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taking this from Arielle because it's getting lost in the thread it was initially posted due to random trolls/other classes of tanks blah blah blah

Swipe Math:

I'm seeing some really wierd stuff. Of couse this is all assuming the tooltips are actually accurate.

Tooltip damage with 4928 AP: 995
Actual damage with 4928 AP: 508
Tooltip damage with 4768 AP: 969
Actual Damage with 4768 AP: 494

AP Difference: 160
Tooltip Damage Difference: 26
Tooltip AP Coeff: 0.1625*100/120 (conversion) = 0.135416 - Wtf?!?

Actual Damage Difference: 14
Actual Damage Coeff: 0.0875*100/120 (conversion for 2pct10) = 0.073 which matches EJ.

So my top end actual damage is 508*100/120 = 423.333333
4928 * 0.073 = 360 damage from AP.
423 - 360 = 63.

That's an awfully small base damage component for a level 80 ability.

I think the base scaling for Swipe (Bear) is stuck at level 1.

Sorry, had to math that out before I went to bed. It was bothering me.

Edit: Anyone have a low level Druid they can use to Confirm/Deny this for me?

Again thanks to Arielle.

So basically it is a bug in the base damage. Bugs happen. Not something to say the sky is falling or that you are going to quit over.

Thank-you Arielle for the numbers and the cool head, and by extension Honch for posting this in a fresh thread and Yshh for linking the source.

Edit: I just hope people realize that the damage, when fixed, will be much lower than it was on live prior to this bug.

Sometimes I really just want to start snapping people's necks.

Then someone like Honch comes along and makes me feel all better.

<3

Liking thread.

I'm guessing that Swipe will go the way of ShoR with buffed base damage and lower scaling coefficents, reaching a lowered 85 damage while not harming lower level instancing, or perhaps they already did (since their nerf looks exactly like the warlock changes) and the live base damage is just broken.

I'm guessing that Swipe will go the way of ShoR with buffed base damage and lower scaling coefficents, reaching a lowered 85 damage while not harming lower level instancing, or perhaps they already did (since their nerf looks exactly like the warlock changes) and the live base damage is just broken.

I think it's likely this. With 30,000 AP (random number I pulled out of my butt) at 0.073 + 2872 you end up with Swipe hitting for 5000 and critting for 10000 (give or take). Add Swipe threat coeff and you get absolutely ridiculous amounts of AoE threat even before Thrash and tab-Lacerate / Mangle.

Makes me wonder what they plan to do with Shockwave and Concussion blow being that they are (or were last I checked) 75% AP damage. That would make them most potent abilities around once you factor in maxed Vengeance.

Makes me wonder what they plan to do with Shockwave and Concussion blow being that they are (or were last I checked) 75% AP damage. That would make them most potent abilities around once you factor in maxed Vengeance.

Nerf them. Nothing must upset the almighty Vengeance.



Nice job figuring this out, Arielle.

Arielle, I did FoS over lunch (my AP is close, 992 is my tooltip swipe damage) and was seeing the same ~500 damage to single targets, the Spectral Wardens, and against a target dummy.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kilrogg/senorbjorn/

I will not have a chance until tomorrow (or Friday if I pass out from beer/turkey consumption), perhaps someone here who is interested in seeing this fixed should file a bug report on that forum.

I will not have a chance until tomorrow (or Friday if I pass out from beer/turkey consumption), perhaps someone here who is interested in seeing this fixed should file a bug report on that forum.

Already did. It's been lost in the sea of bug reports. Assuming they stick to their claim that they read all of them, I'd like to believe it'll get fixed shortly.

Yeah, I thought as much. I've talked to Reesi via Twitter and she saw the same sort of stuff in her raid last night.

I'll take combat logs of my Heroic ICC10 tonight for more math, but I'm pretty sure base damage coeff scaling is the issue.

Well if it's like any other help desk, this is pretty easily reproducable, so someone will probably cherrypick it to boost their numbers :D How long it takes to fix, well that depends on whether it's hot-fixable, relative game impact to other issues, and how long the turkey (or Tofurkey if they're vegans) hibernation is at Blizzard.

Well if it's like any other help desk, this is pretty easily reproducable, so someone will probably cherrypick it to boost their numbers :D How long it takes to fix, well that depends on whether it's hot-fixable, relative game impact to other issues, and how long the turkey (or Tofurkey if they're vegans) hibernation is at Blizzard.

Well they hotfixed the same problem for Rogues with backstab. I don't see how this would be any different.

Of course I don't know how they did it so I'm probably just talking out of my butt right now.

Good news. I'll be able to post more math later tonight.

Cross-Posting:

So I have some more math from a level 46 Feral (thankfully someone had an alt).

However it isn't really concrete proof of anything other than something is hinky with Swipe scaling. Also I can't rule out Vengeance screwing stuff up since it's hard to set up a situation where someone under level 80 is hitting something else of the same level that won't hit back. Additionally I have no idea what the armor calculations are.

So here we go:

Tooltip Damage with 718 AP: 115
Actual Damage with 718 AP: 96
Tooltip Damage with 680 AP: 109
Actual Damage with 6680 AP: 92

AP Difference: 38
Tooltip AP Coeff: 6/38 = 0.1579
Tooltip AP -> Damage: 113?
Base Damage -> 2?

Actual Difference: 4
Actual AP Coeff: 4/38 = 0.1052
Actual AP -> Damage: 75?
Base Damage -> 21?

Possible Theories:

1) AP coeff scaling is on some sort of log scale that caps out at a 0.073 average.
2) Base Damage Modifier does scale, but its scaling has been horribly, horribly nerfed in some fashion.
3) Some combination of the two.

I really need a better sample size to figure out what is going on here. Or possibly somebody that's better at math than I am (Fasc? :) )

Now I'm just confused.

Yes this does lead to the reasoning....

Who the heaping heck thought it was a good idea to put a patch of this size live two days before thanksgiving.

its probably not going to get fixed till next week at the earliest.

Is armor being considered here?

Is armor being considered here?

No. I don't know how much armor the level 80 dummies in IF have, or I could adjust my calculations accordingly.

The 2nd part (my guildie) I have no idea what he was even hitting. I just wanted some numbers. So Vengeance could be affecting those numbers as well and I'd never really know.

Unfortunately I don't really want to level another Druid just to 36 to find out if I'm right or not.

I was hoping someone here would have some sort of alt they could test on. :(

Best I can do is a 31 or 32 druid :(

EDIT: Anyone on Dreadmaul wanna help me level? :D

Reesi is levelling her Troll as we speak. I should be getting some more data from her sometime tomorrow.

Edit:

She also pointed out I should try a low level Training Dummy. I'm heading to Elwynn now to see what happens.