Holy Shock

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90 Draenei Paladin
4260
Welcome to "Healing like Other Healers do 101."

Except we don't. By that reasoning, Beacon and mana-free LoD should be on their way out too.

I'm going to assume that in most cases, a powerful instant heal is more potent than say, a HoT that'll heal for the same amount, just over time.

I respectfully disagree with this assumption.

They heal for relatively the same thing.

What does? HS and .... ?

Trust me, come Cata when you're healing heroics and the weekly, you'll do fine.

It's hard to tell if you're being patronizing; but, yes, I'll be fine. Earlier in the thread I even mentioned that we could lose HS entirely and, with a little tweaking, be fine.





90 Draenei Paladin
4260
I'm still getting about 5K every holy shock. Add in the holy power and the shortened casting time for the next holy light (from my set bonus), it's still a good place to start

That's about what I'm getting too; and since it still has SOME use, I propose the following change to it's name and description:

Holy Expired Medicine

Generates Holy Power and heals your target, but not for as much as it did a year and half ago when you bought it.
Edited by Alcara on 11/25/2010 8:21 AM PST
- World of Warcraft
85 Tauren Paladin
6700

Except we don't. By that reasoning, Beacon and mana-free LoD should be on their way out too.

Do you have another healer? Do you even know? I have all healers, and I can say with some comfort that we're in a pretty good spot at the moment.
I suppose that you hadn't considered that the nerf to Shock probably just didn't come from the fact that it was really strong, either. You just listed two very good reasons why it could be.
Don't forget we have a smart heal now.


I respectfully disagree with this assumption.

It really depends on the situation.


What does? HS and .... ?

Riptide?


It's hard to tell if you're being patronizing; but, yes, I'll be fine. Earlier in the thread I even mentioned that we could lose HS entirely and, with a little tweaking, be fine.


Joke's on you. We already are fine. H Paladins are at a great spot now, even after the Shock nerf. We don't have an exact reason why HS was touched. I am only hypothesizes reasons as to why it was nerfed. I could be complete wrong. I could be completely right. I could be completely left field and find out it's a mistake.

I am, however using logic and reason behind what I'm saying. You won't get patronizing remarks if only you used the same logic and reasoning behind your posts. I.E. Not this one:


That's about what I'm getting too; and since it still has SOME use, I propose the following change to it's name and description:

Holy Expired Medicine

Generates Holy Power and heals your target, but not for as much as it did a year and half ago when you bought it.
Edited by Practical on 11/25/2010 8:42 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8995
Welcome to "Healing like Other Healers do 101."


If their goal is for paladin to heal like other healers do where is my hot and targeted aoe heal? Or my mana cooldown that doesn't nerf my heals by 50%?

That comment shows why it is sad to nerf holy shock, it's what makes us different from the other healers.

Holy Shock alone did not make holy paladins very mobile and very difficult to counter in pvp. It was a combination of protector of the innocent, eternal glory procing over and over, blessed life giving tons of holy power for Word of Glory, and people having very small health pools so that even 1 holy power word of glory hits for a significant percentage of health. None of that will be in for level 85, and it all happened at once.
- World of Warcraft
85 Tauren Paladin
6700


If their goal is for paladin to heal like other healers do where is my hot and targeted aoe heal? Or my mana cooldown that doesn't nerf my heals by 50%?

That comment shows why it is sad to nerf holy shock, it's what makes us different from the other healers.

Holy Shock alone did not make holy paladins very mobile and very difficult to counter in pvp. It was a combination of protector of the innocent, eternal glory procing over and over, blessed life giving tons of holy power for Word of Glory, and people having very small health pools so that even 1 holy power word of glory hits for a significant percentage of health. None of that will be in for level 85, and it all happened at once.


Healing like other healers in difficulty does not translate to having their exact same tools. You out of all people should know that comparing apples to oranges when it comes to flavor is nothing but futile.

You're very right however about HS not being the only contributing factor on why it could have been nerfed. It was a culmination of things. They fixed those things, and along with that they nerfed HS. It's still not a bad spell. I use it even now, but I use it at different times for different purposes depending on that situation.

You should really get over the green number that you see coming from HS and look at the value of HS overall. It's hard to argue that it's a bad spell.
90 Draenei Paladin
4260
Riptide?

... the same Riptide that heals instantly AND has a HoT on the end of it?

Joke's on you. We already are fine.

You're an odd duck.

I am, however using logic and reason behind what I'm saying. You won't get patronizing remarks if only you used the same logic and reasoning behind your posts. I.E. Not this one:

*rolls eyes* Yes. CLEARLY I've said nothing logical or reasonable this entire post. Even my attempts at frivolity are as the insane ramblings of drunken conspiracy theorist with a traumatic brain injury. THANK YOU for coming in here and straightening me out. If only we could get you on some sort of government task force; you could take care of North Korea, fix Ireland's economy, AND make sure no colostomy bag ever gets patted down too hard!
- World of Warcraft
85 Tauren Paladin
6700

... the same Riptide that heals instantly AND has a HoT on the end of it?

Has a hot that is pretty weak, and not only that but RT is used with CH in the same manner we use HS with HL/DL.


You're an odd duck.

This is constructive!


*rolls eyes* Yes. CLEARLY I've said nothing logical or reasonable this entire post. Even my attempts at frivolity are as the insane ramblings of drunken conspiracy theorist with a traumatic brain injury. THANK YOU for coming in here and straightening me out. If only we could get you on some sort of government task force; you could take care of North Korea, fix Ireland's economy, AND make sure no colostomy bag ever gets patted down too hard!

No problem, I'm only helping one <Champion of the Frozen Wastes> achiever at a time.

On a serious note, you say that your posts were QQ, and now resort to satire to illustrate that at some point you were really being constructive. Not only do I find this idiosyncratic because it's a contradiction, but I should point out that the only real opinion that isn't QQ is "I Don't like Holy Shock." Otherwise pretty much everything you wrote is just ammo for you to complain.

Welcome to the forums, there's a distinct line between voicing your opinion ("I don't like the change to HS and here's why...") and un-constructive, crying, QQ posts that hold no water to them whatsoever ("We should rename HS to something blatantly original, such as a bandaid because I think it's so poo!")
Edited by Practical on 11/25/2010 9:15 AM PST
83 Human Paladin
2585

On a serious note, you say that your posts were QQ, and now resort to satire to illustrate that at some point you were really being constructive. Not only do I find this idiosyncratic because it's a contradiction, but I should point out that the only real opinion that isn't QQ is "I Don't like Holy Shock." Otherwise pretty much everything you wrote is just ammo for you to complain.


if you don't think her opinion is worthwhile or holds water, why not address the other people who have posted? i've given examples for why removing its potency is a bit of a head scratcher, such as: what other viable heals are there for battlegrounds, if the only people who can heal are wearing cloth or leather and dying before they can get a heal off? remember, this game isn't just level 80+, it's also the 79 levels that come before it. lol

and for the record, i'm not drunk :D
Edited by Compash on 11/25/2010 9:29 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8995
Healing like other healers in difficulty does not translate to having their exact same tools. You out of all people should know that comparing apples to oranges when it comes to flavor is nothing but futile.

You're very right however about HS not being the only contributing factor on why it could have been nerfed. It was a culmination of things. They fixed those things, and along with that they nerfed HS. It's still not a bad spell. I use it even now, but I use it at different times for different purposes depending on that situation.

You should really get over the green number that you see coming from HS and look at the value of HS overall. It's hard to argue that it's a bad spell.


You started the comparisons Practical.

I would really like to know what these different times for different purposes are. I still use it to generate holy power, I just enjoy it a whole lot less. Instead of using holy shock to heal, I feel like I'm using it to fulfill my rotation and reach word of glory/light of dawn.
- World of Warcraft
85 Tauren Paladin
6700

You started the comparisons Practical.

I would really like to know what these different times for different purposes are. I still use it to generate holy power, I just enjoy it a whole lot less. Instead of using holy shock to heal, I feel like I'm using it to fulfill my rotation and reach word of glory/light of dawn.


Incorrect. I asked a rhetorical question to for an answer that was obvious: There wasn't a spell that healed for as much as HS, and offered as much value overall then (including it's buffs). Apologies if that wasn't clear. Thus is the interwebs.

I can respect you not enjoying it as much. I get that. If you FEEL like you're using it to generate HP then I can't change the way you feel. I however, see it for what it is and use it for plenty of situations where I see fit. Basic things, for example:

-HM Rotface where a lot of movement is required. If I see someone that needs to be dispelled, and I can afford to heal someone on the run, I'll use HS and follow up with a quick HL.
-HS the Main Tank as it generates HP. Quickly heal the OT if I'm focusing on the tanks.
-Using it as my "I should heal that guy now and I need to buy time" heal.
-Typical Mobile Heal (I'm moving. Can I heal this guy? Yes. How much can I heal him for? Holy Light's amount. Cool. HS is off CD, lets use it.").
-To generate HP.

If you're finding yourself in any of these situations, then you're not 'just' using it for HP. You're using it the way it's probably intended to be (assuming this HS nerf is here to stay and for any reason whatsoever).
I see it as an incredibly versatile spell that has a lot of potential to be good. What I'm not understanding is the only difference from you calling the spell fun to not so fun is a numerical difference. It's not even a mechanic. It's literally the numbers.

And really I would have a problem with the numbers if were were in a dire state at the moment, but we're not.


if you don't think her opinion is worthwhile or holds water, why not address the other people who have posted? i've given examples for why removing its potency is a bit of a head scratcher, such as: what other viable heals are there for battlegrounds, if the only people who can heal are wearing cloth or leather and dying before they can get a heal off? remember, this game isn't just level 80+, it's also the 79 levels that come before it. lol

and for the record, i'm not drunk :D

I do not PVP nearly as much as I should, and thus won't comment on facets of PVP that I have no knowledge or insight on.

Especially pre-80 PVP.
Edited by Practical on 11/25/2010 9:56 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8995
Welcome to "Healing like Other Healers do 101."


Not a question, rhetorical or otherwise.

I can respect you not enjoying it as much. I get that. If you FEEL like you're using it to generate HP then I can't change the way you feel. I however, see it for what it is and use it for plenty of situations where I see fit. Basic things, for example:

-HM Rotface where a lot of movement is required. If I see someone that needs to be dispelled, and I can afford to heal someone on the run, I'll use HS and follow up with a quick HL.
-HS the Main Tank as it generates HP. Quickly heal the OT if I'm focusing on the tanks.
-Using it as my "I should heal that guy now and I need to buy time" heal.
-Typical Mobile Heal (I'm moving. Can I heal this guy? Yes. How much can I heal him for? Holy Light's amount. Cool. HS is off CD, lets use it.").
-To generate HP.


It's not as fun because it's not the right heal for the job anymore. I should be casting another heal, but I have to cast Holy Shock instead to generate holy power. That is a mechanic change if you think about it.

The situations you describe are the same for Holy Shock and some of them I disagree with. For instance using a heal that heals for less than Holy Light when you need to "buy some time" is a losing proposition (just as it always was with holy shock). Flash of Light would do a better job. Your other "situations" are the same (mobile healing/generating holy power) and one of them, mobile healing, is directly effected by the nerf to holy shock.

Infusion of Light is not a reason to cast holy shock. I doubt it equals out to more hps now, and it definitely won't at 85 when our crit rating plummets.

Unless it's actually more hps to generate holy power by casting beacon on each target you want to heal, we are still going to cast holy shock on cooldown in order to generate holy power.
83 Human Paladin
2585
well i can tell you that the scariest thing to have in a battleground before the dk arrival in the 50's bracket and the ultra op subtlety rogue at level 19 and up , is a healing paladin who actually heals and doesn't waste time or mana on dpsing. most paladins combine dpsing and healing in battlegrounds. but a holy paladin only healing, is gonna take advantage of any fast cd and/or instant heals they have because that is literally their reason for being there: healing. healing on the run (as you mentioned in your post about hm rotface) is pretty much the only way to heal in a battleground right now, anyway, because if you stand still, you're gonna be stunned/meleed, till you're dead. believe me, the amount of damage people take in battlegrounds is worse than most bosses in the game (incoming damage vs. health, that is).

that's just an overview, btw. so imagine you're a mage and your job is to dps, you go in to the battleground and have only one fast cd instant cast spell, and it barely does any damage and there's no way to increase it's strength. as a dps you'd be less than thrilled, because you know that means you have to stand still and cast (the downfall of most casters is that they HAVE to stand still in order to be effective) and the meleers take full advantage of it, because they don't have to stand still.

i think that's what you're looking at here - people who are less than thrilled that their only means to succesfully heal (and it is success/failure we're looking at) under high damage situations has been nerfed a bit too much.

85 Blood Elf Paladin
5805
Holy shock heals for less than Holy Light, but is also an instant versus a 2.5 second cast... On top of generating holy power without healing the beacon. It sucks that it got nerfed, but it's definitely still worth using.
- World of Warcraft
85 Tauren Paladin
6700


Not a question, rhetorical or otherwise.

I said that because he said he had to use more than one spell to heal someone fully. Lots of healers just can't use ONE ability to hit for like 13K and do it's job and more.


It's not as fun because it's not the right heal for the job anymore. I should be casting another heal, but I have to cast Holy Shock instead to generate holy power. That is a mechanic change if you think about it.

So now it's more of a utility spell. Is that bad?


Infusion of Light is not a reason to cast holy shock. I doubt it equals out to more hps now, and it definitely won't at 85 when our crit rating plummets.

Unless it's actually more hps to generate holy power by casting beacon on each target you want to heal, we are still going to cast holy shock on cooldown in order to generate holy power.


I think we'll have to wait till 85 to see if that holds to be true. Just because beta is over, it doesn't mean class tuning is. We still have a long ways to go.
83 Human Paladin
2585

So now it's more of a utility spell. Is that bad?


well you should probably try out the 19-78 battlegrounds first, before reaching your ultimate conclusions. i mean, those are part of the game, and the people who play in those parts of the game, also pay to play, and also pve (well most of them do, anyway). then ask the question if it's good that it's now only a utility considering the amount of damage coming in, in battlegrounds. even with very high stamina, boas, and plate armor, i would still get ambushed for half my hp in one hit. if i didn't keep moving, the other half would be next. lol either we are able to replace the missing half, or within a second or two, the other half goes and we're dead. it isn't a gradual thing. they know this. they know you can't have bosses not hitting for as much so lower heals are reasonable, VS. damage going up in battlegrounds with the same lower heals. these things are not in agreement with each other.
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