Guarded by the Light nerf way to high

85 Human Paladin
6435
Again, if someone can't understand how PotI + GbtL + WoG was extremely OP for Prot pallys they were doing something wrong.

3HP Heal = about 12k
PotI Heal = about 4.5k
Total Heal = 16.5k

WoG Overhealing (Making up numbers for the sake of argument) = About 5k

Tell me how that is not OP when you can spam that for no mana.
Edited by Xayton on 11/24/2010 12:35 PM PST
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85 Human Paladin
6435
I'm pretty sure Potl wasn't insignificant when you can spam 1 HoPo WoG back to back and heal yourself enough to maintain through a good amount of damage.

And yes I used overexaggeration to explain the trade-off, and it is obvious mages do a lot of damage, thank you for pointing out the obvious. But you obviously are completely ignorant to how powerful Potl was.

There is a reason they nerfed healers instant cast healing.


Yes that 3K heal every 5 seconds is enough to withstand being focused by 4 other people.......lol get out.
Crusader Strike is on a 5 second cooldown?

Damn, when did that nerf come into play!


Prot has a 3 seconds CS cooldown. As a result you can only WoG every 4 seconds.

3 sec CS + 1 sec GCD = 4 seconds.
Edited by Xayton on 11/24/2010 12:48 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
8315
There is a lot of focus on PotI here for a discussion on Guarded by the Light.

Point here is. 2 talent points for +10% = suck. That should be a 1 pointer at best now. +60% was still questionable for 2 points.

GbtL is just a terrible talent now. It needs to be 1pt, in which case I still will not spend points on it or it needs some other benefit. Right now, the only reason to take it is to have holy shield proc off WoG. I guess in combination with other talents you could use your 2 min CD divine plea to 3 HP a WoG to get a very short time damage shield before a pull. But that just seems like a very very narrow & unneeded use-case.

In summary: GbtL was ok. Now is very bad.
Edited by Mered on 11/24/2010 1:20 PM PST
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85 Human Paladin
6435
There is a lot of focus on PotI here for a discussion on Guarded by the Light.

Point here is. 2 talent points for +10% = suck. That should be a 1 pointer at best now. +60% was still questionable for 2 points.

GbtL is just a terrible talent now. It needs to be 1pt, in which case I still will not spend points on it or it needs some other benefit. Right now, the only reason to take it is to have holy shield proc off WoG. I guess in combination with other talents you could use your 2 min CD divine favor to 3 HP a WoG to get a very short time damage shield before a pull. But that just seems like a very very narrow & unneeded use-case.

In summary: GbtL was ok. Now is very bad.


You are 100% wrong. The overhealing shield is amazing and WoG's healing is exactly the same due to a net buff it got.
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90 Human Paladin
8315
You are 100% wrong. The overhealing shield is amazing and WoG's healing is exactly the same due to a net buff it got.


I get 90% without the talent. I stand by my analysys. I have better things to spend my points on.
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85 Human Paladin
6435
You are 100% wrong. The overhealing shield is amazing and WoG's healing is exactly the same due to a net buff it got.


I get 90% without the talent. I stand by my analysys. I have better things to spend my points on.


You analysis it way off. 2/2 GtbL heals as much as it did with it at 60%. You are just angry it is 10%. Besides the overhealing shield is make makes GtbL as good as it is. You have no basis for your argument.
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Again, if someone can't understand how PotI + GbtL + WoG was extremely OP for Prot pallys they were doing something wrong.

3HP Heal = about 12k
PotI Heal = about 4.5k
Total Heal = 16.5k

WoG Overhealing (Making up numbers for the sake of argument) = About 5k

Tell me how that is not OP when you can spam that for no mana.


Because you're trading a 16K damage attack for a 16K heal? Go ahead and make up numbers all you want, but the heal on WoG should be roughly equivalent to the damage ShoR can deal. If one is significantly weaker than the other, the decision becomes pretty straightforward in PvP. I guess the only real question becomes are you balancing WoG at full resilience or 0 resilience. The other issue with the PotI nerf is even if it was OP at 80, it doesn't seem like it was going to scale well at 85 anyway. Again, probably OP for Holy, but not so much for Prot or Ret.

I'm not going to disagree 100% on the value of the Shield portion, but I'd kind of like to see some actual numbers to justify it's benefit. Basically, it seems that the benefit of the overheal shield is directly proportional to the amount of time you're healing while at or near full health. Given that Blizz has stated that they intend for players(whether tanking or in PvP) to spend more time in a "wounded" state, that is, not the current 100% hp or dead scenario, it seems like the value of the overheal shield is going to errode significantly as we approach 85.
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85 Human Paladin
6435
Again, if someone can't understand how PotI + GbtL + WoG was extremely OP for Prot pallys they were doing something wrong.

3HP Heal = about 12k
PotI Heal = about 4.5k
Total Heal = 16.5k

WoG Overhealing (Making up numbers for the sake of argument) = About 5k

Tell me how that is not OP when you can spam that for no mana.


Because you're trading a 16K damage attack for a 16K heal? Go ahead and make up numbers all you want, but the heal on WoG should be roughly equivalent to the damage ShoR can deal. If one is significantly weaker than the other, the decision becomes pretty straightforward in PvP. I guess the only real question becomes are you balancing WoG at full resilience or 0 resilience. The other issue with the PotI nerf is even if it was OP at 80, it doesn't seem like it was going to scale well at 85 anyway. Again, probably OP for Holy, but not so much for Prot or Ret.

I'm not going to disagree 100% on the value of the Shield portion, but I'd kind of like to see some actual numbers to justify it's benefit. Basically, it seems that the benefit of the overheal shield is directly proportional to the amount of time you're healing while at or near full health. Given that Blizz has stated that they intend for players(whether tanking or in PvP) to spend more time in a "wounded" state, that is, not the current 100% hp or dead scenario, it seems like the value of the overheal shield is going to errode significantly as we approach 85.


I am not exactly sure what you are getting at.
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90 Tauren Paladin
4495
I'm pretty sure Potl wasn't insignificant when you can spam 1 HoPo WoG back to back and heal yourself enough to maintain through a good amount of damage.

And yes I used overexaggeration to explain the trade-off, and it is obvious mages do a lot of damage, thank you for pointing out the obvious. But you obviously are completely ignorant to how powerful Potl was.

There is a reason they nerfed healers instant cast healing.


Yes that 3K heal every 5 seconds is enough to withstand being focused by 4 other people.......lol get out.
Crusader Strike is on a 5 second cooldown?

Damn, when did that nerf come into play!


GCD doesn't exist in your fantasy land, mage?

Also Xayton, your argument really holds no water. When mages are running around hitting people for 35-40K a hit, is that 20K heal really going to be that effective?

Now if we were talking Holy paladins that 20K turns into numbers a lot more effective. Pre-nerf I saw our guild's holy pally throwing out WoG's for upwards of 40K.

Though, I could see some QQ over this, seeing as how sometimes, talented, WoG will not consume Holy Power. Which COULD mean back to back WoG's, which would be over powered. I think they should have changed the Talent in the Prot tree if this was really the issue.
Edited by Bullwurk on 11/24/2010 3:32 PM PST
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90 Tauren Paladin
4495
Lol at this thread

Prot is fine in PvP, QQ more


I don't think anyone has said it wasn't.
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85 Human Paladin
6435
I'm pretty sure Potl wasn't insignificant when you can spam 1 HoPo WoG back to back and heal yourself enough to maintain through a good amount of damage.

And yes I used overexaggeration to explain the trade-off, and it is obvious mages do a lot of damage, thank you for pointing out the obvious. But you obviously are completely ignorant to how powerful Potl was.

There is a reason they nerfed healers instant cast healing.


Yes that 3K heal every 5 seconds is enough to withstand being focused by 4 other people.......lol get out.
Crusader Strike is on a 5 second cooldown?

Damn, when did that nerf come into play!


GCD doesn't exist in your fantasy land, mage?

Also Xayton, your argument really holds no water. When mages are running around hitting people for 35-40K a hit, is that 20K heal really going to be that effective?

Now if we were talking Holy paladins that 20K turns into numbers a lot more effective. Pre-nerf I saw our guild's holy pally throwing out WoG's for upwards of 40K.

Though, I could see some QQ over this, seeing as how sometimes, talented, WoG will not consume Holy Power. Which COULD mean back to back WoG's, which would be over powered. I think they should have changed the Talent in the Prot tree if this was really the issue.


Wait where does my argument hold no water? I haven't even purposed a real argument...other then pointing out that WoG + GbtL heals for the same it used to, and that PotI was OP. And as a side note...I still consider GbtL to be a bit OP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXXjyN4oO1I

Carry on.
Edited by Xayton on 11/24/2010 3:44 PM PST
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90 Tauren Paladin
4495
I'm pretty sure Potl wasn't insignificant when you can spam 1 HoPo WoG back to back and heal yourself enough to maintain through a good amount of damage.

And yes I used overexaggeration to explain the trade-off, and it is obvious mages do a lot of damage, thank you for pointing out the obvious. But you obviously are completely ignorant to how powerful Potl was.

There is a reason they nerfed healers instant cast healing.


Yes that 3K heal every 5 seconds is enough to withstand being focused by 4 other people.......lol get out.
Crusader Strike is on a 5 second cooldown?

Damn, when did that nerf come into play!


GCD doesn't exist in your fantasy land, mage?

Also Xayton, your argument really holds no water. When mages are running around hitting people for 35-40K a hit, is that 20K heal really going to be that effective?

Now if we were talking Holy paladins that 20K turns into numbers a lot more effective. Pre-nerf I saw our guild's holy pally throwing out WoG's for upwards of 40K.

Though, I could see some QQ over this, seeing as how sometimes, talented, WoG will not consume Holy Power. Which COULD mean back to back WoG's, which would be over powered. I think they should have changed the Talent in the Prot tree if this was really the issue.


Wait where does my argument hold no water? I haven't even purposed a real argument...other then pointing out that WoG + GbtL heals for the same it used to, and that PotI was OP. And as a side note...I still consider GbtL to be a bit OP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXXjyN4oO1I

Carry on.


using the most unbalanced bracket to justify your bad case about the nerf for Prot and Ret?

I expected more from you Xayton.
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85 Human Paladin
6435
I'm pretty sure Potl wasn't insignificant when you can spam 1 HoPo WoG back to back and heal yourself enough to maintain through a good amount of damage.

And yes I used overexaggeration to explain the trade-off, and it is obvious mages do a lot of damage, thank you for pointing out the obvious. But you obviously are completely ignorant to how powerful Potl was.

There is a reason they nerfed healers instant cast healing.


Yes that 3K heal every 5 seconds is enough to withstand being focused by 4 other people.......lol get out.
Crusader Strike is on a 5 second cooldown?

Damn, when did that nerf come into play!


GCD doesn't exist in your fantasy land, mage?

Also Xayton, your argument really holds no water. When mages are running around hitting people for 35-40K a hit, is that 20K heal really going to be that effective?

Now if we were talking Holy paladins that 20K turns into numbers a lot more effective. Pre-nerf I saw our guild's holy pally throwing out WoG's for upwards of 40K.

Though, I could see some QQ over this, seeing as how sometimes, talented, WoG will not consume Holy Power. Which COULD mean back to back WoG's, which would be over powered. I think they should have changed the Talent in the Prot tree if this was really the issue.


Wait where does my argument hold no water? I haven't even purposed a real argument...other then pointing out that WoG + GbtL heals for the same it used to, and that PotI was OP. And as a side note...I still consider GbtL to be a bit OP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXXjyN4oO1I

Carry on.


using the most unbalanced bracket to justify your bad case about the nerf for Prot and Ret?

I expected more from you Xayton.


I still have no idea what you are specifically getting at. I consider GbtL and PotI OP for PvE, I really don't give a rat's *** about PvP. I just put that video there for laughs. <3
Edited by Xayton on 11/24/2010 4:09 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
8315
Did you watch the video you posted? WoG is powerful for healing others. And as anyone can clearly see in the video that overheal damage shield potion is irrelevant. He is never using WoG to overheal.

Guarded by the Light plays no role into this usefulness.
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85 Human Paladin
6435
Please read all posts before you post.

I still have no idea what you are specifically getting at. I consider GbtL and PotI OP for PvE, I really don't give a rat's *** about PvP. I just put that video there for laughs. <3
Edited by Xayton on 11/24/2010 4:09 PM PST
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85 Draenei Paladin
3115
This thread wasn't about PVE (dungeons and raids) or PVP. It was about soloing, something I enjoy on this paladin, and I thought there should be a talent that is specifically tuned for soloing paladins, and to use it for something else would be stupidity. It would be hard to implement, but a real boon to us who solo old content.
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