a typical recruitment thread gets ~3 views per "bump." That's not 3 apps, that's not 3 new members that's three people just clicking on the title of your post. Why would any recruitment officer in their right mind waste the time making a post here for 3 views...
85 Worgen Hunter
9880
this no bumping rule is rediculous, and it isnt even being enforced equally. there are several posts that have been active for days, with several "bump"s added in the last 24 hours. seriously blizz this is the one forum that shouldnt have the bumping restriction. just take a maintenance bot or whatever it is you use and delete any recruitement post that is over a week old and you keep your forum to a vaguely managable size with only guilds ACTIVELY recruiting still on it.
85 Troll Druid
11080
this no bumping rule is rediculous, and it isnt even being enforced equally
Atleast I'm not the only one who sees this.
85 Goblin Rogue
7985
What boggles my mind is that here we have Blizzard, some of the best and brightest developers both in-game and in terms of web-applications -- and yet there is no web-based or in-game application to advertise/recruit/apply for the guild mechanic.

There's no need to create a search engine and the forum recruitment is antiquated -- we have both of these already.

As it's already been mentioned, please create an application within the community site that offers advertising and allows guilds and players to filter/search/view (gasp perhaps even apply/express interest) using the elements they are looking for based on key metrics such as:

Progression
History
Guild Size
Raid Schedule
Server Type, Timezone
Faction
PVP Ranks
and so forth...

While other sites have already created such applications they will not have the draw nor advertising capability to draw players from all walks of life, hosting it here is the most logical and the most effective solution.

It's boggled my mind since 2005. Success in MMO's are entirely dependent on creating a community. Help us help you blizzard.

Edited by Ceebs on 11/23/2010 8:38 PM PST
90 Human Warlock
11875
Personally I don't think we should have to come up with things to say to get out the point that we're serious about recruiting or looking for more players. It seems they want a nice "clean" forum then maybe they need to consider that it shouldn't be a "forum". They need to get their developers developing a better way for guild recruitment, like an earlier poster said, we're fighting sheer numbers here to get seen. If I can't bump my thread, how do I get my guild noticed so I can get my roster ready for Cata?!

We need to keep this post going to so while they're scanning through our potential spam they can see how actively we care about their excessive control over the forums.
85 Troll Druid
TG
6365
This was the worst idea ever, Blizzard. Fix it.
85 Human Warrior
5700
I'll just do my recruitment elsewhere. The forums just arent worth the time anymore.


Where exactly would this be? Thanks.
85 Troll Druid
11080
I'll just do my recruitment elsewhere. The forums just arent worth the time anymore.


Where exactly would this be? Thanks.
Not many places. Its more of me looking at people using WowLemmings and contacting them that way. I can't sit here reading through 50 pages trying to find one person because a player looking for a guild can't bump, and a guild looking for players can't bump.

But here are the normal Guild Recruitment links

http://www.lookingforguild.net/
www.recruit-gamers.com
http://lfguild.com/ <--pretty amazing
Edited by Foofy on 11/23/2010 11:15 PM PST
85 Draenei Paladin
10635
About **** time you guys saw this guideline.
Geez. No, it's not being enforced equally. There are guilds out there that get away with it unless they're reported.

For the time being, I've come to find out that posting smaller details about our guild, updates and things of that nature, is what they're looking for. They're trying to prevent 12 pages of pure "bump".

Do I agree with this rule? No, of course not. Saying "bump" is much easier than having to think of something to say. But I do agree with what Blizzard is trying to do (prevent spam). I just think they went about it the wrong way.
85 Gnome Mage
11510
What an absurd and ridiculous rule. Newsflash, Blizz: This isn't a discussion forum. This is a place for advertising. Why is anyone going to create a recruitment thread and then let it fall off to the 50th page, where NOBODY is going to be able to see it (hence removing the whole point of, you know... recruiting)? What are we supposed to do then, create a whole new thread? Or just deal with getting applications ONLY from the 15 or so people who a) see our thread, b) take the time to read our thread, and c) decide that they're interested in the guild.

As an ex-recruitment officer, it's become extremely clear that the Blizz employees who created that rule have never attempted to keep their guild afloat via advertisement. Spend a week in the shoes of any recruitment officer and then back up that regulation.

Until this is changed, I will take my future recruitment elsewhere, and I encourage everyone else to do the same.
85 Troll Druid
11080
Shamless plug for

http://lfguild.com/

Need more people! Has some pretty good tools!

/highfive!
81 Orc Shaman
2980
Blizz should really create some type of Guild recruitment interface to make Guild recruitment much easier for everyone.
85 Draenei Shaman
9490

For the time being, I've come to find out that posting smaller details about our guild, updates and things of that nature, is what they're looking for. They're trying to prevent 12 pages of pure "bump".

Do I agree with this rule? No, of course not. Saying "bump" is much easier than having to think of something to say. But I do agree with what Blizzard is trying to do (prevent spam). I just think they went about it the wrong way.


Thing is about this is it is pretty much pointless to post anything past the first post as people expect that initial post to be updated (which it is going to be if the people are caring enough to bump it, they're caring enough to keep it accurate). No one reads the babble below it. Which yes, you could say is because they don't expect anything below it... but honestly unless the person is extremely bored, all they are initially caring about with finding a guild is:

Finding raid times that fit their needs (always in the first post)
Finding progression that fits where they want (always in first post)
Finding a guild that is actively recruiting their class and spec (always in first post)
Finding out about loot distribution, whether it's a form of DKP or loot council (always in first post)

Past that, I guess you could learn what kind of people they are, but most guilds have a guild charter on their main page explaining that, which is accessible via a link in the initial post... people aren't going to search through 2-3 pages of one single guilds recruitment discussion, people don't often look past page 5 or so on here.

These new forums are roughly a month old now (not fully) it looks like there are posts from Nov 5th on them as the earliest, but, I know myself and many others just became aware of them with the closing of the other forums (or inability to post on them) these have quickly gotten more attention, we have 35 closing in on 36 pages of threads on here in that time... the majority seem to have happened the week of the 16th when the old forums became outdated and unable to be kept current for posts as. Back on page 32 there's posts from the 16th of november, aka last tuesday.

There's 50 threads PER PAGE so 32 pages back... that's roughly 1600 threads posted in a week that have pushed those to the back pages... ok, a week and 1600 threads ahead of your recruitment thread that's a week old that can't be bumped... that's on average 228 threads a day being posted each day of the week, so in one day your post is back on page 4 and half way down it... this means your post is relevant and having a chance of being read for at maximum 2 days before it starts getting overlooked for being too far back on the pages... and honestly these forums ARE NOT as active yet as the old ones as I'm sure not everyone has seen them yet and this is not prime time recruitment between expansions as the wave of players is not here yet...

Not to mention if the post the person was bumping got deleted (like mine did) and I'm sure MANY others... that would put the forums back even further. They aren't thinking with this rule on a recruitment forum.

Essentially to put it simple for blizzard's eyes, it'd be like any TV station saying to Blizzard you can only advertise once a week on our station... once a week! So pick that one time and then forget any additional advertising for you because we don't want you spamming our viewers with information about your product... it's the same concept here with guilds not being able to advertise.

You see a guilds post once you might not look at it real close, perhaps it's a close fit but you're still debating on guilds and then you lose that guilds post because of it getting buried or you just don't know if they filled the slot yet as they can't keep it around in a place you can see it, perhaps you're just TOYING with the idea of leaving your guild... hundreds of reasons can apply to this. Point is the more you see something, the more likely you might be to give some more thought to purchasing or trying it.
85 Tauren Priest
7590
Well,

Forums are really not (or no longer I should say, with this new rule) the best way to find players or find a guild. Perhaps they are the only way at the moment, but that doesn't mean it's the best way.

I think Blizzard could make some sort of addition to the armory that can help players (consequently helping guilds) find a guild that suits them.

Maybe some sort of filters, a search function. Something that allows the player to look for a guild based on some characteristics like:

*Level required to join?

*Type of guild?
Hardcore, casual, etc. Maybe set it in a way that Guild Masters can determine what kind of guild they run. However, people could lie and a leveling guild may show up as a progression guild. Find a way for the system to determine whether the guild is progression oriented or not? Achievements, level, average iLvL of the members, a mix of all those?

* Recruiting X class (Or make it role. "Recruiting X Role" Damage, heal, tanking, because if you can only set it to a class it'd be pointless, for example a guild looks for a Resto Druid, not for a Feral druid..?)

What else does a player wants to know about a guild before joining? Well, these 3 things are the most important. After checking the filters, you'd get a list of guilds sorted by:

* Amount of members

* Faction

* Level or Relevance

?

When you click on a guild, maybe let the Guild Master of the guild set a website (www.myamazingguild.com - showing more information about the guild) so that it is shown when someone clicks on the link for a guild. The Guild Master of course would also have to set up some settings. What is their "Level required to join" - "Classes/Role needed" etc, so that the system can match the players with the guild.

And for new players or casual players blizz could set up an automatic guild search function or something. The system would find a guild that suits the selected character based on average iLvL, level, progression achievements,..?

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/9969/idea.jpg

Edited by Ernestolol on 11/24/2010 12:58 AM PST
100 Night Elf Death Knight
7565
this means your post is relevant and having a chance of being read for at maximum 2 days before it starts getting overlooked for being too far back on the pages


This is incorrect. My last post in my thread is 8 hours old and on page 5 now ........ 8 hours and I have lost the ability to get the exposure i need to recruit properly through these forums. Honestly it was probably a good 2-3 hours, or more, ago I lost that ability. This is rediculuse...
85 Draenei Shaman
9490
this means your post is relevant and having a chance of being read for at maximum 2 days before it starts getting overlooked for being too far back on the pages


This is incorrect. My last post in my thread is 8 hours old and on page 5 now ........ 8 hours and I have lost the ability to get the exposure i need to recruit properly through these forums. Honestly it was probably a good 2-3 hours, or more, ago I lost that ability. This is rediculuse...


I like your point! I was being umm... nice or light I guess with what I said. I entirely believe it :). Thanks for pointing it out tho, maybe someone will read this and do something...
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